 |
SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
FireFox
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 84
|
 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:34 am Post subject: |
 |
|
It seems like this was a concerted and orchestrated
effort that had a lot of problems. The typeography
was a catalyst to find all of the other stuff but the
other stuff would have come out sooner or later.
But it may have been too late.
The criminals are learning the new technology along
with the rest of us. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
SteamSnipe
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 75
Location: Great Lakes, Il
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:48 am Post subject: IBM Selectric Composer |
|
|
I keep hearing people say the IBM Selectric Composer could produce the documents, and it possibly could have, since it had proportional font capacity and superscript capability. What you don't see is this line from http://www.ibmcomposer.org/SelComposer/description.htm
| Quote: | | The first IBM Composer was the IBM "Selectric" Composer announced in 1966. It was a hybrid "Selectric" typewriter that was modified to have proportional spaced fonts. It is 100% mechanical and has no digital electronics. Since it has no memory, the user was required to type everything twice. While typing the text the first time, the machine would measure the length of the line and count the number of spaces. When the user finished typing a line of text, they would record special measurements into the right margin of the paper. Once the entire column of text was typed and measured, it would then be retyped, however before typing each line, the operator would set the special justification dial (on the right side) to the proper settings, then type the line. The machine would automatically insert the appropriate amount of space between words so that all of the text would be justified. |
I can't see any busy military man typing something twice to make it look "proportional" So obviously Killian DID NOT use a Selectric Composer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lrb111
Captain
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 508
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:02 am Post subject: Re: IBM Selectric Composer |
|
|
[quote="SteamSnipe"]
| Quote: |
I can't see any busy military man typing something twice to make it look "proportional" So obviously Killian DID NOT use a Selectric Composer |
I worked at place that had 3 of those advanced models. They were about 7 years old at the time. Two of them had regular users, one was always free. No one out of the 20 people that worked there ever tried to do anything on them except the two regular users.
We did a lot of simple stuff like typing labels, and no one i knew ever attempted to use one of those machines a second time.
_________________
said Democratic Chairman Terry McAuliffe. "It is inexcusable to mock service and sacrifice."
well, when even the DNC can see it,,,,, then kerry is toast. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
You GottaBeKidding
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 692
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Steamsnipe,
You only had to type it twice if you wanted it full-justified. The forged docs aren't full-justified. If they were done on a Composer, they would have been typed once. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
noc
PO1
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 492
Location: Dublin, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:22 am Post subject: Re: IBM Selectric Composer |
|
|
| SteamSnipe wrote: |
I can't see any busy military man typing something twice to make it look "proportional" So obviously Killian DID NOT use a Selectric Composer |
Their expert said they were only trying to show that the documents could have been create in 1972 no matter how improbable.
There have already been several posts that prove that the Selectric Composer could not have been used. The Press Roman font that it had does not match Times New Roman. It is close, but not close enough.
Here is a copy of the posted article:
http://peterduncan.net/CBS_Documents.html
Several of the pro Kerry blogs have said that there were typewriters in 1972 that had the Times New Roman font. I find it interesting though that anyone has yet to name one. It was not the Composer and that I am sure of.
To top it all off CBS never had the originals. They only had photocopies. You have to wonder how any expert could ever call these genuine.
You would think if they were going to go to the trouble of making forgeries that they would of at least used an old typewriter with something that at least looked similar to the record.
The signatures were really a joke too.
I heard next week 60 Minutes has an interview with Santa Claus from Cambodia.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
producehawk
PO1
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 463
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I have not added my two cents worth on this subject because so many of you have so much knowledge I would feel unworthy. I do enjoy reading all the evidence you have all come up with. Keep up the good work. Even an idiot (so says Teresa) like me can see these are not even good forgeries. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Detective
Seaman
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 151
Location: On the water in Newport Beach, Calif USA
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well well well........seems like a the typical Parakeet azz retired General Bobby W. Hodges
personally "verified" those fake made on Microsoft Word Document (not in existence during the dates of report,BTW)......
Well, I have this liar and discrace to the uniforms home address and phone number.anyone want it? PM Me, I'll be in later or the admins of this board can decide if it need be published so we can let this fella know how we feel. Please,act accordingly and DONT threaten or harass the azz nor say anything considered illegal,immoral or unethical but be creative none the less.
Maybe we can expose him like he tried (and FAILED) to expose My President.
there's all kinds of justice in the world.....theirs...and MINE.
that is all
_________________
U.S. CODE, Hostile Nations Act TITLE 50 CHAPTER 40 Sec. 2301. Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria.(All of them support Terrorism)
All the above Officially come out in support of John Kerry for President of the USA. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
arymann
PO3
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 269
Location: GA
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Detective, you have it wrong.
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=7099
| Quote: | All day Friday, Rather, his producer on the story, Mary Mapes, and other 60 Minutes staffers were scrambling to shore up support from their sources on the story. That effort didn't go so well. By Saturday, one of their key sources, retired Maj. Gen. Bobby Hodges, had said that CBS misled him, and that he had never been shown the memos in question.
"We pulled the trick of only calling some sources at the last minute to reconfirm," says the CBS producer. "Someone called Hodges, I think, on Monday night and read him parts of the document. The late contacts are a standard practice so we don't tip off the competition or our sources."
Hodges is a critical loss for CBS News' credibility. He was the superior officer of the man CBS claims wrote the memo, Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who died in 1984. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Debs
Lieutenant
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 228
Location: Lubbock, Texas
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lively, the head of operations at the TANG in the early '70s was just on Fox and Friends and debunked this whole issue. He said the memos were phony as hell, that Killian was a friend of his and said putting these words in the memos, words Killian would have never said, in the mouth of a dead man was disgusting. Also said that the TANG even flew old planes and would have never had equipment that would have produced those memos, even if such equipment existed, which he doubted. He also interviewed earlier in the spring with the Boston Globe and said they totally distorted what he said. Also said he knew Staudt well and that he retired in March, 1972, and would not and did not have any influence in the Guard after that. He also pointed out there was NOT a waiting list to be a pilot in the TANG, that the waiting list was for the National Guard, not the AIR National Guard. He was great and really debunked everything and I think Fox may be replaying his comments throughout the day.
Debbie
_________________
"No greater love..." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skypilot
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 82
Location: Eastern PA
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
http://www.flounder.com/bush.htm
All right, I think the above link pretty much seals the deal on the documents that where shown! So once again let me play the devils advocate here and throw this against the wall. Just suppose there are original documents out there and Rather or who ever have made copies, meaning that only the content was copied? If the originals are ever produced, oh lets say at the end of October, they have already seen the reactions to the content and they can have all the rebuttals covered. I make this argument in the fact that Rather seems so sure and he keeps pointing at the content even though he admits that they are copies. Copies of what….. the content? Can we here disprove the content also? We must try and cover all angles of this story. CBS and Rather sure have a lot at stake here, it seems to me that there may be more to this than meets the eye or maybe I’ve been out on the grassy knoll to long?
 I’m on your side, so don’t shoot at me!
 I hope both Rather and CBS go down for trying to influence an election! :
_________________
Please Mr. Kerry Sign Form #180 Now!
Let the truth set you free? NOT! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steve Z
Rear Admiral
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 687
Location: West Hartford CT
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:21 pm Post subject: "Content" of memos? |
|
|
There do seem to be some serious questions about the content as well--especially the reference to Staudt in 1973, who was retired, and couldn't have any influence on Killian or Bush at that time. Another question concerns the demand by Killian that Bush have his physical exam "no later than" May 14, 1972, when according to the regulations (which Killian would have known) he wasn't required to take the physical until July 6.
But if the CBS documents can be proved to be forgeries, who cares about the content? If a document is known to be falsely attributed to a dead man, can anything it says be believed, when it is contradicted by the man's own widow and son?
_________________
The traitor will crater! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | But if the CBS documents can be proved to be forgeries, who cares about the content? If a document is known to be falsely attributed to a dead man, can anything it says be believed, when it is contradicted by the man's own widow and son? |
That's just the problem. CBS and Rather are trotting out the old mantra of "It's not the nature of the evidence, it's the seriousness of the charge" nonsense.
What this means is that even though it has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that the documents are forged, the CONTENT is being held up as valid, regardless.
So it ALL has to be fisked and debunked until it is demised. MUNGed Until No Good. Picked over until it joins the Choir Invisible. Dead. Dead. Dead.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FireFox
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 84
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think that the other points that the Democrats are attacking on should
have an answer too. I like the "points" argument where he earned a ton
of them earlier on as an argument that he fulfilled his duty.
It would not hurt to have the arguments against the arguments (false). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skypilot
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 82
Location: Eastern PA
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The point I’m making and it appears that you understand what I’m driving home is; You folks with the knowledge on how these documents are constructed should spend a reasonable amount of time looking the content over. This will ensure that this little thing won’t get any legs. The folks on the blog sites do not posses your insight and may not be able to help debunk the content, like they did the script. This is just a thought and maybe this whole thing is a non-issue, but it is always best to be prepared.
_________________
Please Mr. Kerry Sign Form #180 Now!
Let the truth set you free? NOT! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | The point I’m making and it appears that you understand what I’m driving home is; You folks with the knowledge on how these documents are constructed should spend a reasonable amount of time looking the content over. This will ensure that this little thing won’t get any legs. The folks on the blog sites do not posses your insight and may not be able to help debunk the content, like they did the script. This is just a thought and maybe this whole thing is a non-issue, but it is always best to be prepared. |
Oh, my. These documents are being picked over by the best in the business, you can see it if you follow some of the links in the main debunking thread.
And new stuff is bubbling up constantly, the more people look. For example, the MILPERS officer that signed Kerry's DD-214 seems to have landed Kerry's former billet of dogrobber for the Admiral. That's a bit odd, and needs someone looking at it. It may be just a bit too coincidental to be simple happenstance.
And if you look at Beldar's blog site, you'll see that the blogosphere has more experts than you can shake a stick at. And he's only focused that one article on the lawyers. The military side of the blogosphere is equally awesome.
The media can't BRING this kind of expertise to bear. They are stuck in the old paradigm of "resident experts" and "talking heads".
They are SOOOO doomed.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
