 |
SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
|
 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:51 pm Post subject: What Kerry told the Washington Star in 1971 |
 |
|
In the Washington Star on June 6, 1971, Kerry is quoted: "We established an American presence in most cases by showing the flag and firing at sampans and villages along the banks. Those were our instructions, but they seemed so out of line that we finally began to go ashore, against our orders, and investigate the villages that were supposed to be our targets. We discovered we were butchering a lot of innocent people, and morale became so low among the officers on those 'swift boats' that we were called back to Saigon for special instructions from Gen. Abrams. He told us we were doing the right thing. He said our efforts would help win the war in the long run. That's when I realized I could never remain silent about the realities of the war in Vietnam."
I am stilly dying to learn who was Kerry's CO who was relieved of duty and who was refusing orders. Rememeber he was on the Cavett show saying:
MR. KERRY: Well, I hardly think the second really merits that much discussion - I'm not sure - that much discussion or consideration.
The fact of the matter is that the members of Coastal Division 11 and Coastal Division 13 when I was in Vietnam were fighting the policy very, very hard, to the point that many of the members were refusing to carry out orders on some of their missions; to the point where the crews started to in fact mutiny, say, "I would not go back on the rivers again;" the point where my commanding officer was relieved of duty because he pressed our objections to what we were doing with the captain in command of the entire operation.
MR. CAVETT: The man above you was relieved of duty?
MR. KERRY: That is correct. The man above me was finally relieved of duty. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: What Kerry told the Washington Star in 1971 |
|
|
| The bandit wrote: | I am stilly dying to learn who was Kerry's CO who was relieved of duty and who was refusing orders. Rememeber he was on the Cavett show saying:
MR. KERRY: Well, I hardly think the second really merits that much discussion - I'm not sure - that much discussion or consideration.
The fact of the matter is that the members of Coastal Division 11 and Coastal Division 13 when I was in Vietnam were fighting the policy very, very hard, to the point that many of the members were refusing to carry out orders on some of their missions; to the point where the crews started to in fact mutiny, say, "I would not go back on the rivers again;" the point where my commanding officer was relieved of duty because he pressed our objections to what we were doing with the captain in command of the entire operation.
MR. CAVETT: The man above you was relieved of duty?
MR. KERRY: That is correct. The man above me was finally relieved of duty. |
Yes, I remember when this first came up - I was hoping that one of the Swifts founders would poke in and possibly explain this Kerry-ism. Any chance of that happening?
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rbshirley
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: What Kerry told the Washington Star in 1971 |
|
|
| Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: | Yes, I remember when this first came up - I was hoping that one of the
Swifts founders would poke in and possibly explain this Kerry-ism. |
Not a "founder" just a "signer"
How can you explain something that did not happen?
Both of Kerry's Commanding Officers were part of the news conference that
questioned his competence to be Commander-in-Chief. Neither came close
to being releived of command for any reason.
And how many times do we have to repeat the truth:
"Swift Boat sailors did NOT commit the acts Kerry accuses in these statements"
As one of Kerry's own crewman commented on such outrageous pronouncements:
| Quote: |
When he got back to the States he goes in with the Vets Against and I felt
betrayed. I really think he was just seizing the opportunity to get political
support from his State and how he interpreted their feelings.
|
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: What Kerry told the Washington Star in 1971 |
|
|
| rbshirley wrote: | | Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: | Yes, I remember when this first came up - I was hoping that one of the
Swifts founders would poke in and possibly explain this Kerry-ism. |
Not a "founder" just a "signer" |
Same thing - good enough for me, anyway. 
| Quote: | | How can you explain something that did not happen? |
That's what I thought - but it's always good to get it straight from the horse's mouth.
The last time I saw the discussion, the question had come up, (I think I may have been the one who asked it, with regard to this Dick Cavett transcript) but no one seemed to say for certain that it wasn't true.
| Quote: | | Both of Kerry's Commanding Officers were part of the news conference that questioned his competence to be Commander-in-Chief. Neither came close to being releived of command for any reason. |
What a vile thing it is, then - that this allegation been allowed to stand out there, unchallenged, all this time. Was it repeated in "Tour of Duty?"
| Quote: | And how many times do we have to repeat the truth:
"Swift Boat sailors did NOT commit the acts Kerry accuses in these statements" |
Sadly, the answer to your question is, "As many times as the truth is challenged. As many times as Kerry lies. As many times as Kerry drops an innuendo."
You guys may be far busier than you might have anticipated.
I've watched the Swift's press conference many times. In the first viewing, they completely convinced me that they were honest, sincere and that their new organization was exactly what they represented themselves to be. I watched it repeatedly to jot down details and names and such to help with my own research.
Unfortunately, not many people saw the Swift's conference, unless they happened to be c-span viewers.
The press conference was given very little ink or air-time, and what little coverage it did get, smeared the Swifts, themselves!
Dan Blather's piece was particularly reprehensible, but even Fox news seemed to come down on Kerry's side in their initial coverage of this issue.
Since then, Fox has given more thorough coverage to the Swifts protest, but in the last interview I saw, they let the Kerry representative shout down and overrun the points being attempted by the Swifts representative. (Sorry, the memory cells aren't firing, today - don't remember either of their names.)
So, dear rbshirley, my answer for you probably isn't very encouraging, but I'm telling it to you as straight as I can.
If you've read many of my other posts you know that I believe that John F'n Kerry:
1. Aided and abetted and negotiated with the enemy illegally,
2. That he engineered the WSI as an anti-war device,
3. That he profited monetarily from the normalization of relations with the government of Vietnam, even though that meant that he had to betray over 2100 of our POW/MIA's and their families to do so, and
4. That he was instrumental in causing an entire generation of soldiers to be marginalized and slandered.
You'll also know that I will neither forgive nor forget. EVER.
I just hope that the Swifts group is working on something that will grab people's attention and make them think - something that bypasses the partisan press and goes straight to the people.
Because not many people have heard their message, so far. Not nearly enough.
I offer these comments with overwhelming gratitude for your service and the highest regard for all of you with the courage to sign that letter.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: What Kerry told the Washington Star in 1971 |
|
|
| Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: |
3. That he profited monetarily from the normalization of relations with the government of Vietnam, even though that meant that he had to betray over 2100 of our POW/MIA's and their families to do so, and
|
How about someone proving this. For once I'd like to see something other than a mention in a letter from Michael Benge, or some other source that has an ax to grind.
Something as big as this multi-million/billion dollar contract should be easy to track down. It would be a big coup for the anti-Kerry side if such a thing could be accomplished.
How did he profit? Give me some provable specifics.
The fact is, unfortunately, that there are no POWs in Vietnam. Would that there were, but there aren't. Kerry took on a thankless task -- he knew that from the outset, and has been proven correct by baseless slander such as the above.
Doug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Doug,
If you're motivated, do a search on "Colliers-Jardine" + Vietnam + Forbes and see what you find 
I'll do the same and we'll compare "partisan" results tomorrow! The CEO of Collier's International, the parent of "Colliers-Jardine" is/was JFngK's cousin from all the reports I've seen! His last name is Forbes. 
Let's see what we can find! Actually I think Michael Kranish (sp?) of the Globe reported on this some time back (like maybe in '96). From what you've said, you've spoken to him previously. If the net doesn't yield results you might want to call him!
I think you know that all I care about is that "the truth will out".
Hasta Manana, Amigo Mio!
And another thing:
I just received a quote and source from an undisclosed member who is more concerned with copyright law in a non-profit "TRUTH" forum than I am. So here it is! Send ME to jail! 
| Quote: | Deal will build Vietnam port:[01 Edition]
MICHAEL E. KNELL. Boston Herald. Boston, Mass.: Jun 16, 1993. pg. 032
Full Text (254 words)
Copyright Boston Herald Library Jun 16, 1993A Boston-based firm has helped
broker a $905 million deal to develop a deep sea port in Vietnam in what was
once a recreational area for U.S. troops.Colliers International, through
partner firm Colliers Jardine in Singapore, has put together a plan that
would bring big ships to Vung Tau, about 80 miles southeast of Ho Chi Minh
City.The four-year project, to start next year, is currently the largest
investment scheme in Vietnam, said Colliers CEO Stewart Forbes."I think this
represents the best elements of brokerage, matching a need - in this case a
country - with the money and the capability," he said. "This kind of
infrastructure is sorely needed in Vietnam."Work at Vung Tau will be done
largely by Japanese construction and engineering firms.Direct investment in
Vietnam has been forbidden by the United States since the 1975 collapse of
the U.S.-sponsored South Vietnam government.Colliers' involvement is legal
because it is through a partner, Forbes said.A number of U.S. firms,
including Boeing, Kodak and Du Pont, have opened offices in Vietnam hoping
the embargo will soon be lifted.Vietnam is seen as a nation of educated,
hard-working and low-cost laborers and some other countries, including
Japan, have begun investments.Once the big cargo ships can enter Vung Tau,
the area could "logically" be used for industry, Forbes said.Talks that
might have led to normalization of relations between the United States and
Vietnam have repeatedly foundered on the question of Americans missing in
action during the war.
Reproduced with permission of the copyright owner. Further reproduction or
distribution is prohibited without permission. (This is why I won't post this to the board.)
Companies: Colliers International (NAICS: 531210 )
Section: FINANCE
ISSN/ISBN: 07385854
Text Word |
_________________
 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ASPB wrote: |
Deal will build Vietnam port:[01 Edition]
MICHAEL E. KNELL. Boston Herald. Boston, Mass.: Jun 16, 1993. pg. 032
Full Text (254 words)
Copyright Boston Herald Library Jun 16, 1993A Boston-based firm has helped
broker a $905 million deal to develop a deep sea port in Vietnam in what was
once a recreational area for U.S. troops.Colliers International, through
partner firm Colliers Jardine in Singapore, has put together a plan that
would bring big ships to Vung Tau, about 80 miles southeast of Ho Chi Minh
City.The four-year project, to start next year, is currently the largest
investment scheme in Vietnam, said Colliers CEO Stewart Forbes."I think this
represents the best elements of brokerage, matching a need - in this case a
country - with the money and the capability," he said. "This kind of
infrastructure is sorely needed in Vietnam."Work at Vung Tau will be done
largely by Japanese construction and engineering firms.Direct investment in
Vietnam has been forbidden by the United States since the 1975 collapse of
the U.S.-sponsored South Vietnam government.Colliers' involvement is legal
because it is through a partner, Forbes said.A number of U.S. firms,
including Boeing, Kodak and Du Pont, have opened offices in Vietnam hoping
the embargo will soon be lifted.Vietnam is seen as a nation of educated,
hard-working and low-cost laborers and some other countries, including
Japan, have begun investments.Once the big cargo ships can enter Vung Tau,
the area could "logically" be used for industry, Forbes said.Talks that
might have led to normalization of relations between the United States and
Vietnam have repeatedly foundered on the question of Americans missing in
action during the war.
|
This is better than anything I've seen so far, but now I suppose I''ll (we'll) have to do a follow-up, as this was 11 years ago.
This certainly isn't a deal that has Colliers as the sole real estate agent for the entire country (one of many claims that floated around), which I figured was false on it's face.
But even this doesn't show how Kerry had any financial benefit. But OK, OK, I'll look around a bit.
Doug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Direct Financial Benefit? No, probably not...hell, if that could be proved he'd be prison instead of running for President!
Power? Power that leads to financial support to fulfull his personal goals? Possibly! Maybe even Certainly!
I'm don't believe Kerry is motivated by personal weath other than as a minor comfort and a "Winthrop" or "Heinz" tool for achieving the ultimate political position of power in the world.
I'm sure he has a social and political philosophy that he may even sincerely believe is better than what has gone before! However, I think it's clear from his record that these beliefs are subservient to his quest for power. At the cost of "anything" including integrity!
Anyway, that's just opinion! Let's focus on the Colliers-Jardine connection for tomorrow...factually!
Best Always!
Tom
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Doug,
Try finding Kerry's Financial Disclosure Statements from the 1990's - Kerry claimed holdings in companies with interests in Southeast Asia.
Don Bendell speculates in one of his columns that Collier was quite plausibly the manager for Kerry's blind trusts.
I believe Kerry benefitted personally and financially from his Committee's findings that the Vietnamese government was fully cooperative in the efforts to account for our missing and our POW's and their recommendation that trade and diplomacy be established.
OF COURSE there can be only an infinitesimally small chance of there being any men left alive in Vietnam, Laos or even China, TODAY.
I'm not going to argue that red herring.
But there was evidence worth pursuing back THEN that there were people who were NOT accounted for by the VN gov't.
There were credible sightings, reports, names given to people to pass along to embassy personnel and other intelligence and data to indicate that men were held in captivity far past the date when the VN gov't insisted that all POW's had been repatriated.
It was more politically expedient for this committee to "put Vietnam behind us."
If the measures to discredit the evidence before it even got a fair hearing required attacking even the families of POW/MIA's and people who were trying to support their efforts to get a full accounting, that's what that committee did.
And for John Kerry, it isn't a terribly big leap to take the available information and realize that it's not only POSSIBLE but PROBABLE that he benefitted financially.
John Kerry asked the Senate in 1971, "How do you ask the last man to die in Vietnam? How do you ask the last man to die for a mistake?"
The last man to die in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos or China was almost certainly still alive and suffering in enemy hands long after the VC's claimed that all of our POW's had been repatriated.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DougReese wrote: | This is better than anything I've seen so far, but now I suppose I''ll (we'll) have to do a follow-up, as this was 11 years ago.
This certainly isn't a deal that has Colliers as the sole real estate agent for the entire country (one of many claims that floated around), which I figured was false on it's face.
But even this doesn't show how Kerry had any financial benefit. But OK, OK, I'll look around a bit.
|
Who else got first pickings? While you are looking around, why don't you look at them massive donations Forbes makes to the DNC, like $100,000 a shot. My nose smells payback. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ASPB wrote: | | Direct Financial Benefit? No, probably not...hell, if that could be proved he'd be prison instead of running for President! |
Not if the contracts were managed through Asian subsidiaries - which is exactly what Colliers did to get around this little matter of Vietnam being a hostile country.
Not if the personal, financial benefit was well-enough hidden. (Blind trusts, holdings in Asian companies, etc?)
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| No one caught any significance from what Kerry said? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jalexson
PO3
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 4:30 am Post subject: Re: What Kerry told the Washington Star in 1971 |
|
|
| The bandit wrote: | | that we were called back to Saigon for special instructions from Gen. Abrams. He told us we were doing the right thing. He said our efforts would help win the war in the long run. |
I cannot imagine Abrams calling some swift boat officers to Saigon to reassure them of anything.
_________________
"That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
-- Mark Twain |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jalexson
PO3
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 4:37 am Post subject: Re: What Kerry told the Washington Star in 1971 |
|
|
| DougReese wrote: |
The fact is, unfortunately, that there are no POWs in Vietnam. Would that there were, but there aren't.
Doug |
I partly agree with you on this. With what we know of the North's treatment of POW's none of them would still have been alive by the 90's, although there may have been some alive and still held after they were supposed to have been released. I suspect many of those who weren't accounted for had been murdered by the Vietnamese before the war ended and they didn't want it known.
.
_________________
"That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
-- Mark Twain |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:39 am Post subject: Re: What Kerry told the Washington Star in 1971 |
|
|
| jalexson wrote: | | DougReese wrote: |
The fact is, unfortunately, that there are no POWs in Vietnam. Would that there were, but there aren't.
Doug |
I partly agree with you on this. With what we know of the North's treatment of POW's none of them would still have been alive by the 90's, although there may have been some alive and still held after they were supposed to have been released. I suspect many of those who weren't accounted for had been murdered by the Vietnamese before the war ended and they didn't want it known.
. |
I believe there were very few, if any, known to be captive and not released. For example, I don't think any of the POWs who returned said so-and-so was with me in Hoa Lo (Hanoi Hilton) but he wasn't released.
And the treatment of the POWs from late 1969 until their release in 1973 was much, much better than it had been previous to that. They lived together in groups more. They were allowed to conduct classes, have paper and pencils, etc.
And in all these years, there hasn't been a single credible bit of evidence that anyone was alive in the recent past -- let's say since the late 80's, which is when I became more aware of what was going on in Vietnam regarding this issue. And believe me, if there was a live POW, Vietnamese would be tripping over themselves coming forward to tell us about it.
Doug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
