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| Have you read the Winter Soldier Statements? |
| I have read most of the Winter Soldier statements |
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66% |
[ 6 ] |
| I have read a few of the Winter Soldier statements |
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33% |
[ 3 ] |
| I have read a none of the Winter Soldier statements |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 9 |
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JN173
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Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 341
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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 Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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I have read them several times. And since it has been determined by investigation that fully 3/4th of the veterans making these statements were in fact not veterans, or US military whatsoever, and/or if in the US military were not within 3000 miles of Vietnam, makes the entire 100% of these statements lies, and a carefully scripted and enacted ploy of lies, false accusations and statements purposely created to fool the American public.
Woof!
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Speedy
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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I saw winter soldiers at a community college.
Those poor kids were very emotionally tortured. lots of emotions and tears. some of them couldn't even talk about their feelings...just said a couple of choked up words and passed the mic, then started crying.
Very heartwrenching documentary. |
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Speedy
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| War Dog wrote: | | And since it has been determined by investigation that fully 3/4th of the veterans making these statements were in fact not veterans, or US military whatsoever, and/or if in the US military were not within 3000 miles of Vietnam |
That's baloney!
Lets see some proof of your statement....first I have heard of it.
I saw it, and I believed what I was seeing hearing. Most of the stuff those kids talked about was done on a regular basis (H&I, burning hooches, etc) |
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JN173
Commander
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 341
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Speedy wrote: |
I saw it, and I believed what I was seeing hearing. Most of the stuff those kids talked about was done on a regular basis (H&I, burning hooches, etc) |
The question was did you read the statements, not did you see the movie.
I'll leave it to War Dog to substatiate the "3/4" part, but a significant number of the individuals were fake. 
As for a proof you can start with Guenter Lewy's America in Vietnam page 317
"The results of this investigation, carried out by the Naval Investigative Service, are interesting and revealing. Many of the veterans, though assured that they would not be questioned about atrocities they might have committed personally, refused to be interviewed. One of the active members of the VVAW told investigators that the leadership had directed the entire membership not to cooperate with military authorities. A black marine who agreed to be interviewed was unable to provide details of the outrages he had described at the hearing, hut he called the Vietnam war “one huge atrocity” and “a racist plot.” He admitted that the question of atrocities had not occurred to him while he was in Vietnam, and that he had been assisted in the preparation of his testimony by a member of the Nation of Islam. But the most damaging finding consisted of the sworn statements of several veterans, corroborated by witnesses, that they had in fact not attended the hearing in Detroit, One of them had never been to Detroit in all his life. He did not know, he stated, who might have used his name. "
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2/503 173rd Airborne Brigade
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040216184347380
Here you go!
| Quote: | The Tribunals
"As perfectly ignorant of Vietnam as the men who sent them there, [soldiers] found themselves monkey in the middle of a people's war so savage that babies were routinely used as trip plates for bombs and disemboweled cadavers swung from village signposts," wrote Paul Solotaroff in Rolling Stone magazine in a 1993 story about homeless Vietnam veterans.
His piece later evolved into a 1995 book called "The House of Purple Hearts. Solotaroff's inverted reasoning illustrates common attitudes of the left.
"One register of the savagery in which Vietnam vets were steeped is the degree of fear and loathing they inspired back home. At the airport in Oakland, California, people spat upon them and jeered, hurling rocks and plastic bags of chicken blood. That scrim of opprobrium seemed to lift somewhat ten years ago when the Vietnam Memorial was unveiled. America was reminded that these men were its sons and began seeing them as victims as well as demons." |
"Stolen Valor", B. G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley, Verity Press, 1998, Chapter 6, Atrocities: The Good War Versus the Bad War, pgs. 130 - 137.
Due to copyright limitations, you will have to go to the link and read for yourself. And by the way, I was wrong about the 3/4th comment.
Woof!
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When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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Speedy
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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War dog, you offer no proof of the statement about 3/4 being frauds.
As far as Mark Lane, everyone knows he was a radical commie and a fraud.
The black Marine? I saw him in the film, and he was there w/ his own agenda....racism. He was off on another planet.
The rest of them? I believe them, as most of their stories weren't that out of the ordinary. Sure, a few were, but we all know 'things' happened over there....so who really knows if the craziest of the tales happened or not.
It really doesn't even matter if a couple guys were lying....as long as some were telling the truth....
Sh*t, if you want atrocities you don't have to look any further than the 'other' Kerry
I'll go back to Calley and his boys. Obviously they operated before Me Lei. Also, Tiger Force after Hackworth left. Anyone who doesn't believ atrocities took place, has his head buried in the sand. Some of the people who bore witness to, or were involved came forward to speak about it. Again, most of the stories were about policies (H&I, FFZ, etc).
And like I said before, some of the kids couldn't even get their words out, just passed the mic and started crying while the next guy in line talked. Were those guys lying? I don't know what they could have lied about, since they didn't even say anything.
Watch the movie if you want the whole picture. The transcripts are void of the true human emotion that took place.
Reading the transcripts is only half of the story. The other half is the movie. |
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JN173
Commander
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 341
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Speedy wrote: |
The rest of them? I believe them, as most of their stories weren't that out of the ordinary. Sure, a few were, but we all know 'things' happened over there....so who really knows if the craziest of the tales happened or not.
It really doesn't even matter if a couple guys were lying....as long as some were telling the truth.... |
Since Winter Soldier was the basis for Kerry's Senate testimony I would say it was important that most of them told the truth. Especially since they supposedly occured on day to day basis with knowledge of officers at all levels.
But then there is no evidence that any of them told the truth since they failed to supply any evidence to directly support their allegations.
| Speedy wrote: |
Sh*t, if you want atrocities you don't have to look any further than the 'other' Kerry
I'll go back to Calley and his boys. Obviously they operated before Me Lei. Also, Tiger Force after Hackworth left. Anyone who doesn't believ atrocities took place, has his head buried in the sand. Some of the people who bore witness to, or were involved came forward to speak about it. |
We're talking about Winter Soldier and Kerry's testimony, not Calley, Hackworth et.al.
| Speedy wrote: |
Again, most of the stories were about policies (H&I, FFZ, etc). |
And what exactly is the issue about the policies. (see the thread on "Truth about Free Fire Zones and their misuse sometimes")
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A Grunt
2/503 173rd Airborne Brigade
RVN '65-'66 |
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