SwiftVets.com

[ASPB]

[publius]

[ASPB]

[Guest]

[quote="ASPB"]

[carpro]

OK, Pub's. I give up. You have me convinced. I can't argue with you anymore. After you've spent so much typing time and computer space telling all us plebes how stupid we are and how smart you are, you have finally convinced me I'm not worthy of sharing this space with you.

As stupid and uneducated as I may be, I still don't need you or any other liberal looking down their nose at me and wanting so bad to help me and think for me that they are almost in tears.

I like making my own mistakes. Hell, I even like paying for my own mistakes. I like keeping my own money instead of forking it over to people whose sole ambition in life is to be re-elected. I believe in God. I do not believe in racial discrimination of any kind, including affirmative action. I like being married to a woman and believe that's the way it ought to be. I believe that , if you make a baby, you ought to have it instead of killing it. I believe a person should work for a living and not accept welfare of any kind from anyone until they try the working scene first. I tithe to my church and make donations to charitable organizations whose work I support. I vote regularly and am, at least, smart enough to figure out how to do mark a ballot without help. I believe straight party voting mechanisms ought to be abolished. I love my country. If I was still young enough, I'd join the Marines again and get in this fight as soon as I could. I appreciate loyalty and, for that reason, could not support John Kerry under any circumstances.

I guess all this makes me a member of the religious right wing neocon conservative branch of the Republican party... then again maybe it doesn't. Maybe I'm a liberal after all.
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

[ASPB]

What the heck Carpro!

That puts you in the 34% majority of voters as opposed to 20% self-proclaimed liberals. Although I don't agree with all your beliefs, I respect them. That's more than can be said for sniveling pseudo-intellectual liberals!
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB

[publius]

Well, there's all kinds of posturing going on here, some of mine, and plenty from the regulars, who vastly out number Kerry supporters (and I'm not complaining about the numbers, just observing.) All over this board there are smug and condescending remarks about what fools and dumbasses Kerry supporters and liberals are and what completely informed righteous geniuses his haters are. Are you all so inured to the non-stop rants you cannot see this? I can dig you up a thousand citations from here if anybody cares to dispute this. The amusing part to me is that so many of you do the exact same thing that throws you into fits of high dudgeon when liberal idiots on DU do it. And some here don't come off as one bit smarter or sensible than they are. Try a little even-handedness.

But despite the extremism, some great part of it probably fueled by the excesses of the pack, I have read enough to think there are also plenty of good-hearted, intelligent people here, some of whom I can learn a thing from and some of whom might be interested in hearing from a real live liberal instead of believing in the silly caricature they have in their heads.

I tell you true, go to DU and read some of the grotesque fantasies some of its denizens have about the right. Laughable. They wouldn't know how to lay a glove on the right. Now go to FreeRepublic and read some of the grotesque fantasies some of its denizens have about the left. Same nonsense. Now do some reading here and you will find too much recklessness, too much assumption, too much partisanship to be suitable in a place that purports to be about The Truth. That part is to no one's credit or credibility. So do better than the extreme lefties. Do better than the extreme righties. Somthing wrong with that?

Anyway, it seems to me when someone comes along who would like to kick around a few ideas, from a perspective opposite yours, and is confident that he is not a dumbass (but quietly plenty humble about his own gaps and deficiencies,) you pour on the complaints. Would you like it better if I said I was stupid? Would you like it better if I said I don't think I'm right? Do you not think you are not dummies? Do you not think you are right? Sheesh! Why all the whining? Why not talk about the ideas instead of all the BS editorial comments and endless insults about effetes and sniveling pseudo-intellectuals, commies, know-it-alls, etc., etc? Try the mirror, fellas.

Now can we leave that aside? Wait. I'll let y'all have the last word. Lay on the lashes. Feel good that you kicked a bonafide, genuine liberal today. A loyal, tax-paying, Constitution-loving liberal American too.

---

I support Kerry because he is a liberal. From my perspective that means several things: 1.) Celebrating personal responsibility, accountability and accomplishment. 2.) Promoting liberty. 3.) Free-market capitalism regulated only to the degree the game is kept fair. 4.) Using government where private means cannot succed to protect everyman and especially the weak from the predators among us, foreign and domestic.

There's more of course, but that will do. So if Kerry is close to that, where's the rub?
_________________
Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. -Gen Omar N. Bradley

[War Dog]

publius is correct. Let's all try and stick to debating and discussing the issues and topics without calling each other names, insulting each other, etc...

But this works both ways, so everybody think before you post. Let's keep it clean!

Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.

When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit."

[JN173]

[nakona]

NOTE: My statements were edited by the moderators after I posted them. I do not wish to dispute their right to do so, nor quibble with their decision. I DO however, want to ensure that nobody gets the mistaken idea that I am stooping to the same disruptive level as the invaders. No disrespect towards the Mods is intended.

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Posted by publius



Well, there's all kinds of posturing going on here, some of mine, and plenty from the regulars, who vastly out number Kerry supporters.
Not for lack of trying on the part of intruders from DU, who invaded this board for the sole purpose of spreading propaganda and disrupting the board.
Double ironic because DU will ban for merely asking the wrong questions, let alond behaving like a troll.



All over this board there are smug and condescending remarks about what fools and dumbasses Kerry supporters and liberals are and what completely informed righteous geniuses his haters are.
You mean it's exactly like DU, where YOU come from?
You've got a lot of nerve complaining about the opinions of the board members when you're an unwelcome gatecrasher in the first place.




The amusing part to me is that so many of you do the exact same thing that throws you into fits of high dudgeon when liberal idiots on DU do it.
No. We are not like DU.
You see, HERE you are allowed to stay and post, regardless of your views, provided you aren't trolling or being disruptive.
On DU, you are not allowed to be a member if your THINKING isn't in line with their dogma. It says so right in their forum rules and the moment they figure out you're not one of them, you're gone.




But despite the extremism, some great part of it probably fueled by the excesses of the pack, I have read enough to think there are also plenty of good-hearted, intelligent people here...
Gee...
edited by moderator. Stop with the insulting comments towards other members.
The edited line was a sarcastic version of "gee thanks" and contained no profanity or name calling.



...some of whom might be interested in hearing from a real live liberal instead of believing in the silly caricature they have in their heads.
Two things:
1) We weren't raised in a vacuum. In all likelyhood, you are in the youngest 5% of the membership here. If YOU'VE been exposed to those ideas, what makes you think we haven't? We're not unaware of your views, we have simply rejected them, in many cases before you even got out of diapers.
2) The next time you refer to our opinions as "the silly caricatures in our heads" I will ask the moderators to ban you. Now, they don't answer to me and are under no obligation to do as I ask. However, do you REALLY feel like you have a lot of Brownie Points to burn?



I tell you true, go to DU and read some of the grotesque fantasies some of its denizens have about the right. Laughable.
Yes, we've noticed. But it's rather disingenueous of you to speak of them in the third person.




Anyway, it seems to me when someone comes along who would like to kick around a few ideas, from a perspective opposite yours, and is confident that he is not a dumbass you pour on the complaints.
And you presume too much. First of all, please don't insult our intelligence by claiming you are here for honest discussion. You are here to agitate for Kerry. Then, you have the nerve to complain that an Anti-Kerry site doesn't want to listen to you try browbeat them into voting for someone they don't like or trust.




Why not talk about the ideas?
We are talking about ideas. The specific ideas about why we don't like Kerry and how we can get that information out.
Since when are we obligated to seek YOUR approval for what we think?



If you were willing to set aisde your arrogance, you might be able to understand that things I've just said. edited by moderator. Stop with the insulting comments towards other members.
The edited line expressed the notion that publius was incapable of setting aside his arrogant viewpoints long enough to understand the criticisms I made and contained no profanity or name calling.

==============================================

NOTE: My statements were edited by the moderators after I posted them. I do not wish to dispute their right to do so, nor quibble with their decision. I DO however, want to ensure that nobody gets the mistaken idea that I am stooping to the same disruptive level as the invaders. No disrespect towards the Mods is intended.
_________________
13F20P

[publius]

Nakona, you've been a member of this forum for less than a week, like me, but you talk like you represent swiftvets. You don't. Nothing you have concocted about me is correct. I am a member of DU. I've been a member for years and have made about the same number of posts there in all that time that you have here in a week. I read a little on DU when I have time which is why I know some DUers are ridiculous extremists. I'm a member of many discussion forums. I'm a member of FreeRepublic, visit there once in a while, sometimes starting conversations that run to several hundred posts, and I have several good friends there. We sometimes agree and mostly don't but we respect each other. That's how I know some Freepers are ridiculous extremists. I'm a moderator of very busy bi-partisan board with lots more members and lots more traffic than here. It is there that I heard about this place. You presume too much and you've batted 0 on every statement or guess about me. How did you miss the essential rule in life not to jump to conclusions, or go off half-cocked?

I think it is important that you take your complaint that my statement "the silly caricatures in our heads" is outrageous and I should be banned for it to the moderators. You might learn something. You won't endear yourself to the mods. They have their hands full with real issues and would like posters to behave like grownups and not run off tattling to them because they're so thin-skinned as to take major offense at a statement like mine, especially, buried as it was in plenty of self-deprecating comment. They also know I will leave the moment they tell me I'm too out of line or too much trouble. So report me to the principal if that's the kind of man you are. Or take the chip off your shoulder, drop the threats and stow the hostility.

I did appreciate your attempt at humor: "If you were willing to set aisde your arrogance, you might be able to understand that things I've just said. However, if you were capable of understanding, I wouldn't have needed to say it."

My arrogance. Right.

---

Now, I say Kerry saw the Vietnam war as a waste of good Americans and he had the moxie as a very young man to do something about it. He went too far in some of his statements and he has mildly said he wishes he'd said things another way. He doesn't back away from his opposition to the war. If you say you didn't make any wrong-headed mistakes in your twenties then we'll just know you have truthfulness issues. The difference was nobody was paying any attention to you (or me) who cared? We didn't have the imagination, commitment, leadership ability or hair to try to move the most powerful city on earth like John Kerry, did we?

But let me ask you have you ever worked as hard in your whole life to change the policy of the government for an issue as transcendently important as when he thought it was getting people killed for no good reason? When most rich kids were skiing in Colorado or dodging Vietnam in Texas or drinking beer on the beach or touring Europe with their girlfriends Kerry was trying to stop what he thought (and I thought and still think) was a useless, wasteful war. What were you doing?

I admire red-blooded Americans with the old-fashioned self-confidence and guts to take on the system. In my twenties I was going to school, taking care of my family and getting my career started. I didn't have the oysters to buck Uncle Sam and I thought he needed it. Kerry did, and my belief is that he did it to save American lives. So tell me about what great things you tried to accomplish to help the nation in your twenties.

---

Nakona, if you make any more comments excoriating me in this thread I'll try hard not to respond to them. Enough already.
_________________
Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. -Gen Omar N. Bradley

[carpro]

[quote="publius"]

[carpro]

[nakona]

[ASPB]