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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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 Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "It was intended to be silly - a ridiculous response for a ridiculous set of accusations. " |
Silly me! I really thought you were trying to use some bizarre legality to avoid responding to those points. Remember, there's no substitute for actually addressing them and it's not too late. |
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Hesiod
Former Member
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: To Hediod |
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| shoebowl wrote: | You're so full of crap. One must understand that applying for the leading job in the land has it's scrutiny. I don't for one second agree with you that they have the obligation to open their records. I am simply amazed that you find this important.
What they did was honorable and beyond your scrutiny sir, what John F. Kerry did is open to debate. Because you think this is timely, doesn't make for an excuse. If it had come AFTER he was elected, I'd have wondered about thier credibility. I thank God that somebody found the courage to stand up and say "no".
If you think comparing records of one vet to another is worthwhile, you're not "in it" sir. Take the time to consider what you're thinking and then get back to the vets.
Semper Fidelis,
Don |
Fact: Their claim is that John Kerry is unfit to be President.
Fact: They are resting the credibility of their claim upon THEIR military records as Vietnam Swift Boat Veterans. Hence the NAME of this group.
Fact: They accuse John Kerry of not being heroic in Vietnam, faking his wounds, and of lying about THEIR records.
Fact: They want John Kerry to release his military records for scutiny.
Conclusion: The only way to find out if these people are credible if to see THEIR military records.
They put their own records at issue by claiming theirs were better than John Kerry, and that they never did any of the tings John Kerry ostensibly claimed they did.
OK. Prove it.
If not, then....I rest my case: They ae nothing but politically motivated hacks. |
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Greenhat
LCDR
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Swift Boat Veterans Refuse to Open Their Own Records. |
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| Hesiod wrote: |
If you are not willing to post your records online, like Senator Kerry has done, then you will prove that you are nothing but partisan hacks working for the Buhs campaign.
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Are any of the members of this organization running for public office? Running for President of the United States?
Oh, and regarding what Senator Kerry has done? Where are the records that explain why he was reduced to Ensign?
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Hesiod
Former Member
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Swift Boat Veterans Refuse to Open Their Own Records. |
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| Greenhat wrote: | | Hesiod wrote: |
If you are not willing to post your records online, like Senator Kerry has done, then you will prove that you are nothing but partisan hacks working for the Buhs campaign.
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Are any of the members of this organization running for public office? Running for President of the United States?
Oh, and regarding what Senator Kerry has done? Where are the records that explain why he was reduced to Ensign? |
Whether they are running for public office or not is irrelevent to my argument. Nice straw man though.
And, Kerry left the Navy with the rank of Lieutenant (not junioir grade either).
I have no idea what you are talking about. But it does fall into the "compltely made up B.S." category into which most of the stuff you folks are saying about Kerry falls. |
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Greenhat
LCDR
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Swift Boat Veterans Refuse to Open Their Own Records. |
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| Hesiod wrote: | | Greenhat wrote: | | Hesiod wrote: |
If you are not willing to post your records online, like Senator Kerry has done, then you will prove that you are nothing but partisan hacks working for the Buhs campaign.
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Are any of the members of this organization running for public office? Running for President of the United States?
Oh, and regarding what Senator Kerry has done? Where are the records that explain why he was reduced to Ensign? |
Whether they are running for public office or not is irrelevent to my argument. Nice straw man though.
And, Kerry left the Navy with the rank of Lieutenant (not junioir grade either).
I have no idea what you are talking about. But it does fall into the "compltely made up B.S." category into which most of the stuff you folks are saying about Kerry falls. |
I suggest you do a little more research. Kerry was reduced to Ensign. Why? I don't know. Kerry hasn't released his records to explain that part. Maybe it has to do with his claimed meeting with Madame Binh (a violation of more than a few articles of the UCMJ).
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Greenhat,
I can not find any information about Kerry being busted to ensign. Where did you get that? |
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Greenhat
LCDR
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeremy Eaton wrote: | Greenhat,
I can not find any information about Kerry being busted to ensign. Where did you get that? |
It's a notation on the records from after his return from Vietnam ("continuing service at grade of Ensign").
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stumpy
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It's a notation on the records from after his return from Vietnam ("continuing service at grade of Ensign"). |
If that is from a published document, it is appropriate to provide the link. Without it, it has the same category of evidence as "hearsay". |
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James Steffes
Swiftvet Author
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 12
Location: Sun City, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: To Hediod |
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| shoebowl wrote: | You're so full of crap. One must understand that applying for the leading job in the land has it's scrutiny. I don't for one second agree with you that they have the obligation to open their records. I am simply amazed that you find this important.
What they did was honorable and beyond your scrutiny sir, what John F. Kerry did is open to debate. Because you think this is timely, doesn't make for an excuse. If it had come AFTER he was elected, I'd have wondered about thier credibility. I thank God that somebody found the courage to stand up and say "no".
If you think comparing records of one vet to another is worthwhile, you're not "in it" sir. Take the time to consider what you're thinking and then get back to the vets.
Semper Fidelis,
Don |
This is my first post and I notice the cry for release of the records of the members who spoke out against John Kerry. I spoke out against him and my records can be released (for whatever purpose it would serve) However I would say that this request would carry more weight if John Kerry himself called for the release of our records rather than someone commenting on this server. We are listening John Kerry???  |
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Craig
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Greenhat wrote: | | Jeremy Eaton wrote: | Greenhat,
I can not find any information about Kerry being busted to ensign. Where did you get that? |
It's a notation on the records from after his return from Vietnam ("continuing service at grade of Ensign"). |
Your search - "continuing service at grade of Ensign" kerry - did not match any documents. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | | Quote: | | "It was intended to be silly - a ridiculous response for a ridiculous set of accusations. " |
Silly me! |
Now you're getting it. 
| Quote: | | I really thought you were trying to use some bizarre legality to avoid responding to those points. |
It's okay - I already knew that you're delusional - no need to explain further.
| Quote: | | Remember, there's no substitute for actually addressing them and it's not too late. |
I addressed them with all the seriousness that they deserved - just like I address you, silly boy.
You may be able to overrun this board with your nonsense, but you're not going to keep the facts away from the people, no matter how many diversionary tactics you try.
John Kerry lied. He lied about his fellow soldiers and sailors. He authored a disgusting book and led a movement which made it acceptable in our culture to denigrate and ostracize an entire generation of soldiers.
John Kerry continued to lie right up through the publishing of "Tour of Duty," so his exaggerations of service can't be chalked up to "youthful indiscretion or ignorance."
John Kerry marched under the VC flag in Operations Dewey Canyon and RAW and other marches. He collaborated with the enemy. He has been publicly thanked by the enemy.
Facts - you can shout them down, but they're still going to get out to the people, whether you like it or not.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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It's only diversionary if it's irrelevant. I want to see balance between scrutiny of Kerry's Vietnam records and Bush's. Just like the mission statement of SBVT.
And SOMEONE needs to be here to call you guys on your BS and ask for sources. Like for that last post filled with what you've called "groundless accusations." And, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if those doctored photos would be prominently displayed here if critics weren't imposing a reality check.
And it's still not to late to actually address those items you dismissed with your obvious humor (which was followed up by my sarcasm). |
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95 bxl
Seaman
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Records |
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| shoebowl wrote: | These other gentlemen aren't running for the highest office in the world. They are making certain that an incompetent competitor doesn't get the bid by default. I've served in the military as have many brothers, my father and my daughter, their records are none of your concern. The only records anybody should care about are the records of one John F. Kerry.
That he refuses to provide ALL his records should be alarming enough. His answers to the questions of his military service should be incorporated into a remake of "Glengarry Glen Ross" Al Pacino would be perfect to lie as he does.
He is so obviously a liar, manipulator and all-around cheat that it begs the question of your intellect if you are prone to accept such half-truths as facts. Good lord, I have my reservations about the state of the union as there are so many well-meaning people who haven't the wisdom to see through bald-faced lies.
He is an opportunist, cashing in on the deaths of those many who we'll never see again. If you can contain your concience and look past that, good for you, but all the uncertainty aside, I know my brother came back to bigoted hatred and he'll never be the same. Shame on all of you pigs who let them down. |
| Hesiod wrote: |
They aren't running for the highest office in the land, to be sure. |
Which, of course, ends the discussion.
You know, you people hate Bush SOOOOO much that there is no lie you wouldn't tell... no failed attempt at deflection that you won't try.
You can prattle on in this vein all you like. I mean.... look at how much it's done for Kerry's polling numbers as it is?
And that someone like you, who has never served, nor will never serve, speaks very well to the reason you're here, interfering with a discussion among those who've made the sacrifice.
| Hesiod wrote: |
Sounds like a partisan sandbagging job to me. Not the work of honorable gentlemen. |
Absolute agreement... your efforts qualify on BOTH counts. |
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Greenhat
LCDR
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| stumpy wrote: | | Quote: | | It's a notation on the records from after his return from Vietnam ("continuing service at grade of Ensign"). |
If that is from a published document, it is appropriate to provide the link. Without it, it has the same category of evidence as "hearsay". |
It's on John Kerry's site, or was.
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De Oppresso Liber |
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RoadKing
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 5:49 pm Post subject: Smearing vets..... |
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Hesiod writes: If a bunch of rightwing Veterans wants to get up to a podium and smear a fellow veteran for partisan political reasons, they have every right to do so, UNFORTUNATELY. (emphasis mine)
Gee, I feel the same way about Leftwing Veterans who get to the podium and smear HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of their fellow veterans........for PARTISAN POLITICAL REASONS. Anyone come to mind ???
RK |
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