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BrianC
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Joined: 02 Jun 2004
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 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:39 pm Post subject: A Question about Kerry's Bronze Star... |
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Recently John Kerry provided a few select pages from his service record, and made them available via his campaign web site.
Among them was a PDF version of his Bronze Star award certificate.
It was signed by Navy Secretary John F. Lehman.
I found this to be rather curious, since Mr. Lehman didn't become SecNav until January 1981, under President Reagan.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Veterans? |
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Marine4life
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 591
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Post traumatic medal syndrome I guess. You are correct that Lehman was not Secnav until 1981, Has me curious, falsly parading as having a medal that you don't really have is very serious stuff. I would also guestion Lehman as to why he falsly awarded it in the 80's. The Navajo that served in raising the flag at Iwo Jima didn't get his medal until he was dead, then it was awarded to his family. So I have seen delayed ceremonies but Kerry is alive and well. And it would seem to me that if a medal of this nature was awarded post combat that there would have been a large ceremony, mega new's coverage.
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Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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It wasn't John Lehman that awarded the Bronze Star, he just wrote one of the two or three versions of the citation for that award. It was re-written at least once.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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Marine4life
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Cool Navy but why was it rewritten? Seems to me that a rewrite would indicate that it needed to be spruced up a little. All the stuff that I got is in the same text and ink that I received it in. I don't know if Kerry lost his certificate and needed a new copy I could see it, but other than that I dunno. I would not have lost something like that.
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Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes. |
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BrianC
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Navy_Navy_Navy"]It wasn't John Lehman that awarded the Bronze Star, he just wrote one of the two or three versions of the citation for that award. It was re-written at least once.[/quote]
.......
I find that to be believable, and so it certainly raises more questions than it answers.
"two or three versions of the citation"? Why would 2 or 3 versions be necessary? |
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BrianC
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Still looking for an answer as to why Kerry has a Bronze Star certificate signed by the SecDef Lehman... |
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colmurph
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Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 74
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| BrianC wrote: | | Still looking for an answer as to why Kerry has a Bronze Star certificate signed by the SecDef Lehman... |
It could be a replacement certificate. I've written for a replacement for mine and as the original was signed over 35 years ago, both the original signers, SecDef and the Division Commander are probably deceased. Highly doubt that it will have the correct signatures on it whenever I get it.
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CO ODA-14, B Co. 3d SFG (Abn) 66-68
CO A Co. 4/3 INF, 11th LIB, Americal Div. 68-69 |
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JN173
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Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 341
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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 I got it. It hasn't his ribbons or medals he threw over the fence.
It was his certificare and he had to get a replacement. 
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A Grunt
2/503 173rd Airborne Brigade
RVN '65-'66 |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Marine4Life wrote: | | Cool Navy but why was it rewritten? Seems to me that a rewrite would indicate that it needed to be spruced up a little. |
Bingo.
The first citation was signed by a John Hyland.
The second, signed by John Lehman, differs in the following respects:
1. "Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY" is converted to "Lieutenant (jg) Kerry" in three places
2. "Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY" is converted to "he" in one place
3. The citations are otherwise identical until the last line.
The closing line in the Hyland citation is as follows:
| Quote: | | His actions were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service |
The closing line in the Lehman citation is as follows:
| Quote: | | By his brave action, bold initiative, and unwavering devotion to duty, Lieutenant (jg) Kerry reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest tradtions of the United States Naval Service. |
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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BrianC
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Cleaned up is right!
Admiral Zumwalt was right - they should have put Kerry in the straightjacket when Zumwalt first thought of it. |
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Craig
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Marine4life wrote: | | Post traumatic medal syndrome I guess. You are correct that Lehman was not Secnav until 1981, Has me curious, falsly parading as having a medal that you don't really have is very serious stuff. I would also guestion Lehman as to why he falsly awarded it in the 80's. The Navajo that served in raising the flag at Iwo Jima didn't get his medal until he was dead, then it was awarded to his family. So I have seen delayed ceremonies but Kerry is alive and well. And it would seem to me that if a medal of this nature was awarded post combat that there would have been a large ceremony, mega new's coverage. |
Are you talking about Ira Hayes?
You do not honor him well to just talk about him as some anonymous and Navajo.
You are about as much Marine as that Mortenson fellow is prison 'gaurd'.
The first link comes up on his name will give you the below and the link will lead to more interesting information.
I cannot believe that a real Marine wold refer to him as just some Navajo.
http://www.artnatam.com/utaylor/n-ut008.html
The Real Ira Hayes
by
Urshel Taylor
Available Images
Larger Full (38k)
Cropped (45k)
Detail (37k)
Old Glory Goes Up On Iwo Jima, Mount Suribachi, Feb. 23, 1945. Ira Hayes is a Pima Indian From Gila River Reservation Arizona. I am Pima Indian from the Salt River Reservation , north of Gila River. I am also a former Marine that spent many year's over seas but I never went through the battle Ira Hayes went through.
IRA HAMILTON HAYES 1923 - 1955
Ira Hamilton Hayes is a full blood Pima Indian and was born in Sacaton, Arizona, on the Pima Reservation on Jan 12, 1923. His parents Joe E. and Nancy W. Hayes were both farming people.
Ira Hayes was a noted World War ll hero. Although he had a normal childhood on his reservation, his life changed dramatically when war broke out and he joined the Marine Corps. After he completed courses under the U.S. Marine Corps Parachutist School at San Diego, California. He was lovingly dubbed "Chief Falling Cloud." Ira Hayes was assigned to a parachute battalion of the fleet Marine Force.
By the beginning of 1945, he was part of the American invasion force that attacked the Japanese stronghold of Iwo Jima. On Feb. 23, 1945 to signal the end of Japanese control, Hayes and five other's raised the U. S. flag atop Mount Suribuchi on the island of Iwo Jima. Three of the six men were killed while raising the flag. This heroic act was photographed by Joe Rosenthal, and it transformed Ira Hayes' life for ever. Subsequently a commemorative postage stamp was created as well as bronze statue in Washington DC.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt called the brave survivors of the flag raising back to the United States to aid a war bond drive. They were shuttled from one city to another for publicity purposes with questionable sincerity on the part of the American military. Ira Hayes asked to be sent back to the front lines, stating that "sometimes I wish that guy had never made that picture".
At the conclusion of World War ll he returned to his reservation, disillusioned by what he felt was unwarranted adoration. He began to drink heavily resulting from well-meaning friends offering drink's in their appreciation of his "Heroism" .
He was never able to get his life back in balance again. Ira Hayes died of exposure at the age of thirty-three on Jan, 24th 1955. He was memoralized by the Pima people and characterized as "a hero to everyone but himself". He is buried in Arlington Cemetery. He never married.
Any more information you need on the battle of Iwo Jima may be found in any library. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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By the way, these are the Silver Star citations that I dissected, not the Bronze Star.
I don't have copies of the Bronze Star citations - I'm sure that only one version now exists on the Kerry site. 
One of the citations was re-written once and the other is said to have been re-written either once or twice.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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