 |
SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
|
 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
As was mentioned in an FR thread, this is worthy of note...and, perhaps, not unexpected.
"Glen Johnson" of AP, apparent source of this story (perhaps THE source?) on Kerry's PR stunt, is 1 of the "Chosen 3" reporters initially authorized access to Kerry's records by Kerry's tightly restricted SF 180's.
Subtle Jean Fraud is NOT.
...and something else I hadn't taken notice of first time around (and am unsure of its significance). SF180's for Kranish (of the Boston Globe) and Johnson were executed on May 20, 2005. The SF 180 for Steve Braun (of the LA Times) was executed some 2 weeks later on June 6, 2005.
I wonder if Braun was an afterthought later added to the list (which seems unlikely and would beg the question of why, then, weren't the first 2 immediately submitted on May 20?) or if it suggests there was some additional concern or difficulty associated with the release to Steven Braun (which seems more likely since it appears that Kerry's records were released to all 3 simultaneously...perhaps suggesting that the first 2 were being held from submission pending some further resolution of considerations relating to Mr. Braun's subsequent authorization).
Someone needs to ask each of these 3 reporters point blank, especially Mr. Braun...was there ANY stipulation(s?) demanded by Kerry and agreed to by them as a pre-condition(s?) to their being granted access to Kerry's records.
Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:08 am; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That took what two days for T. Boone to check mate John Kerry? Obviously, Kerry will never release his military discharge record prior to the alleged changes made by President Carter.
_________________
"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy
Last edited by GenrXr on Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:03 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| GenrXr wrote: | | That took what two days for T. Boone to check mate John Kerry? |
That Pickens has "checkmated" Kerry is not the "spin" that I'm seeing on the left side of the street.
| Quote: | | Obviously, Kerry will never release his military discharge record prior to President Carter making chanegs to them. |
I think you mean "allegedly" making changes to them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The LA Times adds yet more media confusion to the equation over the exact nature of Pickens' "challenge" (or is Mr. Rainey deliberately hyping and overstating the case based on paraphrases of Pickens' remarks on "Redstate.org" and "American Thinker"? Has anyone yet seen a "quote" of Mr. Pickens actual remarks?
| Quote: | Kerry takes on 'Swift Boat' challenge
The senator accepts a Texas oilman's offer to pay $1 million for each statement from the veterans group that can be proven false.
By James Rainey, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
November 17, 2007
Renewing a debate that raged through much of the 2004 presidential race, Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) on Friday accepted Texas oilman T. Boone Pickens' offer to pay $1 million to anyone who can disprove allegations by veterans who disparaged Kerry's Vietnam War record.
<snip>
Pickens was one of the principal financial backers of television ads that alleged Kerry had lied about his war experiences, didn't deserve his medals and had betrayed soldiers with his vehement protests after the war. The Texas billionaire, a prominent supporter of Bush and other Republicans, made his $1-million challenge at a Nov. 6 dinner in Washington sponsored by the American Spectator magazine.
LA Times- cont'd |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GoophyDog
PO1
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Washington - The Evergreen State
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have my doubts this will all come to pass. Kerry has already intimated he wants a public debate rather than a review of the facts, relying on his debating skills to see him through.
I can see it now, Kerry will milk this for a few more articles and exposure, then say something along the lines of "...we were unable to come to an agreement on the venue..." The timing will be during a high news day to reduce interest/exposure.
_________________
Why ask? Because it needs asking. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RacerJim
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 43
Location: Rockville Maryland
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| me#1you#10 wrote: | | Someone needs to ask each of these 3 reporters point blank, especially Mr. Braun...was there ANY stipulation(s?) demanded by Kerry and agreed to by them as a pre-condition(s?) to their being granted access to Kerry's records. |
"The records, which the Navy Personnel Command provided to the Globe, are mostly a duplication of what Kerry released during his 2004 campaign for president, including numerous commendations from commanding officers who later criticized Kerry's Vietnam service." -- Michael Kranish, Boston Globe Online, June 7, 2005.
Conspicuously absent from Mr. Kranish's article is any mention of even one specific new document or he name of any commanding officer. Perhaps those were pre-conditions.
note: BBCode edited/me#1 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deuce
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 589
Location: FL
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| GenrXr wrote: | | That took what two days for T. Boone to check mate John Kerry? Obviously, Kerry will never release his military discharge record prior to the alleged changes made by President Carter. |
On the other hand, were the junior senator from Massachussetts to comply to the letter of the wager, 'twould certainly be a million dollars well spent, even if his Senate staff could find a typo or 2! The voters of Massachussetts would forever be indebted to a Texas Patriot! and a blight on society would forever be silenced! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RacerJim
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 43
Location: Rockville Maryland
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Please make note of the time span T. Boone is looking for. There is more afoot than meets the eye. |
As someone else aptly noted, the time span T. Boone is looking for includes the "Honorable" discharge Kerry was given by the then Secretary of the Navy at the direction of the then POTUS. The pertinent document would be Kerry's request to have his original discharge reviewed because he would have had to mention exactly what was wrong with same that he wanted reviewed and changed/updated/upgraded. Does anyone know if Kerry's request could have been a personal letter (therefore not technically part-n-parcel of his military records) or would it have had to have been some sort of DoD form? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RacerJim wrote: | | Conspicuously absent from Mr. Kranish's article is any mention of even one specific new document or he name of any commanding officer. Perhaps those were pre-conditions. |
While I'm unsure if it was noted in Kranish's article, Page 1 of LCDR Joseph Streuli's fitrep on Kerry, missing from Kerry's campaign release (the absence of which was masked by a mis-sequencing of the pages in the presentation), like Hillary's Rose Law Firm records curiously materialized in the records obtained by the "chosen 3". While the "spin" is that Streuli's Page 1 contained nothing out of the ordinary, it has yet to be released for public examination despite Kerry's protestations that it's ALL "out there".
I do not trust, nor should anyone trust, any analysis of documents by "journalists" unencumbered by knowledge of military norms relating to "fitreps" who, in addition, have both feet firmly planted in Kerry's camp. Reputable analysts have already pronounced judgement that Kerry's fitreps are, at best, mediocre and at worst "career ending" yet the myth of his "God-like" fitness reports persists in the public sphere. I suspect there's SOMETHING in Streuli's Page 1 that Kerry would prefer not seeing the light of day...and keeping it from public examination may have been a pre-condition of release.
As Kerry trumpets the notion that those "fitreps" are already available, those 3 "journalists" should be pressured by their peer journalists to make that "Streuli Page 1" available for public examination. I won't hold my breath waiting for THAT to happen.
Nor should anyone trust their collective spin that there's nothing else of note in the release. There could very well be a document that, on the surface, appears innocuous to the untrained, inexperienced eye. Those 3 "journalists" should be pressured to reveal, AT LEAST, an index of the documents released to them. Perhaps that was the subject of a stipulation as well. A simple comparison of that index to an index of the documents Kerry previously and incessantly proclaimed as "complete" would be stark evidence showing him to be the liar and fraud that he is.
I won't hold my breath waiting for THAT either.
Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RacerJim
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 43
Location: Rockville Maryland
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | While I'm unsure if it was noted in Kranish's article, Page 1 of LCDR Joseph Streuli's fitrep on Kerry, missing from Kerry's release (the absence of which was masked by a mis-sequencing of the pages in the presentation), ...
Nor should anyone trust their collective spin that there's nothing else of note in the release. There could very well be a document that, on the surface, appears innocuous to the untrained, inexperienced eye. Those 3 "journalists" should be pressured to reveal, AT LEAST, an index of the documents released to them. Perhaps that was the subject of a stipulation as well. |
It, the missing Page 1 of LCDR Streuli's FitRep, was not noted in Kranish's article. Here's a link to the latter.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/06/07/kerry_allows_navy_release_of_military_medical_records/
Indeed, those 3 "journalists" should be pressured to AT LEAST reveal an index of ALL the documents released to them as well as any non-disclosure stipulations Kerry put on them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RacerJim wrote: | | It, the missing Page 1 of LCDR Streuli's FitRep, was not noted in Kranish's article. |
Thanks for the link.
A search of the LA Times' Archive presents the following (with an intriguing bit of information that I missed the first time around or had forgotten) (emphasis mine)...
| Quote: | THE NATION; Kerry Makes His Military, Medical File Available; The former presidential candidate's Vietnam records, including a missing document, offer no surprises. Critics say papers are incomplete.
Los Angeles Times - Los Angeles, Calif.
Author: Stephen Braun
Date: Jun 8, 2005
Start Page: A.17
Section: Main News; Part A; National Desk
Text Word Count: 847
Abstract (Document Summary)
In a phone interview from Houston, [John O'Neill] said the Swift boat group was pressing for information about three unresolved controversies from the 2004 race: [John F. Kerry]'s disputed contention that his Swift boat had entered Cambodian waters about December 1968; wording discrepancies among several versions of Kerry's medal commendations; and a perceived lag between Kerry's discharge from the Navy in 1970 and a later departure date in 1978.
Navy archives are sometimes incomplete, and Kerry's latest document release contained no new information on any of those controversies. But it did include the missing first page of a two- page evaluation from 1969. That document indicated that Kerry would have been selected for "accelerated promotion" and described him as "one of the top few" in his officer group -- the highest rank available.
A less flattering portrait of Kerry shows up in other documents in the file. Correspondence from Navy officials reveals that soon after leaving Vietnam, Kerry took pains to make sure that all his wartime commendations were documented in his military file.
LA Times Archives |
Braun echoes the "spin" referencing Streuli Page 1, but his paraphrase alluding to the existence of "other documents" (note the PLURAL) suggesting a "less flattering portrait" is one that I don't recall reading at the time. Certainly makes me go "hmmmmmm..." and reinforces my feeling that Mr. Braun might have presented Kerry with some unique considerations about Kerry's plans for a "limited modified hangout" (if I might steal a phrase from the "Tricky Dick" lexicon of story control).
Note especially that Braun alludes to documents OTHER THAN the one(s?) revealing Kerry's sub-par college grades which are UNIVERSALLY offered by scribes (such as Kranish) as the "smoking gun" that Kerry wanted to coverup.
Note also the story's residence...Page A17...aka "buried" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RacerJim
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 43
Location: Rockville Maryland
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
As I noted about Kranish's article, conspicuously absent from Braun's article is the name of the commanding officer whom he says gave Kerry the highest grade possible. Common sense should tell anyone to question the reason for that, in both cases.
Note that while Braun gave Kerry a pass on the probability that his records were incomplete, during the 2004 election cycle the DNC and msm were hammering Bush on the same issue. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RacerJim
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 43
Location: Rockville Maryland
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Kerry Takes Oilman Pickens Up On $1 Million |
|
|
| Aristotle The Hun wrote: | | shawa wrote: | Friday, November 16, 2007
Kerry takes oilman Pickens up on $1 million Swift Boat challenge
By GLEN JOHNSON
AP Political Writer
BOSTON— Sen. John Kerry, whose 2004 presidential campaign was torpedoed by critics of his Vietnam War record, said Friday he has personally accepted Texas oilman T. Boone Pickens' offer of $1 million to anyone who can disprove even a single charge of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
Cont'd at http://www.telegram.com/article/20071116/APN/711160829 |
How about Kerry making a equal counter wager and donate one million dollars for every charge that is true? |
The pertinent paragraph in Kerry's acceptance letter at http://www.telegram.com/article/20071116/APN/711160829 is:
"While I am prepared to show they lied on allegation after allegation, you have generously offered to pay one million dollars for just one thing that can be proven false," Kerry wrote to Pickens. "I am prepared to prove the lie beyond any reasonable doubt." (my emphasis).
Although I doubt that Kerry would be able to prove false any of the SBVT's allegations in a general sense I unfortunately suspect that he would be able to prove false one of same in a nitpicking sense, i.e.; the only thing Kerry needs is just one erroneous date, time, place, name, etc., etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Schadow
Vice Admiral
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 936
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
Pickens made it clear tonite on H&C that the wager concerns only the statements made in the Swiftvets' 2004 ads, apparently eliminating anything appearing in other media, e.g., books.
I agree that Kerry will never come clean on the '71 through '78 machinations regarding the alleged discharge manipulations.
Schadow
_________________
Capt, 8th U.S. Army, Korea '53 - '54 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
