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Me#1You#10
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Joined: 06 May 2004
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 Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 12:24 am Post subject: Kerry's Fitness Reports |
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In an attempt to better understand Kerry's campaign-vetted officer fitness reports submission, I'm attempting to "timeline" those reports.
Thus far...
- 17 Dec 66 - 10 Mar 67
Naval Schools Command, San Francisco, CA
Reason - Detachment of Officer
- 22 Mar 67 - 14 Apr 67
U.S. Fleet Anti-air Warfare Center, San Diego, CA
Reason - Detachment of Officer
- 08 Jun 67 - 31 Aug 67
USS Gridley
Reason - Periodic
Alan W. Slifer, Capt, USN, CO
- 01 Sep 67 - 22 Mar 68
USS Gridley
Reason - Periodic - Detachment of Reporting Senior
Alan W. Slifer, Capt, USN, CO
- 23 Mar 68 - 20 July 68
USS Gridley
Reason - Periodic - Detachment of Officer
W.E. Harper Jr., Capt, USN, CO
- 21 Jul 68 - ?
Navy Amphibious Base, Coronado, CA
Reason - Detachment of Officer? - Missing but partially accounted for in naval message
- 08 Nov 68 - 06 Dec 68
Coastal Division 14, Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam
Reason - Detachment of Officer
Grant W. Hibbard, LCDR, CO, Coastal Division 14
Kerry Documents 18-19
- 06 Dec 68 - 13 Dec 68
Coastal Division 11, An Thoi, Vietnam
Reason - Detachment of Officer
G. M. Elliot, LCDR, CO, Coastal Division 11
Kerry Documents 20-21
Up to this point, Kerry's fitness reports appear to be both presented and sequenced properly. Beyond this point, your guess is as good as mine...they're an out-of-sequence jumble of what appear to be both overlapping, post-dated and missing documents. I'm still trying to work my way through them.
Remember, it is alleged by Lt. Wright that he was instrumental in having Kerry transfered from his initial assignment with Coastal 11 on 6 Dec 68 due to Kerry's "indiscriminate use of weapons in a free fire zone". Whether that is factual is certainly arguable, barring some form of credible corroboration. What is NOT arguable is that the transfer WAS effected and generated the need for a "Detachment of Officer" fitness report, submitted by LCDR Elliot.
Now, consider the content of that same fitness report (pp.20-21). Better yet, consider the LACK of content in that same fitness report. "Infrequent Observation", "Not Observed" and "Submitted for continuity" in the comments section are it's content.
Also consider what appears to be a rather odd notation in Section 22, subsection "c", question 2. The respondent is asked whether or not this report has been discussed with the subject officer, and LCDR Elliot responds "Yes". Why in the world would LCDR Elliot feel the need to "discuss" such an ambivalent report with Kerry in the first place? Keeping in mind the allegation by Lt. Wright, might this have been a trip to the proverbial woodshed in lieu of what COULD have been a LOUSY fitness report?
Any thoughts from you vet officers out there? Would you expect a run-of-the-mill or better fitness report to generate a session with the "old man"?
More to come when I get the remainder of the Kerry documents sorted out.
Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Fri May 28, 2004 1:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Richard
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Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 53
Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 3:51 am Post subject: |
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I've got a bit of experience with FitReps. The outline you presented has a few discrepancies but none really serious. The first thing you have to understand is that negative comments on fitreps are very, very infrequent. In fact, I have never seen any and only heard of one instance of such. To underscore this, let me give you an example. A good friend of mine was the Officer in Charge (OIC) of a detachment of SeaBees to Wake Island. For some reason, he got into trouble and was recalled. His replacement was sent and he came back to the main body which was in Guam at the time. He didn't get one word of the incident reported on his fitrep. This was told to me by the XO of the Battalion who drafted the report on him. But the fact that he did not complete the entire deployment of his detachment said it all.
Remember that Dwight Eisenhower was nearly kicked out of the army as a junior officer for discrepancies in his housing allowance claims for his wife and son. Eisenhower was ordered to an unaccompanied tour and had to leave his family behind. Normally, the Army will pay a certain amount for an officer to house and feed his family while he is stationed away from home. Since he is not with them, they are not elegible for base housing. Mamie (his wife) left to live with her parents in Colorado. He still claimed expenses. When the base disbursing officer found out he demanded the money be repaid and referred the case to the base legal officer.
Officers will get FitReps when they leave a duty station, are sent TAD for any period of time, or the Commanding Officer changes. Periodic, Detachment of Officer or Change of Commanding Officer are the most common reasons to get a FitRep.
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION
His schools command FitReps are just typical. Don't assume anything from them. His first fitrep from the CO of the Gridley was good one. But notice that 4 out of 5 junior officers got the same report. Also notice that the CO's best comment was Kerry's "conversational" ability. That is not much of a recommendation. But still, the overall report indicates he did a good job.
Notice on his second report the CO marks him in the top 2 of four. Two others were marked down. Those two guys probably were getting out of the Navy. This is a common tactic to make junior officers with time to go look good in case they want to make the Navy a career. Also, notice the CO also comments that Kerry is a good choice for a diplomatic post. Kerry had to be sucking up to the skipper to get that kind of comment. But that's how the Navy works.
The FitRep from 8 Nov - 6 Dec 68 is very odd. Obviously there was a problem. But in Kerry's defense, officers are trained to be very aggressive and independent. This can sometimes create severe peronality conflicts with contemporaries. Good officers are not penalized for "stretching their wings" as long as they don't screw up too badly. This could be only that. It doesn't say. But notice that where Kerry is marked down is in military bearing, personal behavior, and cooperation. Sounds like an attitude problem.
It is the FitRep covering the period from 14 Dec 68 - 26 Mar 69 that tells a very bad story. Anytime an officer is serving in a hostile fire zone, he normally gets a top one percent FitRep. We called them "water walker reports". Kerry does get some high marks. Notice his mark for cooperation is "Is Not Exceeded". But he has bad marks for personal behavior, military bearing, and self expression. Also notice that he is marked down in "desire for command". LCDR Elliot is telling everyone that Kerry is not someone he would want in a position of command.
To be fair to Kerry, it could also be that LCDR Elliot just didn't like him. His reports from Vietnam do show a definite problem. Sudden transfer, poor marks in military bearing and behavior followed by transfer out of country after just four months do not add up to a good experience between the Navy and John Forbes Kerry.
I'd like to hear any other analysis if you have any. Feel free to take exception if you disagree.
Richard
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Me#1You#10
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Joined: 06 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 5:28 am Post subject: |
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Richard...excellent post, and a fair analysis based on experience that certainly has credibility, at least to me. This is the type of dialogue that's necessary in this effort, and the collective experience of this board can be harnessed to refine the case against Kerry. To that end, I even welcome the input of the Kerry-supporters. If you can't make your case here, forget about making it to America.
These fitreps are being touted by the Kerry camp as prima facie evidence of Kerry's "exemplary" Vietnam service, and it is being swallowed whole by either a too timid, too biased or unknowledgable media who then spoon-feed it en masse to an unknowing public. I have yet to see a critical examination of these fitness reports by ANY major media. Have I missed one? Anyone?
| Quote: | | Notice on his second report the CO marks him in the top 2 of four. Two others were marked down. Those two guys probably were getting out of the Navy. This is a common tactic to make junior officers with time to go look good in case they want to make the Navy a career. |
Certainly seems plausible, and it also lends an aspect of credibility to the reviewing officers' observations...and THEY are more likely to be career officers. Sounds like a nice parlay.
| Quote: | | Also, notice the CO also comments that Kerry is a good choice for a diplomatic post. Kerry had to be sucking up to the skipper to get that kind of comment. But that's how the Navy works. |
I'm afraid, to a great degree, that's how life works.
| Quote: | | This can sometimes create severe peronality conflicts with contemporaries. Good officers are not penalized for "stretching their wings" as long as they don't screw up too badly. This could be only that. It doesn't say. But notice that where Kerry is marked down is in military bearing, personal behavior, and cooperation. Sounds like an attitude problem. |
Interesting, and similar to an observation from another officer in that same unit who, btw, is also quite critical of Bush.
| Quote: |
John Kerry's War
By Steve Hayes
Washington Post Op-ed
Saturday, April 17, 2004; Page A25
I knew John Kerry. We served together in late 1968 and early '69 as Navy Swift Boat officers-in-charge in Coastal Division 14 in Cam Ranh Bay and in Coastal Division 11 in An Thoi, Vietnam.
I didn't know him well. I found him a bit aloof and imperious. After a 24-hour patrol, most of us would kick back, get a cold beer, talk or sleep. After a 24-hour patrol, I remember Kerry would usually be in the squadron office writing. I never knew exactly what he was working on. Notes? Letters? His war diary? But always he was writing.
His service along the coast and in the rivers was commendable. But there was always something a bit odd about his time with us.
WP Op-ed |
I'm also reminded of the fictional Ltjg. Keefer, another "writer", in "The Caine Mutiny"...but that's another angle for another day.
I'll stop here but, again, good post and much food for thought. More to come from me on the 14 DEC-26 Mar fitrep after I digest it a bit more.
Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Thu May 27, 2004 4:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CJ
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 5:22 pm Post subject: FitRep Analysis |
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I have been working on a page addressing this very issue. The meat of the content is from an old friend who was a CAPT and shall forever be nameless.
Check out www.sportsmenforkerry.com/fitrep_analysis.htm.
I am looking for feedback / corrections / expansions from people experienced in these things, especially those who signed Kerry's fitreps. If it appears alittle odd, it is because this page is not linked into the rest of the site yet. I want to make sure it is right before publishing for general consumption.
Enjoy. |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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CJ...EXCELLENT piece of work, though I'll still trudge through the remainder so I have a firm grasp of it myself.
For the sake of the discussion, I'm going to take the liberty of posting your "analysis" of the puzzling 14 Dec 68 - 26 Mar 69 fitrep. You seem to reach many of the same conclusions as Richard in his earlier post.
WHY hasn't ONE major media source looked into this?
| Quote: | This is a particularly interesting period as there is one whole and one partial Fitrep. Page 24 of the Fitness Reports is first signed 28 Jan 69. It is thought that this is the partial Fitrep. page 23 is the first page of the complete Fitrep and page 22 is the second.
The partial Fitrep is missing page 1, so we are unable to determine the period covered, his performance of duties or his desirability. Its earliest start date would have to be 14 Dec 68 and its latest end date would be 28 Jan 69 (signature date). By its signature date, we know it was completed two months before Kerry would leave COSDIV11. We know that under Block 20, Kerry's personal characteristics ratings were seriously downgraded in most categories. This is particularly significant as ratings are generally higher for subjects in a combat zone. We can also see that he was not recommended for promotion. If the first page mirrors the subject's ratings from the second, this is an officer in performance trouble.
The complete Fitrep is interesting for a couple of reasons. First because it duplicates the time period covered by the partial and second because it was not written until 8.5 months after the end of duty. Additionally it is this Fitrep that makes mention of all but one of Kerry's awards. It is a "walk-on-water" review which is quite a contrast to the partial above. Note can also be made that this Fitrep was written after the subject's discharge orders had been cut.
He is also said to have learned Vietnamese. This is remarkable since he entered the country around the first week in November and was gone by the end of March.
The complete Fitrep finally fails to recommend Kerry for promotion.
http://www.sportsmenforkerry.com/fitrep_analysis.htm
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P.S. I haven't yet pursued this, but there's no documentation that I've seen emanating from Kerry's short stint with Coastal 13 in Cat Lo. Shouldn't there have been a fitrep for the detachment from Coastal 13 BACK to Coastal 11 sometime prior to 22 Jan 70, the date which several Coastal 11 officers (one of which was Kerry) were briefed by Zumwault and Abrams in Saigon?
Could THAT be the "Page 1" that's missing?
Here's what I understand as to his timeline thus far
- Nov 17, 1968 - Coastal Division 14, Cam Ranh Bay - Kerry is transfered from this unit within 4 days of presenting himself to an incredulous CO as a prospective Purple Heart recipient. There are also allegations that the transfer was effected by Kerry's failure to attend an officer's meeting where he was awarded the "short-straw".
- Dec 6, 1968 - Coastal Division 11, An Thoi - Kerry is transfered from this unit after only 6 days? purportedly for "indiscriminate use of weapons in a free fire zone."
- Dec 13, 1968 - Coastal Division 13, Cat Lo (Vung Tau) - Date of transfer from this unit back to Coastal 11 is undetermined, as there is no documentation (such as a page 1 of LCDR Streuli's detachment fitrep) available.
- Date Unknown - Coastal Division 11, An Thoi - Date of assignment sometime prior to 22 Jan '70 -
- 29 Jan 1969 - Kerry takes command of PCF-94 replacing Edward Peck who was hospitalized for wounds received
Please correct/add if you can furthur clarify.
Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Fri May 28, 2004 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CJ
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 6:55 pm Post subject: Coastal 13 |
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The fitrep file, as distributed, makes no mention of Coastal Div 13. I would love to see some documentation.
The complete fitrep for 14 dec 68 - 26 mar 69 was signed by LCDR Elliot on 18 dec 69. The delay may have been caused by Elliot causing trouble for Kerry because Elliot was so pissed off. Or it could have been produced to cover fitreps that were less than desirable. Or some other reason.
By the time Elliot was writing the fitrep, he probably knew that Kerry was on his way out and knew Kerry could try to use political influence against him. My guess is that Elliot produced a fitrep that would be least likely to cause him trouble.
NEW INFO-------------------------------------------------------------
according to http://swiftboats.net/extras/cosdiv13swiftgram1-69.htm
LCDR J. W. Streuli was Commander Coastal Div 13.
He is the same guy that cosigned to extra page 2 fitrep where page 1 is missing. Why would he be signing if Kerry weren't there?
NEW INFO--------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by CJ on Wed May 26, 2004 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Me#1You#10
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Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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CJ, if you check Kerry's website, even IT references an assignment to Coastal 13, although it INCORRECTLY locates it in Cam Ranh Bay, NOT Cat Lo.
| CJ wrote: | The complete fitrep for 14 dec 68 - 26 mar 69 was signed by LCDR Elliot on 14 dec 68.
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I think you mean 14 Dec 69...looks like this was written 9 MONTHS after the fact in response to the "urgent" request for it by CHNAVPERS? (Kerry fitrep docs, p14)
If Streuli was in command of Coastal 13 when Kerry was transfered, it created a need for a "detachment of officer" fitrep. If Elliot was in command of Coastal 11 at the time of Kerry's termination of service, it created the need for a "detachment of officer" fitrep.
That SHOULD have been the logical sequence.
Instead we have a fitrep written by LCDR Elliot 9 MONTHS after-the-fact
covering a period of time during which Kerry was under the command of TWO different CO's (Streuli in 13, and Elliot, for a second time, in 11) and then PAGE 2 ONLY of a fitrep apparently correctly initiated and composed bt LCDR Streuli for Kerry's tenure with Coastal 13, which LCDR Elliot endorses almost 2 months later.
But what of Elliot's requirement to compose an independent "detachment of officer" fitrep for Kerry's stateside detachment?? Did he just simply "endorse" Streuli's earlier assessment rather than composing his own? Is that an authorized procedure?
And what of the "detachment of reporting senior" aspect to which he co-assigned as the rationale for his late '69 submission? Where does that fit in all of this?
Could one of you swifties or navy types enlighten us as to the circumstances under which 2 superior officers might "John Hancock" a fitrep?
Sooooo...Kerry gets "short-strawed" from his first unit, gets tossed out of his second unit within 6 days, and then gets transfered out of a third somewhere in the vicinity of 4 weeks with only page 2 of a fitrep as documentation, and from his FINAL assignment, the only independent fitrep is composed 9 months after-the-fact.
Sure sounds like some red meat for an enterprising journalist.
NOTE: I have edited this post to reflect accurate facts as they become known to me.
Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Thu May 27, 2004 6:53 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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CJ
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 9:18 pm Post subject: Missing first page. |
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I have reached the following conclusions wrt the missing fitrep page 1:
1) The second page dated 28 jan 69 is the 'hanging fitrep'. It was executed by Strueli and Elliot. Not sure why Elliot signed it but Strueli was the CO of Coastal Div 13. Kerry's transfer from COSDIV13 to COSDIV11 was timed with his takeover of PCF-94 documented as 29 Jan 69. This page two shows a brutal fitrep that probably had an equally bad page 1. I can only conclude that something bad happened in COSDIV13 and Kerry was transferred.
2) The other 2 pages were typed at the same time. Look closely and note that the small 'a' drops alittle on the typewriter. This is the fitrep signed 18 dec 69, 8.5 months after leaving COSDIV11. I do not understand why Elliot would sign a fitrep covering the entire period of COSDIV13 and COSDIV11. Perhaps there was political preasure as noted in his early fitreps. |
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Me#1You#10
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Joined: 06 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Missing first page. |
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CJ...I don't think we're in agreement yet, but we'll get there eventually. I need to continue the process I started when I began this thread.
In the interim, one observation...
| CJ wrote: | Kerry's transfer from COSDIV13 to COSDIV11 was timed with his takeover of PCF-94 documented as 29 Jan 69.
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I believe you are incorrect here. If you look at the documentation on the 22 Jan 69 meeting in Saigon with Zumwault and Abrams which Kerry purportedly attended, the aide to Zumwault or Zumwault himself (I'll have to dig up the source, tho I know it's out there) clearly identifies the group as officers of Coastal 11. IOW, Kerry had ALREADY been reassigned to Coastal 11 sometime prior to the 22 Jan meeting. I have yet to see any specific documentation that would irrefutably establish the actual date of Kerry's transfer to his FOURTH unit in just TWO MONTHS. |
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CJ
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Web site updated per your recommendation.
I find it interesting that he makes a point of being on PCF-44 and PCF-94 but makes no mention of a boat number for his COSDIV14 stays. May be meat there. |
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Me#1You#10
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| CJ wrote: |
I find it interesting that he makes a point of being on PCF-44 and PCF-94 but makes no mention of a boat number for his COSDIV14 stays. May be meat there. |
He was only in COSDIV14, his initial assignment, for 18 days. 4 days before he was transferred, he was in command of a boston-whaler type craft when he received his first PH. I've seen no documentation that he ever commanded a PCF with this division, which might not be unreasonable having been in-country for such a short period of time. I'm sure there must have been some supervised training initially required before they'd cut a Ltjg. loose with one of those floating gun platforms.
Might be interesting to hear from some of the swifties on this aspect of the PCF story. What was the procedure/time frame to get a guy qualified for unsupervised command?
What I'd REALLY like to hear about was his relatively short tenure with Coastal 13 (4 weeks) after they kicked his butt out of Coastal 11. |
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Richard
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Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 53
Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 2:25 am Post subject: |
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Let me join the conversation.
CJ: That page you put together is first rate. You deserve a letter of commendation for sorting out the dates and explaining things 
I've been trying to make heads or tails of the signing dates as compared to the period covered. I can't understand what the heck is going on. The FitRep noting that he was awarded the Silver Star and Purple Hearts was forwarded by LCDR Elliot on 18 Dec 69. That is almost a full year after the period covered. LCDR Elliot remarks that his bearing is above reproach. Yet the next FitRep (14 Dec 68 to 26 Mar 69) LCDR Elliot notes his bearing "above average". This is a notable difference.
I'd like to float the following theory:
My theory is that LCDR Elliot had to rewrite the FitRep he forwarded on 18 Dec 69 to match the performance of an officer that won the Silver Star. Was he pressured to do so?
We do know that the citation for the Silver Star was reissued by Sec of the Navy, Lehman in 1987. So we have the precedent that Kerry will rewrite or have records reissued.
If LCDR Elliot had to rewrite his FitRep, what was said in the first one? It could be that political pressure was brought to bear to give Kerry a status he didn't deserve.
Of course, I could be wrong.
Richard
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Me#1You#10
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 3:21 am Post subject: |
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OK CJ...I just looked again at Kerry fitrep pages 22 and 23, and I concur that those are the out of order back and front of the same fitrep submitted by LCDR Elliot on 18 Dec 69. I also see the lowercase letter "a" out of alignment on the low side on both pages. Good catch! 
You are correct here as well. Page 24 looks like the back (page 2) of the "detachment of officer" fitrep that would have been prepared by LCDR Streuli upon Kerry's transfer to Coastal 11 from Coastal 13. The "text" also seems to read as a much more generic description of a Swift OIC's job performance with little of the "flair" of LCDR Elliot's prose. I'm convinced that this is LCDR Streuli's Kerry fitrep covering his tenure with Coastal 13, mandated by his deatchment to Coastal 11, date unknown. Why it's endorsed by LCDR Elliot ALMOST 2 MONTHS later is a mystery just as is the whereabouts of the front, or page 1.
The plot thickens.
Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Thu May 27, 2004 6:56 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Me#1You#10
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| Richard wrote: |
I've been trying to make heads or tails of the signing dates as compared to the period covered. I can't understand what the heck is going on. The FitRep noting that he was awarded the Silver Star and Purple Hearts was forwarded by LCDR Elliot on 18 Dec 69. That is almost a full year after the period covered. LCDR Elliot remarks that his bearing is above reproach. Yet the next FitRep (14 Dec 68 to 26 Mar 69) LCDR Elliot notes his bearing "above average". This is a notable difference. |
Richard, the 2nd report you reference (page 24) was NOT composed by LCDR Elliot, but is the back of the fitrep prepared by LCDR Streuli. Page 1 of THAT fitrep is MIA, and, for SOME reason, was endorsed by LCDR Elliot around the time of Kerry's Vietnam departure.
Interestingly enough, we now have 2 occasions upon which LCDR Elliot should have composed a fitrep on Kerry. The first WAS completed but was void of ANY ratings or observations, ostensibly because Kerry's first tenure with Coastal 11 only lasted 6-8 DAYS!
The second should have been completed upon Kerry's 2nd DEROS detachment from Coastal 11, but all the record shows is his endorsement of LCDR Streuli's prior fitrep, and a fitrep LCDR Elliot prepared at the behest of CHNAVPERS some 9 MONTHS later!
Something ODD is going on here. Let the speculation commence.
Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Fri May 28, 2004 10:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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