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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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 Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 4:37 am Post subject: Re: Missing first page. |
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| CJ wrote: | I have reached the following conclusions wrt the missing fitrep page 1:
<snip>
This page two shows a brutal fitrep that probably had an equally bad page 1. I can only conclude that something bad happened in COSDIV13 and Kerry was transferred.
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By God you're right on that one CJ. All you swifties out there check out page 2 (Kerry p.24) of LCDR Streuli's fitrep on Kerry and see what you think. That sure doesn't look like career enhancement material to me. What about it Nolan? And where's page 1 Nolan?
Is Kerry trying to bury Page 1 of his tenure with Coastal 13 in Cat Lo?
Could that POSSIBLY be why they've even mis-identified Cat Lo as Cam Ranh Bay on Kerry's website?
Does Kerry not want to even HEAR the name Cat Lo?
One other possible correction for your site CJ.
According to Swiftboats.net, PCF44 was assigned to Coastal 11, An Thoi from 11/68-4/69. If that's correct, it seems unlikely that Kerry was OIC of PCF 44 during his tenure with Coastal 13.
Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Fri May 28, 2004 10:58 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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CJ
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 2:45 pm Post subject: What Boats where? |
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We know that Kerry got PCF-94 on 29 Jan 69 after Ltjg Peck was wounded. If PCF-44 was in Coastal Div 11, then he could have been on that boat only 08 dec 68 - 13 dec 69, or for the week or two when he went into 11 for the second time and before transferring to 94.
That leaves a big question mark as to what he was doing in 13 for 3 or 4 weeks.
I would take swiftboats.net with a grain of salt though. They show Kerry on PCF-66 which we know is wrong.
One more thing....Page 29 of the fitrep file is an addendum to a fitrep (page 2 with page 1 missing). It is undated except for a stamp of Nov 28, 1969. I assume that is the date it entered his file. The wording is exactly the wording contained in the 18 Dec 69 fitrep and is signed by Elliot. Now, is this an indicator of another fitrep that is now missing or is it a preliminary communication to the promotion board that was meeting the end of Nov 69? If it was a different fitrep, I can only assume that Elliot was preassured to produce a more favorable one resulting in the 18 Dec 69 document. May be innocent though... |
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Dave Crosby
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 11
Location: Cedar City, Utah
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 10:17 pm Post subject: Search For Truth |
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Search For Truth
A suggestion from an old researcher:
If you can't find ancient information on an individual, look for his known associates!
Where were his little band of brothers?
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He also serves who only stands and waits. |
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coffee
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It was after Kerry left Hibbard’s command that he was assigned to command the swift boats in the region where Elliott was commander. This is when another incident reported by Kerry comes under fire by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. In this incident Kerry is unofficially credited with leading a confrontation that resulted in 20 enemies killed in action. Elliott said it was required that commanding officers file a fitness report for the commanders of the swift boats. Kerry was in Cat Lau, serving under Lt. Joseph Streuli, when the incident involving the alleged 20 enemies kills occurred. However, because Kerry was then immediately assigned to Elliott’s command area in An Thoi, it was necessary for him to file a concurrent fitness report. Elliott said Streuli sent him the fitness report and he signed off on it along with some of his own comments. “I have no way of knowing whether John Kerry was involved in an incident that claimed 20 enemy killed,” he said. “He was not under my command at that time. I can say I never remember it. I simply signed Joe Streuli’s report as forwarding officer. But, I will say that if such an instance occurred, it is the only time in 10 years that a swift boat was involved in a fight that claimed that many lives.” Recently, Streuli has commented that he simply does not recall the incident. |
I just read this in an article today. Perhaps it will clear up some of the confusion about the fitness reports. |
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Me#1You#10
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Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| Folks...I don't know how the rest of you read this, but I got a feeling there's a story about Kerry and his tenure with Coastal 13 in Cat Lo that's pulitzer material. |
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Richard
Ensign
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 53
Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | | Folks...I don't know how the rest of you read this, but I got a feeling there's a story about Kerry and his tenure with Coastal 13 in Cat Lo that's pulitzer material. |
I've always felt that Kerry's service in VN was extremely problematic.
I also took a close look at the ribbons he was wearing while testifying before the Senate. I am 95% certain that the decorations he was wearing on his fatigues were probably a prop. For example, he is wearing the PUC. But he was never awarded the PUC. He had to have his records corrected in 2001 to show he was due the award. So why was he wearing it in 1972.
You can see a PDF of his corrected 214 at: http://www.johnkerry.com/about/DD-215_Correction.pdf
You can read my article about his ribbons at: http://www.thepublicview.com/tpvarticles/kerrymedals.asp
So, I have to agree with you. I think there is something wrong in his Vietnam service. His fitreps don't tell the full story. In fact they arouse more suspicion than anything else.
Richard
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Last edited by Richard on Fri May 28, 2004 4:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | | Folks...I don't know how the rest of you read this, but I got a feeling there's a story about Kerry and his tenure with Coastal 13 in Cat Lo that's pulitzer material. |
If Cat Lo = Vung Tau .....
Kerry reminisced about Vung Tau with an AP writer Jan 19, 1998 on a visit to Vietnam.
http://www.s-t.com/daily/01-98/01-19-98/a05sr031.htm
Kerry, in Vietnam, remembers days as 'cannon fodder' By Ian Stewart, Associated Press writer
VUNG TAU, Vietnam -- U.S. Sen. John Kerry, on an official visit to Vietnam that ended this weekend, also took a tour into his past.
Kerry first arrived in Vietnam in December, 1968, the 25-year-old commander of a Navy patrol boat sent to the coastal town of Vung Tau to run search-and-destroy missions into the Mekong Delta.
He felt like "cannon fodder," he said.
"It was the greatest place of contradiction," Kerry, 54, told The Associated Press. "We would come into port, go into this magnificent French town and then the next day, boom, back on patrol and back into it."
~snip~
"It was a wonderful time in all its craziness"
~snip~
During the war, Kerry, with his crew and their mascot -- a pet dog nicknamed V.C. -- ran countless missions through Vietnam's interior waterways. "We went on patrol throughout the Mekong Delta, up the Saigon River, wherever," he recalled. Once he guided his Navy Patrol Craft Fast-94 to the Cambodian border and beyond -- a route not unlike the journey
immortalized in Francis Ford Coppola's epic
"Apocalypse Now."
When on search-and-destroy missions, Kerry's boat and as many as 12 others went on the hunt for Vietcong insurgents. "You'd go into a free-fire zone, maybe to draw fire or to insert troops. Other times we'd beach and go on land to fight," he said. It was shortly after he was reassigned from Vung Tau, in February of 1969 when PCF-94 came under fierce attack. A B-40 rocket slammed into the patrol boat.
Kerry maneuvered the craft toward shore and beached near the enemy position. The young lieutenant charged onto shore, chased a Vietcong guerrilla and killed him.
~snip~
this is just part of the artical |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| kate wrote: | If Cat Lo = Vung Tau .....
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Correct Kate.....
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 3:41 am Post subject: |
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from what I've been reading from you Vets
on here...doesn't seem like beaching those boats,
as he says he did, was supposed to be part of the plans |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 4:19 am Post subject: Re: Missing first page. |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | | CJ wrote: | I have reached the following conclusions wrt the missing fitrep page 1:
<snip>
This page two shows a brutal fitrep that probably had an equally bad page 1. I can only conclude that something bad happened in COSDIV13 and Kerry was transferred.
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By God you're right on that one CJ. All you swifties out there check out page 2 (Kerry p.24) of LCDR Streuli's fitrep on Kerry and see what you think. That sure doesn't look like career enhancement material to me. |
Can someone tell me what is the date range that is covered by this missing page 1? And would it be signed by Streuli or Elliot?
Thanks.
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 4:52 am Post subject: Re: Missing first page. |
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| Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: |
Can someone tell me what is the date range that is covered by this missing page 1? And would it be signed by Streuli or Elliot?
Thanks. |
NNN, it WAS, almost assuredly, composed and signed by LCDR Streuli on 28 Jan 69, apparently in a timely fashion. However, given the fact that page 1 is MISSING, and there's no source to establish the exact date of Kerry's transfer from Coastal 13 BACK to Coastal 11, we can only estimate the time period pf service with Coastal 13 to be from 14 Dec 68 till sometime prior to 22 Jan 69, the date Kerry attended the Zumwault meeting with other Coastal 11 officers.
When Kerry was detached from Coastal 11 to stateside, that created a need for a "detachment of officer" fitrep which should have been accomplished independently by LCDR Elliot. At this point, all we have is Elliot's "endorsement", some 2 months later, of Streuli's fitrep of Kerry. (that's the "orphaned page 2" [p.24 in Kerry's presentation]), or the 9 month late submission which, strangely, is designated as covering the period 14 Dec 68 - 26 Mar 69. This seems to be unorthodox and odd, and others in the thread have suggested that something is not right about Kerry's final fitrep. I concur.
Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Fri May 28, 2004 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CJ
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 2:54 pm Post subject: coffee |
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| coffee wrote: | | Quote: | | It was after Kerry left Hibbard’s command that he was assigned to command the swift boats in the region where Elliott was commander. This is when another incident reported by Kerry comes under fire by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. In this incident Kerry is unofficially credited with leading a confrontation that resulted in 20 enemies killed in action. Elliott said it was required that commanding officers file a fitness report for the commanders of the swift boats. Kerry was in Cat Lau, serving under Lt. Joseph Streuli, when the incident involving the alleged 20 enemies kills occurred. However, because Kerry was then immediately assigned to Elliott’s command area in An Thoi, it was necessary for him to file a concurrent fitness report. Elliott said Streuli sent him the fitness report and he signed off on it along with some of his own comments. “I have no way of knowing whether John Kerry was involved in an incident that claimed 20 enemy killed,” he said. “He was not under my command at that time. I can say I never remember it. I simply signed Joe Streuli’s report as forwarding officer. But, I will say that if such an instance occurred, it is the only time in 10 years that a swift boat was involved in a fight that claimed that many lives.” Recently, Streuli has commented that he simply does not recall the incident. |
I just read this in an article today. Perhaps it will clear up some of the confusion about the fitness reports. |
Can you provide a reference for this? |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| coffee wrote: | | Quote: | | However, because Kerry was then immediately assigned to Elliott’s command area in An Thoi, it was necessary for him to file a concurrent fitness report. |
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Since my original post, I've been re-considering this statement.
Would someone please educate me as to the nature of a concurrent officer fitrep?
And I'd also like to echo CJ's request for a source Coffee?
Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Sat May 29, 2004 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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coffee
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And I'd also like to echo CJ's request for a source Coffee? |
See www.laurelstar.com
Click on article on lower left. |
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CJ
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 3:48 am Post subject: |
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Coffee - thanks for the help.
To all - The goal of sportsmenforkerry.com was to provide truthful information related to John Kerry's words and votes related to the Second Amendment. With interest overlap with sportsmen, I decided to add a section on Vietnam to the site. The goal is to be accurate. If the site ends up pointing out the shortcomings of Kerry's career and the inaccuracies in his statements, that is only his fault. If the site is wrong, he only needs to release more information and I would be happy to correct it. If the site is correct, then he should not be shooting his horn so much. |
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