SwiftVets.com Forum Index SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Lehman says--never saw it,never signed it,never approved it.

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SwiftVets.com Forum Index -> Resources & Research
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SBD
Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:32 pm    Post subject: Lehman says--never saw it,never signed it,never approved it. Reply with quote

Kerry citation a 'total mystery' to ex-Navy chief
http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-lips28.html

Former Navy Secretary John Lehman has no idea where a Silver Star citation displayed on Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's campaign Web site came from, he said Friday. The citation appears over Lehman's signature.

"It is a total mystery to me. I never saw it. I never signed it. I never approved it. And the additional language it contains was not written by me," he said.

The additional language varied from the two previous citations, signed first by Adm. Elmo Zumwalt and then Adm. John Hyland, which themselves differ. The new material added in the Lehman citation reads in part: "By his brave actions, bold initiative, and unwavering devotion to duty, Lieutenant (jg) Kerry reflected great credit upon himself...."

Asked how the citation could have been executed over his signature without his knowledge, Lehman said: "I have no idea. I can only imagine they were signed by an autopen." The autopen is a device often used in the routine execution of executive documents in government.

Kerry senior adviser Michael Meehan could not be reached for comment on Kerry's records.


Thomas Lipscomb is chairman of the Center for the Digital Future in New York.


SBD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nexialist
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:37 pm    Post subject: now this is getting more interesting every day... Reply with quote

Now where did that revision come from?

No wonder the worm does not want to release his records.

You Swifties are John Kerry's worst nightmare. Truly what goes around, comes around, eventually

BTW this is my first post....I'm a Viet-nam era vet 66-69 but spent all my tour in Germany with the 3d Infantry Division.

Dan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ArmyWife
Lieutenant


Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 218

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the rewritten citations and the DD215 to amend the DD214 makes you wonder just how many documents there might be in Kerry's complete, unreleased records. This guy must have been submitting requests for YEARS.

Or, maybe he just waited till the Navy needed a vote in the Senate now and then, and he presuaded some bureaucrat to slip a change through thinking that what they were doing was for the greater good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ETEE
Ensign


Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 64
Location: New Iberia,La

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While others have researched in various areas to verify Kerrys "story", I have been doing a study of one of the key team players in the Kerry Campaign and a lifelong Kerry friend. Wade Sanders.

Lt.jg.Wade Sanders, an attorney, met John Kerry at Swiftboat School in Coronado Beach. They became fast friends. Sanders went on to Skipper PCF 98 and acquired a Silver Star and Purple Heart. Sanders attended both Kerry weddings. He was appointed Secretary of the Navy for Reserve Affairs, by Clinton in 1993. Kerry did the swearing in ceremony. Kerry held a fundraiser for Sanders Congress run in San Diego in 2000. Sanders lost. Sanders joined Team Kerry.

From the Lehman Article:
Quote:
Asked how the citation could have been executed over his signature without his knowledge, Lehman said: "I have no idea. I can only imagine they were signed by an autopen." The autopen is a device often used in the routine execution of executive documents in government.


Apparently, all it would take to manufacture a Citation is Letterhead stationery from the SecNav, an autopen, Lehmans signature template, and the ability to direct the citation into a Navy file. Nothing that an Under Secretary of the Navy wouldn't have access to.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SBD
Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There he is!!




WADE Sanders, shown at the Nevada Democratic Party headquarters, served with John Kerry during the Vietnam War.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wing Wiper
Rear Admiral


Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. You're on to something here. If you could prove that Sanders was involved in falsifying documents for Kerry, and it broke in the mainstream media, that would start quite an investigation. Your story makes perfect sense. Stay on that guy, this is what everyone's been looking for.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ETEE
Ensign


Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 64
Location: New Iberia,La

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more one looks at the record of Wade Sanders, in relationship to the appointment given him by Clinton, the more curious the story gets.

Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Manpower & Reserve Affairs. It is a bit down the scale on the block chart. The position reports to the Under Secretary of the Navy................but that's where the appointment begins to get strange.

Wade Sanders retired as a Captain. A four stripper. These jobs (Navy Under Secretaries) are not given to Captains. They are the "plums" to which Senior Admirals and Major Generals in the Marine Corps are granted. Captains do not stand a chance of receiving such appointments. Yet Clinton appointed Sanders, not a Senior General or Admiral? Who recommended him for the job?Kerry?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hmminCanada
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please check out my post at the end of thread regarding the missing documents at the top of the index page.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SBD
Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well apparently he was so excited about Wade Sanders new job, that he ran a red light racing to a military base to attend the swearing-in of his Vietnam war buddy now becoming an assistant secretary of the Navy.

The Boston Globe, March 22, 1994
Kerry at 50 - an inside player




John F. Kerry ran a red light. Tires screeching, he swerved his aging Dodge through a maze of traffic on Pennsylvania Avenue, his eyes darting from the crowded street to the dashboard clock.

The junior senator from Massachusetts was not, as conventional wisdom might suggest, in hot pursuit of a camera crew. Instead, he was racing to a military base to attend the swearing-in of a Vietnam war buddy now becoming an assistant secretary of the Navy.

There was little publicity value to the event several weeks ago, and Kerry still needed to get to a White House ceremony. But this was not the same young Turk whose lust for the klieg lights once earned him the nickname "Live Shot."

This was the new John Forbes Kerry, just turned 50: more balanced, more accomplished and measured - yet a man whose pace and passion seem even more urgent than when he entered the Senate 10 years ago.

"I feel the clock ticking," he said in a recent interview. "I feel like I have to get things done, that I can't equivocate, that I have to lay it all out there."

After decades of bucking the system - from his early years as a war protester to his Senate probes into the Iran-contra case and the BCCI bank scandal - Kerry's aides and colleagues said he has tempered his instinctive role as an outsider and embraced the power of moving government from within. In the process, he has reshaped his priorities.

"I've learned a lot about what's important to get excited about and what to let slide," he said. "I've grown up a little bit."

One friend, Wade Sanders, described Kerry as the same guy he knew a generation ago, when they were fighting the Viet Cong and winning medals for bravery.

But his critics, including many veterans and POW/MIA families who opposed his push to end a 30-year trade ban against Vietnam, assert that personal ambition compels Kerry more than a thirst for legislative achievement. They describe him as aloof and prone to occasional arrogance.

Others see a new Kerry, an emerging leader who is quietly gaining the stature that has long eluded him in the Senate. Several colleagues have mentioned him as a possible candidate to succeed the departing Sen. George J. Mitchell of Maine as majority leader.

"You don't hear people say anymore, as they did when he took on BCCI, that Kerry is just being weird again," said David J. Leiter, his administrative assistant. "They've seen him take on some unpopular fights and win. In the process, he has become more confident and become a better advocate. He's gotten good at taking colleagues aside."

He did so last October when Sen. Joseph R. Biden, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, introduced a $ 5.9 billion crime bill. Kerry told Biden the amount was woefully inadequate, that $ 25 billion was needed.

Biden said Kerry's goal was honorable but unattainable. So did Sen. Robert C. Byrd, chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, who controls such funds.

But rather than announce an alternative bill, as colleagues said he once would have done, Kerry doggedly worked the system, lobbying key players from President Clinton on down. By early November, Byrd had found $ 22.3 billion for the crime bill.

"I must publicly acknowledge to" Kerry "that he turned out to be right and I was wrong," Biden told the Senate. "He and I both wanted a $ 20 billion-plus bill."

So did Clinton, who praised Kerry in Boston last week for his work on the crime bill.

"John Kerry was the first member of Congress who convinced me we might actually be able to persuade people of both parties to approve a bill in the range of $ 22 billion," Clinton said at a Democratic fund-raiser at the Park Plaza. "The whole country is in his debt, as am I and are you."

As Kerry talks tougher than ever about crime, other aspects of his liberal philosophy seem to be shifting as well. His stance on welfare has moderated, and he is conspicuously absent among the supporters of President Clinton's health-care bill.

Indeed, Kerry surprised Sen. Edward M. Kennedy and Hillary Rodham Clinton in December when he criticized the plan at a forum in Boston, suggesting it might be too ambitious to work. He also questioned how the bill would affect Boston's hospitals, where "kings, sheiks and princes" flock for medical care.

In a stern rebuke, Mitchell, a staunch supporter of Clinton's plan, said at the conference: "It is irrelevant that kings, sheiks and princes of fabulous wealth come here to get their medicine. We must see to it that the same quality of care . . . is available to a single mother and her child in northern Maine and to broken families in the inner cities of America."

Kerry said in a recent interview that he is committed to universal health coverage. But he said he continues to harbor reservations about the breadth of Clinton's bill.

Critics at the conference suggested that Kerry's health-care stance reflected the influence of Teresa Heinz, the widow of Sen. John Heinz 3d, a Pennsylvania Republican and heir to the H. J. Heinz Co. fortune, who died in a 1991 plane crash. She and Kerry have been romantically involved since last year.

Kerry rejected the notion that the relationship has affected his views, but he said it has improved his personal life.

"I'm like most single people who want to have a real relationship," said Kerry, a divorced father of two daughters. "But it's not easy, particularly in public life. There are enormous restraints, ranging from schedule to media intrusion to workload to lifestyle." So far, Kerry said, he is not considering marriage.

Kerry's longtime allies, including former Gov. Michael S. Dukakis, with whom he served as lieutenant governor, said Kerry has gained the stature to pursue a more powerful political role in Washington.

His detractors believe otherwise, particularly if the role were majority leader. They said he lacks the patience for the job's administrative drudgery, the amiability to deal with the demands of the Senate's widely disparate personalities - and the votes to win the seat.

Kerry said he has not ruled out running for majority leader but that he has rejected feelers about joining the Clinton administration, perhaps in the Cabinet.

A Cabinet job would require Kerry to resign from the Senate, opening the door for Gov. Weld to appoint a Republican to his seat. Kerry has said he would not take such a risk.

"He may end up being in the Senate for a long time," said Rev. Robert F. Drinan, a professor at Georgetown Law School and former US representative from Massachusetts. "But he's done very well in life. Eventually, he will be in the Cabinet."

It was Drinan, in the 1970 Democratic congressional primary caucus, who defeated Kerry in his first run for office. Told that turning 50 has set Kerry racing against time, Drinan said he should not fret.

"I was 50 when I came to Congress," Drinan said. "He's got a whole career ahead of him."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote=ETEE]The more one looks at the record of Wade Sanders, in relationship to the appointment given him by Clinton, the more curious the story gets[/quote]

He did make Clinton look good by increasing the crime bill from 5 billion to over 20 billion just a few weeks before this mad race to his friends new swearing-in.

SBD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kate
Admin


Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lehman was Secretary of the Navy 1981-1987,
so the versions with his signature would have to be before
Sanders was Asst Sect Navy in 1993?

Did Saunders have other position/connections before the ASN job?
_________________
.
one of..... We The People
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SBD
Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kate wrote:
Lehman was Secretary of the Navy 1981-1987,
so the versions with his signature would have to be before
Sanders was Asst Sect Navy in 1993?

Did Saunders have other position/connections before the ASN job?


You're assuming that the autopen was destroyed after Lehman left. We all know how well government agencies update their computer systems. At this point, anything is possible since Lehman clearly was not aware of it.

SBD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jonpom
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 2
Location: State College, PA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the life of me, I just don’t understand why this hasn’t gotten more play. If I have it right, Kerry’s citation was revised by John Lehman AFTER Lehman had left his position as Secy of Navy. Regardless of the timing aspect, Lehman emphatically says he knows nothing of the award, and speculates that his signature was executed via autopen.

I worked for a company that used an autopen machine and all that was required to reproduce someone’s signature was to insert the individual’s signature template into a machine and position the document to which the signature would be written, just like an original signature. This is a clear case of forgery AND identity theft if Lehman did not authorize it!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SBD
Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonpom wrote:
I worked for a company that used an autopen machine and all that was required to reproduce someone’s signature was to insert the individual’s signature template into a machine and position the document to which the signature would be written, just like an original signature. This is a clear case of forgery AND identity theft if Lehman did not authorize it!



I bet Lehman was the First Secretary of the Navy that used an Autopen. His would have been the oldest signature on file that could be used.

SBD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rdtf
CNO


Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this the same Sanders currently connected to moveon.org? I saw that on ABC last week, all their connections to 527s. He should resign!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Warthog
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:55 pm    Post subject: Wade Sanders Reply with quote

[http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040613195930656/url]
From The New Soldier, VVAW Stories:
Wade R. Sanders Lt. Coastal Division 13 "Black Cat Division" NAVFORV May '68-May '69

In July 1968 I was in a swift boat operation patrolling the mouth of the Bo-De River -- a known VC area. At the time we were operating under the standard naval rules of engagement. There was a specific rule stating we were not to fire unless fired upon.

As we came out of the river, my gunners mate observed two individuals jumping a small stream near the river's mouth, about 200 yards away. They were unarmed. He didn't fire.

There was no reason to take action. No action was taken.

I sent a message in to my operational commander -- a routine report:

*Personnel observed moving. For your information, this unit while patrolling passed out of river, and observed two personnel running. Attempted to notify sector, but unable to establish communication. Personnel visible for only 10-15 seconds. No action taken by this unit.*

My immediate superior received the following reply:


*Reference A indicates possibility that Black Cat Division acting like *censored* cat division. Get this guy squared away. Area noted by reference A is definite Indian Country. Regardless of communication problem of sector, good judgment indicates that personnel should have been taken under fire.

Headquarters* [/url]

Warthog
HM/2. USN
K&L 3/5, 1st Mardiv, 1969
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SwiftVets.com Forum Index -> Resources & Research All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group