SwiftVets.com

ArmyWife · Lieutenant Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 218

No, wait a minute folks!

Did you guys actually READ all of Dorf's column? It's about the state of the law regarding 527's, not about the Swifties. Findlaw is also not a journalist site, exactly, but a site for lawyers with opinion columns and a message board for debate. Dorf is a professor of LAW, not journalism. Attorneys don't exist to be objective, they exist to argue a point of view.

I, myself, got worked up over a John Dean column against the Swifties on Findlaw a few weeks ago, but that article was a direct attack on the facts and the Swifties. This column just isn't one of those.

I appreciate the passion here...but this time I think we're barking up the wrong tree. If you want to debate Dorf, go sign up for FindLaw's message board.

Just my humble opinion.

3rd gen Navy · Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:08 am Post subject:

Dear Army Wife,
with all due respect, you are correct as to the overall tone of Dorf's article. In and of itself, that message is not bad.

However, when that message is used as a vehicle to slander the SBVFT and propagate subjective allegations and falsehoods regarding their anti-Kerry statements THEN, IT IS UNACCEPTABLE!

The more these inaccuracies regarding the SBVFT are repeated the more people will accept them as true.

Again, I encourage all with the time and inclination to send a polite and objective e-mail to both Dorf and the Dean of Columbia Law.
Respectfully,
_________________
Warm Regards,
Sean G. Smith,
RN, BSN, EMT-B, U.S. Navy, 1994 - 2003.
BS Biology, Business Administration, Nursing
The Deal with Life: Make decisions based on what you might gain, not on what you may lose.
!!!!!! LET THE WILD RUMPUS BEGIN !!!!!!

Tom Poole · Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:33 am Post subject: More Bias...

ArmyWife · Lieutenant Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 218

Well, if you want to get really worked up, here's the column by John Dean that I alluded to earlier.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20040831.html

I, and others in the forum, chose to answer it on FindLaw's message board.

Here is Dorf's real conclusion to his article, just in case any casual readers of this thread are confused:

"So what action should be taken by Kerry supporters upset by the falsehoods presented by Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, or by Bush supporters distressed by the conspiracy theories fostered by Fahrenheit 9/11? Don't run to the FEC or the courts. Instead, rally your own 527s. As both of these candidates like to say, bring it on."

There is an attempt, albeit weak, to show a tiny bit of balance.

I appreciate your points about going after every incidence of people calling the SBVfT liars to try to stop the propagation. I can't argue with that at all. My thoughts on it are just more pragmatic right now...that you probably can't get them all.

As I mentioned before, the job of a lawyer is to argue a point of view, and it just seems to me that when you email Dorf's boss about an opinion column, he might get congratulated...the opposite of what you hope for.

So many Bush-haters are driven only by emotion, anyway, so it's almost a waste of time to even talk about the facts to them if it's more than a paragraph or two. They're not going to read farther. I couldn't get any real intellectual answers back to my posts about the Dean column...only emotional response.

Enumerating the facts for Dorf might not do any more than a one sentence respose could. Maybe something like, "I'm offended at your unfair and unsubstantiated swipes against the Swift Boat Vets for Truth, and it detracted from the points that I think you were trying to make about 527's."

Hey, like I said, it's just my humble opinion. I'm tired tonight...maybe I'll see this differently in the morning.

ThaLeena · Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:10 am Post subject: I agree, but here's a short one

First of all, I fully agree with the above post. I think they will more than likely dismiss most emails about this subject. I thought the same thing about the CBS Rathergate e-mailings, but I have been pleasently surprised by the responses I've gotten back from the businesses I emailed. So what the heck, what's one more email. I did a little editing and sent this to both Schizer and to Dorf with title line "Here is what I sent to your boss"
Mr. David Schizer,
One would expect to find a truthful and well-rationalized article when searching Find Law's Legal Commentary. Instead, searchers are confronted with yet another obviously biased and slanting anti-Bush article such as that written by Michael Dorf on September 1, 2004.
In light of the situation that has occurred at CBS, and the severe repercussions that establishment is suffering because of a blatant bias, one has to wonder how Dorf's lack of objectivity will no doubt negatively reflect upon both Columbia AND the school of Law in particular. Furthermore, as an employee of Columbia University, Dorf should formulate his comments to avoid placing his department and institution in a bad light. The public will no longer sit back and allow such a transparent bias to go unchallenged.

Tom Poole · Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:49 am Post subject: More Bias...

dmackto · Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:56 am Post subject:

Myself, I respond to whoever happens to piss me off while I have 10 minutes to write an email. Nine times out of 10 if they piss me off while I'm too busy to respond I won't go back to it later because some new article has pissed me off by then and is using my 10 free minutes.

Dorf just happened to catch me inbetween. He's probably a smaller fish to fry than one of the 920342324 others I could have written to, but he caught that 10 minute window.
_________________
Deborah
The FROZEN CHICKEN Journal

This is no time for ease and comfort. It is the time to dare and endure.
- Winston Churchill

3rd gen Navy · Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 1:39 pm Post subject:

Dear Army Wife,
once again, I agree with you. You can't get them all. This was only meant to be a "heads up" for those who had the time and inclination to reply. I never intended for it to become a debate as to who was the most biased, the most anti SBVT, or the most "deserving" of a response. As others have pointed out, there is a continuous barrage of Anti-SBVFT bias in every media outlet. We have no dearth of of oppportunity to respond with well reasoned objectivity.

As for John Dean, yes, I recognize the name from WaterGate. I have my own opinions about the effectiveness of Dean vs. Dorf in their anti SBVFT rhetoric, but this is not the appropriate place to discuss them. If you're anywhere near North Central Florida (after this hurricane gets done smacking us around....again) you may cash in one chit for a cold beverage of your choice on me, and we can talk about it at length.

Re: John Dean. I do agree with him on one important point:
Kerry should sue the SBVFT. The negative ramifications for Kerry are obvious. Quite frankly, I'm suprised Dean would offer such assinine counsel. It casts serious doubt upon both his judgement and his grasp of the situation. Kerry (just as Clinton before him) has much more to lose by making this open and public. Much better for him to batten the hatches and stand by. Kerry's silence speaks volumes. The righteous have nothing to hide. Gotta run, just lost power. Sorry for any spelling errors. Cheers!
_________________
Warm Regards,
Sean G. Smith,
RN, BSN, EMT-B, U.S. Navy, 1994 - 2003.
BS Biology, Business Administration, Nursing
The Deal with Life: Make decisions based on what you might gain, not on what you may lose.
!!!!!! LET THE WILD RUMPUS BEGIN !!!!!!

ArmyWife · Lieutenant Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 218

3rd gen Navy · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:23 pm Post subject:

Dear Army Wife,

it's a "Target Rich" Environment...I agree with you about choosing your battles according to your resources.

I also disagree with Senator Kerry on this point:

This is one "free-fire" zone that I hope each and every one of us continues to participate in to the best of their abilities.

It would be absolutely delightful to someday a footnote in the history/strategic business management books:

"The early 21st century shift in the Main Stream Media towards unbiased and objective coverage was a direct result of the world wide web and growing public outrage. After a continuous deluge of correspondence and boycots, schools of journalism were forced to adopt a rigorous core curriculum of coursework in ethics and scientific detachment. Except for fringe, niche markets, biased newsmedia was no longer tolerated by the American public...."
_________________
Warm Regards,
Sean G. Smith,
RN, BSN, EMT-B, U.S. Navy, 1994 - 2003.
BS Biology, Business Administration, Nursing
The Deal with Life: Make decisions based on what you might gain, not on what you may lose.
!!!!!! LET THE WILD RUMPUS BEGIN !!!!!!

sleeplessinseattle · LCDR Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 430