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ccr
Commander
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 325
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 Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:03 am Post subject: |
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The irony of this entire controversy is that we now have:
The Washington Post
The New York Times
Chris Matthews
CNN
Lanny Davis
The entire liberal establishment
suddenly viewing official U.S. military documents as the holy grail of all truth.
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:07 am Post subject: |
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That looks like part of the citation, and not statements by Thurlow.
The article is trying to create the IMPRESSION that those are Thurlow's words, but that isn't the case, or they would have EXPRESSLY said so, instead of merely making the implication.
They are trying very hard to spin this so people get the EXACT same impression that YOU did. That you came away with that impression -- and as aware as you obviously are of the issues -- means that it worked.
Close all watertight doors and hatches, it looks like rough seas ahead.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Cipher,
You're right. I pride myself on being more analytical than that, but I took the bait hook, line, and sinker.
I think you'd agree that this absolutely MUST be fisked and we have to get the word out that Thurlow did not say that he was under enemy fire....and challenge Sen. Kerry to sign a Standard Form 180 to prove otherwise.
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-Polaris
Truth is Beauty |
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efuseakay
Ensign
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Thurlow didn't write the report... Kerry did... and that is what the Swifties are taking issue with... Kerry falsifying reports. Chances are Thurlow didn't even read the report that eventually lead to his Bronze Star (is it a V?)... and he even said that had he known his medal was awarded for enemy fire, instead of everything else he did that day, he wouldn't have accepted it. |
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tvaughan
Seaman
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 182
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:24 am Post subject: |
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This is exactly what we have to expect.
This if for effect. This is the next talking point. IT DOESN"T MATTER IF IT'S TRUE OR NOT.
It is designed to be a distraction. It is designed to give people a few more days where they can blow this story off.
Look how long the Boston Globe story lasted, and that was disputed within hours.
You still have analysts talk about "not on the same boat" despite the fact that makes no sense.
This is designed to simply give one more reason not to deal with this.
It will be one after another. After another. This is has only just begun, I'm afraid.
The good news is that clearly this is real. This is having an effect. This is part of the national discussion. All we need is enough people to open their mind just enough to look into it... Once you look into it, the conclusions are pretty awful.
We have to have faith in the truth. While we are passing the ammunition, of course.
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Talking point #1: Sign 180
Talking point #2: Sign 180
Talking point #3: Sign 180 |
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stealthy
Lieutenant
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:26 am Post subject: |
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WaPo finally breaks it's silence by putting this dishonest article above the fold page one.
Don't "excerpt" what you got, put it out there.
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American Conservative |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| ccr wrote: | The irony of this entire controversy is that we now have:
The Washington Post
The New York Times
Chris Matthews
CNN
Lanny Davis
The entire liberal establishment
suddenly viewing official U.S. military documents as the holy grail of all truth. |
Yep, beyond irony, isn't it? 
Let's hope that it's as transparent to the public as it is to folks, here.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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tvaughan
Seaman
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 182
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events. |
That's the first line of the article and it's not true!!!! The citation is not Thurlow's version of events.
These people are really committed to this. They are as committed as any body is on our side is. I have never seen the press so determined in my life. The joke is, they don't even like Kerry. ABB.
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Talking point #1: Sign 180
Talking point #2: Sign 180
Talking point #3: Sign 180 |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:35 am Post subject: |
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[quote="efuseakay"]Thurlow didn't write the report... Kerry did... and that is what the Swifties are taking issue with... Kerry falsifying reports. /quote]
I thought that "enemy fire" they refer to (Kerry's story) was actually some sort of "suppression fire" that started and ended, but was portrayed by Kerry as enemy fire? If he wrote up the report of what happened, then that would effect everybody involved in the incident -- would effect the report for all medals regarding that incident, wouldn't it? - I don't know -- just speculation -- (Thurlow, knowing it was suppression fire, would not have considered that as "being fired on.") |
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stealthy
Lieutenant
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:35 am Post subject: |
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I've checked other sites. This article is being destroyed elsewhere too.
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American Conservative |
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Septer
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 19
Location: Alpharetta, Ga.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:36 am Post subject: |
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Keep up the good work!!
I am new here.....and am impressed with the desire for the truth expressed here, as well as from the "Unfit for Command" book....which, I will be reading when Amazon.com sends it to me.
Thanks guys for the information and knowledge you have!
Mike
(just a regular guy...no military exp) |
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:38 am Post subject: |
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The point is that suddenly the MSM has "discovered" there is a "controversy" and they are going to "get to the bottom of it"
Oh, please.
What ever will they do when they discover the SOURCE for the wording of the citation was based on afer-action reports filed by .... (drum roll, please) John Kerry!
Did the WaPo spell the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth name right?
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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tvaughan
Seaman
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 182
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I've checked other sites. This article is being destroyed elsewhere to |
I'm telling you, it doesn't matter. It will be the next talking point for the next week. Get used to hearing about it.
And the conversation will be off Kerry lying and whether Thurlow was lying. It won't matter that it's not even Thurlow that they're quoting.
I am quite sure that if Kerry's citation was the only one that mentioned enemy fire from that day, someone would have noticed a discrepancy when they signed the citations. Of course all the citations had to mention enemy fire! Not even Kerry would claim that the VC only wanted to kill him.
The media's new found faith in military field citations is touching.
_________________
Talking point #1: Sign 180
Talking point #2: Sign 180
Talking point #3: Sign 180 |
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efuseakay
Ensign
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:43 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Beatrice1000"] | efuseakay wrote: | Thurlow didn't write the report... Kerry did... and that is what the Swifties are taking issue with... Kerry falsifying reports. /quote]
I thought that "enemy fire" they refer to (Kerry's story) was actually some sort of "suppression fire" that started and ended, but was portrayed by Kerry as enemy fire? If he wrote up the report of what happened, then that would effect everybody involved in the incident -- would effect the report for all medals regarding that incident, wouldn't it? - I don't know -- just speculation -- (Thurlow, knowing it was suppression fire, would not have considered that as "being fired on.") |
Well, it depends on what exactly Kerry filed... that's really the issue here as I understand it... But this article does prove that Kerry did speed away when PCF-3 was hit by the mine... Rassmann was on Kerry's boat, and when he buggered out, he fell off... Rassmann, being in the water, most definitely didn't know who was doing the shooting, especially if his claims of going underwater to avoid being hit by the other boats is actually true... that would explain his confusion...
And surely, if there was incoming enemy fire, some of the boats would have been hit by bullets... as far as I know, none of the boats other than PCF-3 which hit the mine, reported any damage.
This whole event looks like the patrol got unlucky and hit a mine that was forgotten about by the VC, and there really was no ambush waiting for them... but protocol after one of your boats hits a mine states that you had to fire at the shore, in the event there was an ambush. After the Swifties stopped firing, there was absolute silence. There was no enemy fire at all.
It appears what the reporter at the ComPost is only talking about the citation, and not the After Action Report.
I hope the Swifties come out with an official response to this... I wonder if the ComPost will post that on Page 1...  |
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Every dark cloud has a silver lining. Note this part, buried DEEP in the article?
| Quote: | | The Bronze Star controversy is also a major focus of an anti-Kerry book by John E. O'Neill, "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry," which will hit No. 2 on The Post's bestseller list this weekend. The book accuses Kerry of "fleeing the scene" and lying repeatedly about his role. |
Number TWO! That would HAVE to be right behind General Frank's book.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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