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Polaris Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 626
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hanna,
I said it. Unfortunately I was wrong. Only RD1 Lambert was the witness. You are right...the longer we sit the worse this gets. If the truth really is on our side, then we should have a good answer. At least that is what the MSM is going to start to say....if they haven't already started to say it. _________________ -Polaris
Truth is Beauty |
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kmmpatriot Lt.Jg.
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 Posts: 146
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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I keep waiting for some sort of release for SBVT - A moment ago DRUDE had three links at the top of his page...all about Kerry and "records" disputing the SBVT charges....there needs to be an OFFICIAL response to these from this side...and FAST!
Fingers crossed here. |
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sevry Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 Posts: 326
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Polaris wrote: | 2. Kerry was one of the two witnesses used for that award recommendation.
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What is the number of the standard form that is used to recommend a medal? Does it require two signatures? Who writes the text? Etc. |
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sevry Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 Posts: 326
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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sevry wrote: | Polaris wrote: | 2. Kerry was one of the two witnesses used for that award recommendation.
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What is the number of the standard form that is used to recommend a medal? Does it require two signatures? Who writes the text? Etc. |
Let me answer my own message, here. I didn't realize Kerry had uploaded his recommendation form for the Bronze Star. Either I had missed this, or it was just recently added to his site. But at the time it was the Award Recommendation, form NAVPERS 1650/6 (8-67).
I don't know if such was required for a PH. I assume so, or some sort of documentation, at any rate. It's interesting that this Award Recommendation describes Kerry as Officer in Charge "conducting" the "five boat" mission. I thought another officer was senior to Kerry. Was Kerry the Tactical Officer in Charge? That makes it doubly embarrassing for him if he chickened out of what he thought was a fight, leaving the crippled boat behind, along with the three others.
Sandusky is the sole eyewitness. And in this recommendation by Elliott, Thurlow and Lambert are recommended for the Bronze Star. If THIS is the 'new' document, then HOW THE HECK would Thurlow have known what lies had been given to Elliott? Elliott didn't even know! He now swears by affidavit that he was misinformed at the time. |
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Norman Rogers Seaman Recruit
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 Posts: 12
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:20 pm Post subject: Examining both Bronze Star recommendations |
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Kerry's was recommended by Sandusky,
Thurlow's by Lambert.
Kerry's claims Rassman "by this time was receiving sniper fire from the river banks" (by the time Kerry came back for him).
Thurlow's cites ONE mine -- under PCF-3. Kerry's claims a second mine.
Thurlow's claims constant enemy small arms-fire.
The eyewitness for Thurlow was Lambert.
The eyewitness for Kerry was Sandusky.
No statements from either Kerry or Thurlow in either recommendation.
Anyone have a handle on Lambert or Sandusky?
Of course, if we had the after-action reports, we'd know more. |
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frankzzz Ensign
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 65 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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I’ve posted this on another thread but it applies to this topic and this thread seems a bit more active.
Anyway, perhaps the best way to resolve this is to have Thurlow and Rassman give their accounts on a show such as Scarborough Country with the intention of reconciling the differences between the two.
Personally, I’ve heard several reports that there was suppressing fire during the time Rassman was in the water but I’ve not heard anyone in the media tie this “fact”(?) to Rassman's steadfast testimony about being under fire while he was in the water.
You see, as a bystander, I’ve always tended to believe both sides of this story because, when I put myself in Rassman’s place, I would probably be thinking the worst and that any gunfire I heard (between my dives underwater and gasping for breath at the surface) was directed at me (as opposed to being gunfire directed at the shoreline from the boats).
Again, I’ve heard several accounts of this story but none that tie these two facts together.
I.e. the fact that Rassman was in the water (where he did not have a clear view of the events) and the fact that the swift boats were firing at the shoreline while he was in the water.
If this is how it actually played out that day, this could easily explain Rassman’s account without implicating him in some kind of conspiracy with Kerry.
I just don’t think Rassman or Thurlow are the kind of people who would intentionally lie about such things. However, since they are only human, I could see how someone like Rassman might be confused about the circumstances (considering his own circumstances at the time).
I also think it is necessary to reconcile Rassman’s version of this story with the Swift Boat Veteran’s version of this story before any further ground can be made on this issue because Rassman seems to be the only one who is still willing to come forward to speak in favor of Kerry. |
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stealthy Lieutenant
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 237
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I could see how someone like Rassman might be confused about the circumstances (considering his own circumstances at the time).
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I think you just reconciled them yourself. _________________ American Conservative |
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sevry Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 Posts: 326
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Examining both Bronze Star recommendations |
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Norman Rogers wrote: | Kerry's was recommended by Sandusky,
Thurlow's by Lambert. |
Is the yet something else? The Award Recommendation for Kerry, himself, is witnessed only by Sandusky. And that seems to be where Thurlow and Lambert are recommended for the Bronze Star.
Quote: |
Thurlow's cites ONE mine -- under PCF-3. Kerry's claims a second mine.
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Interesting 'oversight', that.
Quote: | Thurlow's claims constant enemy small arms-fire. |
Basically, a raging battle.
Quote: | No statements from either Kerry or Thurlow in either recommendation. |
I don't see how there's much doubt that those are Kerry's notions represented in the Award Recommendation for himself.
Quote: | Of course, if we had the after-action reports, we'd know more. |
Did any other Lieutenant write up the action that day, besides Kerry?
I just wanted to say, too, from the other thread, that having thought about this, sure I can see how Thurlow might have given others the 'heads up' on the wording, here. But maybe this is found in various citations. The more I think about it, the more of a (fill in your own word) I believe Kerry to be. I can't imagine how angry Thurlow must be. Thurlow clearly deserved, and deserves, that medal. He shouldn't offer to return it. Maybe at some date there's a procedure to have the text revised. And I'm sure everyone in the Navy would understand, in this particular case. But unlike Kerry, Thurlow really was a hero that day.
Last edited by sevry on Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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frankzzz Ensign
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 65 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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“I think you just reconciled them yourself”.
Yeah, but what I say doesn’t count.
It’s the media who needs to reconcile these statements and, hopefully, move the debate forward. |
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Robert Cooper Lt.Jg.
Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 134 Location: Tulsa, OK
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:11 pm Post subject: New Revelation concerning Kerry's character |
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Wow! Another piece of evidence that exposes the true character of John Kerry - one who didn't hesitate to falsify military records!
Would one that falsifies military records hesitate to lie to Congress? Yes, in 1971 before Congress where he looked those Senators in the eyes and told them bald faced lies!
Send a thank you note to Michael Dobbs of Washington Post for his artiicle that further reveals more evidence for why John Kerry is unfit for command! _________________ Know the difference between Politics and Mesmeratics - one embraces, propagates and promotes the truth, while the other manipulates it! |
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