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JK PO3
Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 259
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:47 pm Post subject: Missouri Plan to Let Military Cast Votes by E-Mail Draws Cri |
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These two groups, National Committee for Voting Integrity and American Way Foundation (a visit to their web sites shows their members and supporters) are linked to Kerry and the Democratic National Committee and oppose electronic voting for unfounded fears and to create paranoia with the American public. Let's not forget that the DNC and Al Gore attempted to prevent the counting of votes from service personnel out of the country during the last election. A tactic now is to discredit the election results even before voting and to use every conspiracy approach possible including tampering with electronic voting.
JK
Missouri Plan to Let Military Cast Votes by E-Mail Draws Criticism
By Jo Becker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, August 27, 2004; Page A10
A plan to make the presidential battleground of Missouri the first state to allow military voters serving in combat zones such as Iraq to cast their absentee ballots via e-mail is renewing concerns about the security of online voting.
Missouri Secretary of State Matt Blunt, a Republican running for governor, announced the plan Wednesday, saying that "simplifying the voting process for these heroes is the least we can do." The move surprised some computer security experts and voting watchdog groups, who said yesterday that the new rules could lead to Election Day fraud.
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Under a deal with the Defense Department, Blunt's office said, Missouri voters serving in designated combat areas will have the option of filling out absentee ballots, scanning them into a computer file and e-mailing the scanned document back to the Defense Department. The department will fax the ballot to local Missouri election officials.
Missouri is the first state to adopt such a system, according to the Defense Department, which sees it as a way to ensure that mail delays do not disenfranchise military voters. "This provides an alternative . . . for citizens who believe the regular absentee ballot cannot be received, voted and returned by mail in time to be counted," said Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke, a department spokeswoman.
In February, the Defense Department dropped a $22 million pilot plan to test Internet voting for 100,000 U.S. military workers and civilians overseas after a panel of scientists identified security concerns. The agency said it could not ensure the legitimacy of votes cast online.
Missouri's system is different, Krenke said, because it is not entirely based on the Internet. The ballots are signed and then scanned before being e-mailed so local election officials will be able to compare voters' signatures to ones on file.
Service members who use the system will forfeit keeping their ballot secret; the Defense Department and county officials will know the candidates chosen. Krenke said the military will use fax numbers to create an audit trail, and all ballots returned to local election officials will contain an official cover sheet. The type of e-mail software will depend on what is available in the field, she said.
The state has not done an independent study of the new system's security, said Blunt spokesman Spence Jackson. "We trust the military," he said.
But Bruce Schneier, a computer security expert on the board of the National Committee for Voting Integrity, said that the public has a right to more details about how the system will work. How will independent observers ensure that the Defense Department does not "lose ballots?" he asked. "There's been no discussion, no audits, no information about how will it prevent phony votes or hacking. Missouri is setting itself up to be the next Florida."
Elliot M. Mincberg, legal director for the People for the American Way Foundation, said he is concerned service members will feel pressured by commanders and colleagues to give up their right to vote in secret. "We are going to look closely at this," he said. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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I don't believe it - they're putting the screws to military people AGAIN!!!
Is anyone in that campaign thinking? They have already ticked off a good many of the vets/active duty with their attacks on the Swifts. Now, resorting to Gore's underhanded tactics?
What next? They gonna start smearing the POW's at www.stolenhonor.com, too? ![Confused](images/smiles/icon_confused.gif) _________________ ~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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nickb Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 Jul 2004 Posts: 122
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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you have got to be kidding. voting by e-mail? no thank you. I spent several hours last night removing a trojan horse from my computer, which is protected by anti virus software, a firewall, and 2 different spyware blockers.
somehow I would doubt the security of any e-mail voting system. |
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SteamSnipe Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 75 Location: Great Lakes, Il
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:16 pm Post subject: You Think That's Scary |
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The Oregon election is all done by mail now, and look at what ACT has to say about that:
Quote: | Progress so infuses the Oregon mindset that here, even the chairman of the state Republican Party refers to himself as a "progressive." What the Japanese are to technology, Oregonians feel their state is to government: the place that's always just a little bit ahead. For a relatively young state, Oregon has accumulated a disproportionate share of national firsts (many of which are less objectionable than its culinary invention, the Gardenburger). At the beginning of the 20th century, Oregon pioneered direct democracy as the first state to institute the initiative, the referendum, the recall, and (don't tell Alan Keyes) the popular election of U.S. senators.
More recently, it has continued to boldly go where no state has gone before. It passed the nation's first limited-growth law in the 1970s, and it became the first state to legalize physician-assisted suicide, approved by Oregon voters in 1994 and 1997.
For the presidential election, Oregon brings us another first: It has moved up Election Day by 2 1/2 weeks. Four years ago, Oregon voters participated in the first-ever U.S. presidential election in which the balloting was conducted entirely by mail. (To make balloting more convenient, Oregon voted in 1998 to conduct all of its elections by mail—using what most states think of as "absentee" ballots.) This year, they're doing it again, and the ballots get mailed to voters on Oct. 15.
Instead of carrying out a 12-hour get-out-the-vote operation, political campaigns, parties, and interest groups in Oregon will muster a 19-day GOTV drive.
"You need to reach those people immediately." America Coming Together, the liberal, George Soros-funded 527 group, will dispatch teams in minivans every day to collect ballots from the voters ACT has identified or registered. |
If the thought of ACT, MoveOn, and ANSWER handling ballots isn't enough to make you retch, you have a far stronger stomach than I. |
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Ohio Voter PO2
Joined: 09 Aug 2004 Posts: 360
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: You Think That's Scary |
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There will be no more free elections if we vote by email. I can send a dozen email from my computer and they would all appear to come from different people. No thank you.
The governor probably meant well, but he is just one of many in office that has no working knowledge about computers and the Internet.
[quote="SteamSnipe"]The Oregon election is all done by mail now, and look at what ACT has to say about that: |
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Steve Z Rear Admiral
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 687 Location: West Hartford CT
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:51 pm Post subject: Votes by E-mail |
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In all fairness, E-mail voting might not be such a great idea, because it opens the door wide open to fraud. It would be pitifully easy for someone to log in under several different E-mail addresses and vote several times, using pseudonyms. Since "dirty tricks" are not the exclusive property of Richard Nixon, but are also used on the left, E-mail voting fraud could throw the election either way unfairly.
In the event of a close election, who would bother going to check whether the names and addresses corresponding to E-mail voters actually correspond to real people, and not somebody's dead uncle or dog or cat, or somebody already registered in another state? After all the mess with the Florida recount in 2000, could you imagine trying to check all this by December 12, or whatever the deadline is this year? _________________ The traitor will crater! |
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bjornejack Seaman Recruit
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 4 Location: San Antonio, TX
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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In actuality, this type of voting is probably going to be less likely to allow fraud than the electronic voting that we have here in San Antonio -- with the Missouri e-mail voting, the ballot is scanned in and that is what constitutes the vote, not the e-mail address it's sent from. If the scanned document can be encrypted (which it can), it can't be tampered along the way, and would presumably contain the voter's registration number or some other identifier, thus insuring that only one vote per person is counted. In San Antonio, by contrast, the electronic voting has no paper trail. Thus, any good programmer who can gain access to the program can alter the results. Also, a Florida-type "recount" here in San Antonio appears to be impossible. |
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MassInd Seaman
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 157
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:49 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | "You need to reach those people immediately." America Coming Together, the liberal, George Soros-funded 527 group, will dispatch teams in minivans every day to collect ballots from the voters ACT has identified or registered" |
You think the 'progressive' Oregonians would allow another 527, say SBVT, to handle ballots? Yea, right. I think this is outrageous.
On the subject of internet voting. I'm agin it. THE INTERNET IS NOT SECURE. Hackers are very sophisticated, and like to go after big challenges. That's why they attack internet security sites (and bring them down!). Most internet security people are against it. I can see it now; some 15 yr. old kid decides the election, or something hidden deep inside of Microsoft OS - voila - President Bill Gates ![Razz](images/smiles/icon_razz.gif) |
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FredRum Lt.Jg.
Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 118 Location: Reston, VA
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:37 am Post subject: |
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nickb wrote: | you have got to be kidding. voting by e-mail? no thank you. I spent several hours last night removing a trojan horse from my computer, which is protected by anti virus software, a firewall, and 2 different spyware blockers.
somehow I would doubt the security of any e-mail voting system. | Somehow I don't think that the Pentagon is sending email from these personnel via AOL. When I worked at Naval Sea Systems Command in the 90's, even mail going from one computer to another 10 feet away was sent in encrypted form over a private network. That is a far cry from going out over "the internet". _________________
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Me#1You#10 Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004 Posts: 6503
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:41 am Post subject: |
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Moving to geedunk shortly.
Thanks |
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nickb Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 Jul 2004 Posts: 122
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 11:56 am Post subject: |
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FredRum wrote: | nickb wrote: | you have got to be kidding. voting by e-mail? no thank you. I spent several hours last night removing a trojan horse from my computer, which is protected by anti virus software, a firewall, and 2 different spyware blockers.
somehow I would doubt the security of any e-mail voting system. | Somehow I don't think that the Pentagon is sending email from these personnel via AOL. When I worked at Naval Sea Systems Command in the 90's, even mail going from one computer to another 10 feet away was sent in encrypted form over a private network. That is a far cry from going out over "the internet". |
I have little faith in a "secure" network between Iraq and the U.S.A.
I used to work for one of the largest banks on the east coast, in their tech department. for something as important as a vote, I'd rather stick to the old fashinoed way, thanks. absentee ballots work fine. |
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nickb Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 Jul 2004 Posts: 122
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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I saw this and it had to do with e-mail voting and it rasied my hackles a bit. not just e-mail, but voting by fax...
I know it's in the NYT, but still..
Denying the Troops a Secret Ballot
Published: September 3, 2004
Members of the military will be allowed to vote this year by faxing or e-mailing their ballots - after waiving their right to a secret ballot. Beyond this fundamentally undemocratic requirement, the Electronic Transmission Service, as it's known, has far too many problems to make it reliable, starting with the political partisanship of the contractor running it. The Defense Department is making matters worse by withholding basic information about the service, and should suspend it immediately.
The Defense Department is encouraging soldiers to use absentee ballots or fax votes directly to local officials, when possible. But it also provides an alternative: Omega Technologies, a private contractor, will accept soldiers' faxed and e-mailed ballots on a toll-free line, and then send them to the appropriate local elections office. Handling ballots is always sensitive, but especially so when, as in this program, they are not secret. An obvious concern is that votes for a particular candidate could be reported lost in transit, or altered.
snip
Nor is it clear that voting by nonsecret ballots is legal. In Missouri, one of two states that will allow votes to be e-mailed through the Pentagon this year, the Missouri Supreme Court held as early as 1895 that its State Constitution requires that voting be by secret ballot. North Dakota has also approved the use of the e-mail voting system for military personnel; about 20 states will allow them to vote by fax.
I didn't like the part about waiving the right to a secret ballot. Just my opinion.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/03/opinion/03fri2.html |
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Mooncusser Lieutenant
Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 245 Location: Missouri
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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I am not one to make it "easy" to vote.
My guess is that if the American people new how many non-citizens vote and how many double voters there are, they would faint. _________________ MACV '64...65
Thu Thua, Long An
I actually won the election before I lost it.
"It is a good day to fight! It is a good day to die! Strong hearts, brave hearts to the front! Weak hearts and cowards to the rear!" (Crazy Horse) |
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Steve Z Rear Admiral
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 687 Location: West Hartford CT
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:17 pm Post subject: Electronic Voting |
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If Bjornejack from San Antonio believes that electronic voting is open to fraud, here's a good test: If Kerry wins Texas, there has been fraud! _________________ The traitor will crater! |
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