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ord33
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 670
Location: Ohio
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 Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I reviewed the debate replay again, and it is clear that President Bush did NOT reach into any pocket to reach his pen, as it was already on the podium, while Sen. Kerry clearly took something out of his pocket. Now I am beginning to wonder more?!?! |
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Ohio Voter
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Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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What I saw was not a pen. He seemed to spread it out in front of him on the podium desk surface. I also saw a flash of white as he palmed whatever it was and it appeared to be thin. There may have already been a pen at the podium. It looked to me like he picked that up seperately.
I watched the debate on Fox. The video tape was set to record a CBS program.
| ord33 wrote: | | I recorded FOX's debate coverage on a DVD and went to check it out. It seems like it most likely was a pen (at least from what I could tell) because he took a cap off and then proceeded to write some things down. However, I could be wrong and I'd like to see the footage from different channels and C-SPAN. Anyways though, arent all the materials (pencils,pen & paper) to be checked with the officials and on the podium before the debate. It is my understanding the candidates were not supposed to take anything with them to the podium. |
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WebTalk
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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I sent an e-mail to Bush/Cheney2004 asking them to review the CSpan video called podium watch and to verify what it was that he took out of his pocket and if that would be a rules violation.
I also e-mailed Fred Barnes at Weekly Standard as a response to his article Not Enough.
Wouldn't it be great?
First Dan Rather AND now Jim Lehrer, who announced in opening remarks that he would be responsible to see that the rules were followed
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hleone
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Are we sure that no notes were allowed? Some debates allow notes.
If prepared notes were specifically prohibited, Kerry probably was just pulling out his $1000 diamond-studded, 24-karat gold monographed John Forbes Kerry cross pen to jot down notes during the debate.
Bush just used the 49 cent BIC pen that had been placed on each podium by the stage crew. |
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arkadyfolkner
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Joined: 12 Sep 2004
Posts: 271
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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the rules barring notes was posted earlier in the thread, yes, it was NOT allowed.
someone really needs to get a screen capture of this! |
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SWVTsupporter
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| No pens, no notes, no nothing allowed. Each debater was allowed to pick out their paper and pen and those items were placed in advance on the lecturn. Somebody needs to ask Kerry why he felt it necessary to bring something on stage and what it was. |
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Wynne
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Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 228
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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I remember seeing Kerry take something out of his pocket too. I wish it were notes. But... could it have been a handkerchief? I wish somebody could get a real close up of this!
(oops  I just reread kimberly's initial post beginning this thread where she says it is not a hanky or kleenex. sorry for my gaffe. still, I would like to see a 'for sure' close up.)
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Last edited by Wynne on Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sleeplessinseattle
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Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 430
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Misty wrote: | According to the rules of the debate, neither campaign is to use any footage of the debate in a public forum. Of course, we know that Kerry's side went out immediately after the debate and ran footage of the President's facial expressions. The debate rules also stated that the speaking candidate was the only one who was supposed to be filmed but the media refused to accept that rule and filmed the non-speaking candidate anyhow.
As usual, it appears that the Dems have circumvented the rules they had agreed to. Frankly, if I were the President I would be pi$$ed. The dems don't even seem bound by their own agreements. They are absolutely not trust-worthy. The American people should beware. |
That is a good point - I think if Kerry gets at all close in this that Bush should point out the obvious credibility issues of the Dems that continue on even into the debates - in other words, take off the kid gloves if need be. Being a little feisty would do him some good...while he's at it he may want to mention Kerry's little vacation in Paris to meet with Binh...just throw it out there and say something about how Paris will not then and will not now be involved in the foreign policy implementation of the United States of America...Tactically, I think the only problem for President Bush is the theory of "not playing to lose." I think he still needs to be positive and assertive (which he is but just a bit moreso) and go out there in Debate 2 and show that. He'll do fine - he's great under pressure - sometimes people need a bit of pressure - so now the President has a bit and he'll come out and correct his (minor) sylistic issues...meanwhile Kerry's contradictions, arrogance and downright treachery & dishonesty will sink him! |
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hanna
Rear Admiral
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 701
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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According to the rules of the debate, it should not matter WHAT Kerry took out of his pocket. If he took ANYTHING out it would be against the rules unless Lehrer had OK'd it.
Something I found interesting was when Kerry was asked about homeland security. At the end of his rant, he said "We will talk about that later". And sure enough, Lehrer asked about it later. Hmmm, I wonder how he knew that??
I tried to see what it was on the CNN video, but it is too blurry. Sure would be great if we could get a good sequence of screen captures.
Great job noticing this and bringing it up. Both of you:) |
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manelly
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Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 294
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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Hi guys  was reading this thread and I also went to CSPAN to take a look. Pause video at 2:07 frame Mr. Kerry clearly has his back turned to the audience as he reaches into his pocket and removes something that requires it to be unfolded and for some reason takes a few seconds longer to reach the lecturn (seems a little strange to me since he is much closer to his lecturn than President Bush and has a much longer stride). Before Mr. Kerry arrives behind his lecturn President Bush is already comfortably taken his place. While Kerry does take a moment to wave to the audience as far as I'm concerned its just simple offer of a distraction to take the audience eyes from Kerry immediately following his wave to President Bush and off Kerry for a moment.
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Last edited by manelly on Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wynne
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Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 228
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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I am really getting angry about this now!  I just reviewed my tape of the debate (watched it on FOX) and saw Kerry take something out of his pocket and put it on the lectern. It did not look like a handkerchief. He then stood there and 'wrote something' as if to 'finesse the event' into making it look like he was 'taking notes' (instead of having just put his notes down in front of his face). I mentioned on another thread Kerry's comment about Homeland Security -- 'we'll talk about that later'. You know, Kerry stood there looking extraordinarily 'composed' -- SMUG is the word through the entire debate. And his hands WERE SHAKING at first -- maybe he was worried he would be found out? I really REALLY wonder now if he did have the questions beforehand and those were his notes he took out of his pocket. And George Bush saw him take those notes out and knew what was going on and that is why he was so po'ed for most of the debate.
God, I hope we can get to the bottom of this and if it is as crooked as it looks, it needs to come out to the trustworthy media!
On the other hand maybe I'm just paranoid... but it's sure beginning to look to me like the 2 + 2 that adds up to FRAUD.
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Last edited by Wynne on Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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neverforget
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Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 875
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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I think that Kerry also cheated by using diplomatic and military sensitive, if not classified, information, and President Bush was somewhat angry about that. I mean damn angry.
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BB Stacker
Seaman
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 150
Location: Eustis Fl
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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All this is very interesting indeed. I hope someone can post a clip of this, or a link. If he did have a cheat sheet, it needs to be exposed. No one will believe it without visual evidence. At this point none of the media will show it again without reason.
It may also be useful to look at the end of the debate to see if Kerry retrieved anything. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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If you go to www.c-span.org and click on the link for the video of the debate, you don't have to wait long - it's right after the two shake hands - the President goes to his lectern and Kerry delays a bit then turns and the camera angle changes and goes to Kerry as he approaches his lectern.
He very clearly removes something from his right breast pocket and places it on the lectern as he comes around the corner and positions himself behind it.
WHAT... that's a good question. I don't think we should jump to conclusions about what it is, but the rules seem pretty clear - that their choice of pen and paper would be placed there, beforehand.
Just another case of Kerry believing that he is above the rules that govern mere mortals, possibly?
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jerake
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 91
Location: IL
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Did anyone see this yet? http://www.powerlineblog.com
| Quote: | The uses of periodical literature
Reader Tim Mattson writes:
Read the [October] Atlantic Monthly article by James Fallows on Iraq and Bin Laden, "Bush's Lost Year." [Only the first couple paragraphs of the article are included on the Atlantic's site.] Kerry's positions on these subjects were almost directly lifted from the Atlantic, especially his line quoting Powell and his criticism of Tora Bora. Any American who reads the Atlantic could have given Kerry's [positions in the debate].
This demonstrates two things about Kerry. First, he lacks any personal vision for American foreign policy. He simply took the latest issue of the Atlantic and adopted it as his own foreign policy. Second, it demonstrates that Kerry has missed so many Senate Intelligence Committee meetings that he is getting all his foreign policy information from a source available to the public at large. One would hope for more from a presidential candidate.
Berkeley economics professor Brad DeLong has posted excerpts of the Fallows article in "James Fallows: The lost year."
Professor Peter Schramm of No Left Turns has also directed us to the excellent column on the debate by Joseph Knippenberg: "Kerry needed a debate home run, but only got a single." |
Maybe it was the article he pulled out of his pocket...  |
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