SwiftVets.com

[jim_nyc]

In my original email ...the one that was returned.. I used the word retraction in my subject title...in a subsequent sending I merely quoted the title of Broders piece....that one appears to have made it throught the email filters at the WaPo.

[truthserum]

Lucianne blog picked up the Broder thing and they are ranting about it.
I hope they are all emailing him too.

[Geano]

MSM is hurting...they're facing something new...thousands of instant communicators researching and keeping each other corrected when an error appears...they're not used to being vetted (pun intended), and are in deep denial that they are dinosaurs and the asteroid has struck.

They are fighting to keep their niche in a society that has changed. They are unable to discriminate opinion from facts, and more than willing to publish a story like: "No truth to rumor that Bush and Teresa are having a fling"...and lead people to believe that even though the idea is a fake, there is no evidence to support it isn't true. Duh... .

SBVT and others make things happen when somebody just tosses out a brainstorm, somebody finds it interesting, and starts researching...gradually the facts begin to emerge...are filtered, until the real story is finally summarized by somebody, with proof...or the premise is proven to be in error.

On this site alone, it took exactly 59 minutes from the first blurb "I think those TANG documents are fakes" until someone posted a link with the first duplications of the docs! An hour later, enough info had hit the boards to prove fakery...2 hours for us, how long for MSM???

There is a tremendous amount of brainstorming and fact presentation, references and opinion, old threads with clues, repetition just on these boards, and it's confusing as heck until a person has spent days reading, and watching, questioning etc...then each of us begin to catch on.

MSM watches this, and has no idea of what is actually happening, and hasn't learned to watch the process until it's completed...somewhere in that Swiftboating process, facts will be erroneous, conclusions may be invalid, observations inaccurate...MSM just doesn't stick through while the threads wind, and the product is finished, they're stuck in the middle claiming that we don't know what we're doing, and are wrong.

Yeah, we're just now learning what we're doing...they'd better learn also. Right Dan?
_________________
MSM Lead Nov 3 2004 "Kerry Oval Office Hopes killed by 10,000 Mice..."
Candidate had declared mice "only a nuisance".
States they "moved too Swiftly"....

[truthserum]

Don't you just love it? The MSM getting caught red handed over and over with their lies and bias. And, all they do is whine about bloggers. That shows how afraid they are. Well, their pedestals are cracking. The public has risen up and said, "we're not taking it anymore".
_________________
Sister to a Marine vet who served in Vietnam and proud of it.

PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN!

[yosemitesam]

David Broder needs to get real. I am not going to have him put the SBVT in the same pot with Dan Rather.... No Way Mr. Broder.

I recently sent this email to Mr. Broder expressing my outrage. Maybe someday he will get the message. Hopefully that will be sooner than later.

***********

Mr. Broder,

Re: The 3rd last para in today’s Op-ed piece.

I guess I am surprised to find the SBVT in juxtaposition with CBSNews (2nd last para), where you are attempting to provide moral equivalence between the two groups. I don’t see it that way and I object to your placing these two different cases in such close proximity in your piece.

The SBVT have long (33 years) been defamed by the actions and speeches of LT(JG) Kerry, USNR. Some were surprised to find out why LT Kerry got to leave a combat zone after being there only 4 months, more were surprised when he visited the enemy (North Vietnamese and Viet Cong) in Paris during the war as well as understanding the events of the Winter Soldier meeting in Detroit by the VVAW, the demonstration of throwing medals over the fence of the White House as well as LT(JG) Kerry’s testimony in front of the Sen Fulbright’s committee as part of Dewey Canyon III. Later they wondered how he had been awarded all these medals, when they had not heard of the events which had provided the reasons for the award of the medals. All of this was from long ago. The SBVT have many different concerns about SEN Kerry. It probably was unfortunate that Sen Kerry dredged up all these memories by publishing his second book “Tour of Duty”, last December (“The New Soldier” – 1971, being the first). In so doing he scratched the scabs covering those long ago wounds… and naturally they started to bleed. The flow continues today and has spread to a wider contingent of Vietnam Veterans, their families, and supporters, who having examined the claims of the 254 SBVT, have agreed with them and are actively supporting them in one form or another. Beyond that, as the SBVT have laid out their case in “UNFIT FOR COMMAND” (with about 60 actively supporting the drafting effort), another 50,000 supporters have examined their claims about LT(JG) Kerry (USNR) and begun active support of their cause. So whenever you artfully dismiss the SBVT you are disrespecting at least 50,000 other Americans. There have been over 61,000 contributions to the SBVT totaling over $6.7 Million. There claims are totally different than the apparent malfeasance at CBSNEWS.

The SBVT claims and recommendations stand in stark contrast to the CBSNEWS fraudulently based story about 1LT Bush (TXAFNG). The trail of this story is as recent as the 2000 election when SEN Gore refused to get involved in talking about his opponent in this way. Apparent federal felonies have been committed and then due to lax journalistic principles and overzealousness to embarrass a sitting President in time of war, CBSNEWS failed the American people, by bringing the allegations to light in a highly visible way, before they were fact-checked in a minimal way. It is likely that the CBS investigation and fallout from this event will have significant impact on CBS and the rest of the journalistic profession. It is sad indeed. All Americans suffer when such lapses in judgment occur – in any profession.

Hopefully, you can see now that these two cases cannot be compared. They are totally different. The SBVT, a highly visible and traceable group, are not trying to fraudulently claim anything. They are only requesting that Sen Kerry apologize for his long ago actions and speeches and sign a release so that the media can see his entire military record. Additionally they are recommending to the American people that the LT(JG) (USNR) that they know and remember is UNFIT FOR COMMAND.

If you have not read that book, I strongly recommend that you do and as an objective journalist make up your own mind about the SBVT claims and recommendations.

*************

The MSM need to be blasted everytime they step out of line. Maybe the CBSNEWs events will bring about an atmosphere of accountability and removal of liberal bias from the MSM. OK.... we can hope can't we.
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Thanks Swiftees for Performing this Final Mission.

[truthserum]

I think the email campaigns against them will eventually sink into their hard leftist heads. It may take awhile since right now, they believe only CBS needs a spanking. They speak in psuedo intellectual terms about how their craft of journalism has been discredited by CBS, but not realizing that each time one of them speaks they are speaking of themselves.

On top of it they are in shock that anyone is bringing them to task after all these years of dripping lies to us.

It's a new and wonderful day in the USA!
_________________
Sister to a Marine vet who served in Vietnam and proud of it.

PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN!

[USAF66-70]

Here's my email to davidbroder@washpost.com--

David Broder:

From your column, “A serious erosion of journalistic standards,” it appears that you have blindly presumed and decreed that the sixty plus decorated and honorable Swift Boat veterans are merely “any outfit … who came around peddling an ad with implausible charges.”

That you've so dismissively place the honorable Swift Boat vets in the same category as the Texas document forger explains why there’s a “widespread loss of confidence in … the values of journalism.” David, you yourself manifest the “serious erosion of journalistic standards.” Thank God for Cable TV, the Internet, blogs, and the SBVT.

[MACVJOE]

The facts are most so called MSM have for years determined what we as uneducated Americans needed to hear and see as NEWS. They have placed theirselves on a very high platform. And no one is to changled them. Espically, one like this guy. You can read in his articles that he is so much more qualified to report news., than any of us. With the growth of cable and now the internet, they are feeling the 'threat'. Us normarl uneducated folks are calling them or their Bias and lies. However, the response from most of them reminds me of what my dad told me 'Do not try and teach a Pig to Sing, cause you waste your time and annoy the PIG. MSM is really having a hard time being taught to sing. I tried not to go against my dad, but I think he would agree, we have got to keep it up, till we bring them off their high horse.
_________________
Retired 86 Army
MACV Upper Delta 68-69

[coldwarvet]

Another one we can sue for libel just think of all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ the SBVFT will have.
_________________
Defender of the honor of those in harms way keeping us out of harms way.

"Peace is our Profession"
Strategic Air Command - Motto

USAF 75-79 Security Police

[JROTC]

Dear Mr. Broder:

From what I have heard / read / seen of your comments in the past, you seem to be a very thoughtful, intelligent man. But, on the subject of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (SBVT), you obviously are speaking very ignorantly with your comment quoted below from your editorial – “The Media, Losing Their Way” of Sunday, Sept. 26th:

“… a scurrilous and largely inaccurate attack on the Vietnam service of John Kerry …”

In fact, Mr. Broder, with a very small amount of homework, it is indeed hard to see where these Veterans are “inaccurate”?

1) Christmas in Cambodia
2) First Purple Heart award was for a “self-inflicted wound” as recently admitted by the Kerry Campaign – no enemy fire at the time.
3) Jan.29, 1969 account of battle where his gunner was severely wounded (from Mr. Kerry’s website). Problem is that Mr. Peck – not Mr. Kerry - commanded this boat on that day when Mr. Alston (gunner) was wounded in the head.

From Mr. Kerry’s website – since deleted:
“29 JAN 1969 Cua Lon Rivers
Early in the morning seven swift boats embarked on a mission to destroy enemy installations along the Cua Lon River. While Kerry's boat and another (PCF72) were probing a canal along the river, Kerry's boat came under heavy fire and was hit by a B-40 rocket in the cabin area. One member of Kerry's crew -- Forward Gunner David Alston - suffered shrapnel wounds in his head. His injuries were not considered serious and he was sent to the 29th Evac Hospital at Binh Thuy.”
4) Democratic National Convention – No Man Left Behind: After the mine went off, the other boats fled, but Mr. Kerry’s stayed. Problem is that it was the other way around. Do you really believe this was a speech writer’s typo?
5) Please don’t even think that Mr. Thurlow’s citation stating “enemy fire” is evidence that there was. It is truly incomprehensible that on that day in March, four Swift Boats were basically dead in the water for one to one and a half hours with no injuries due to enemy fire reported – except for the damage from the mine, no other battle damage? Remember – 50 foot long boats grouped together in a river approx. 75 yards wide. Mr. Thurlow has provided his thoughts on that day, and his thoughts as to why his citation states what it does. We surely did not loose over 50,000 of our best to Viet Cong that couldn’t hit a stationary 50 foot boat!
6) Mr. Kerry hasn’t signed Form 180 allowing for the “full” release of his military records. Mr. Kerry states that all his records are posted on his website – not true – the Navy states they have almost 100 pages that have not been released – and the Media have mostly given him a pass on this – why?
7) Mr. Kerry was discharged from the Navy in 1978, but did not receive his Honorable Discharge until 2001. Why? Would information released from filing Form 180 assist in answering this?

Mr. Broder, with all due respect, I believe that it is time for the Media to start doing the work it should be doing. I suggest to quite with the “inaccurate attack” comments and start listing the inaccuracies! Let the SBVT have at it! Go for it, Mr. Broder! Show the public what a “scurrilous” group these 250 + Vietnam veterans are!

Unfortunately, I do not believe you will, and I think that you and I know why – the truth can hurt when you want to run away from it!

Sincerely,

Al McBride
Menomonee Falls, WI
_________________
"It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it" - General Douglas MacArthur

[rhv5862]

Just sent my e-mail pointing out Kerry Campaign statements regarding:

1. Cambodia
2. First Purple Heart
3. No man left behind

Asked Mr. Broder where were the lies and who was telling them. Am wondering if I will get a reply?

RHV

[rhv5862]

Just got reply to my e-mail to Mr. Broder sent to davidbroder@washpost.com about 30 mins ago. Form e-mail thanking me for my e-mail and telling me they receive 1000's and be assured someone would read mine. Right?

RHV

[RiflemanDD730]

Here's my email to Broder.

Mr. Broder, you apparently refer to the SBVT with the description "a scurrilous and largely inaccurate attack on the Vietnam service of John Kerry".

It should be pointed out that an affidavit by a John Kerry crewmate (Steve Gardner), who served with Kerry longer than any of the "band of brothers" (70 days vs 42 days), caused John Kerry to admit that he has been lying since 1979 about having been in Cambodia on Christmas Eve. This lie was repeated in 1986 in the Senate when Kerry put his own integrity on the line asking the Senate to believe his story as proof that a US president was lying.

This should have tipped off any honest journalist that there was something real about the SBVT. The lack of documents for Kerry's first Purple Heart and Kerry's refusal to sign a form (SF 180) to release his military records should also have been a red flag. When the FBI exposed Kerry's denial that he was at a meeting where the murder of US Senators was discussed alarm bells should have gone off that a big story about Kerry's truthfulness was likely.

But that never happened Mr. Broder. The opposite took place and it was repeated in your description above. And it didn't happen as you suspect " from a widespread loss of confidence in both the values of journalism and the economic viability of the news business." It happened because too many journalists are driven blindly by their ideology and the truth to them is found in their belief systems and not facts. Dan Rather's five year quest to discredit Bush which ended in using a person with mental problems as an "unimpeachable" source wasn't the result of a "loss of confidence" or concerns about "economic viability". Rather's behavior would suggest that it was an irrational vendetta driven by ideology.

You ask at the end of the column, "We've wandered a long way from safe ground in the news business. Sometimes I wonder if we can find our way back.” Probably not Mr. Broder. Things will improve when the old guard like you and Dan Rather are gone and a fresh new group of journalists who are internet savvy and dedicated to the truth show up.

Thank you,

[Fort Campbell]

[Billman]

Your column characterized the Swift Boat veterans' charges as "a scurrilous and largely inaccurate attack on the Vietnam service of John Kerry"

Mr. Broder, can you tell me *any* charge they've made that's been shown to be inaccurate?

After months of angry denials, Kerry has already conceded:
* Kerry wasn't in Cambodia on Christmas 1968 or at any other time, per his biographer and all surviving crewmates including Kerry backers
* Kerry did attend the VVAW meeting at which a plot to assassinate U.S. Senators was discussed and voted upon
* The first and third Purple Heart wounds "may have been" accidentally self-inflicted
* The other 4 boats did not flee the Bay Hap incident with only Kerry's returning, contrary to the original "No Man Left Behind" story promoted in Iowa
* The "Combat V" on Kerry's Silver Star is erroneous, the Navy has never issued such an award
* Kerry's last and most-serious shrapnel injury came not from a mine while under fire, but while running away from grenades he had dropped into a rice bin, with no hostile forces present (see Kerry comments in Brinkley's "Tour of Duty")

That's just what he's conceded. Other charges have been shown true via Naval documents, Kerry's own statements, and other sources. Yet the bulk of the charges in "Unfit for Command" have not been seriously investigated by the media, let alone shown "inaccurate".

As for the most-discussed question - the presence of hostile fire on the Bay Hap - this is at best a draw, neither proven nor disproven. See Mike Dobbs' excellent article. Mike subsequently stated, appropriately, that he only attempted to address that particular question and not the bulk of the Swift Vets' charges.

I look forward to further journalistic effort by hard-nosed reporters like Mr. Dobbs, rather than your scurrilous and inaccurate attack on 250 honorable Navy veterans.
_________________
-- Bill in Seattle