SwiftVets.com Forum Index SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Libby Indicted??? Rove Still Faces Investigation
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SwiftVets.com Forum Index -> Geedunk & Scuttlebutt
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
joeshero
Commander


Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 321
Location: Midwest

PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WSJ says it best. Where is the crime?


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.

Saturday, October 29, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT

Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation took nearly two years, sent a reporter to jail, cost millions of dollars, and preoccupied some of the White House's senior officials. The fruit it has now borne is the five-count indictment of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the Vice President's Chief of Staff--not for leaking the name of Valerie Plame to Robert Novak, which started this entire "scandal," but for contradictions between his testimony and the testimony of two or three reporters about what he told them, when he told them, and what words he used.

Mr. Fitzgerald would not comment yesterday on whether he had evidence for the perjury, obstruction of justice and false statement counts beyond the testimonies of Mr. Libby and three journalists. Instead, he noted that a criminal investigation into a "national security matter" of this sort hinged on "very fine distinctions," and that any attempt to obscure exactly who told what to whom and when was a serious matter.

Let us stipulate that impeding a criminal investigation is indeed a serious matter; no one should feel he can lie to a grand jury or to federal investigators. But there is a question to be asked about the end to which the accused allegedly lied. The indictment itself contains no motive. And Mr. Libby is not alleged to have been the source for Robert Novak's July 14, 2003 column, in which Valerie Plame's employment with the CIA was revealed.

Rather, according to the indictment, Mr. Libby did a little digging, found out who Joe Wilson's wife was, and apparently told Judith Miller of the New York Times, who never wrote it up, and Matthew Cooper of Time magazine, who put it into print after Mr. Novak's column had run. What's more, he allegedly did not talk to Tim Russert of NBC about it, although he claimed that he had. Mr. Libby then didn't tell a grand jury and the FBI the truth about what he told those reporters, the indictment claims.

If this is a conspiracy to silence Administration critics, it was more daft than deft. The indictment itself contains no evidence of a conspiracy, and Mr. Libby has not been accused of trying to cover up some high crime or misdemeanor by the Bush Administration. The indictment amounts to an allegation that one official lied about what he knew about an underlying "crime" that wasn't committed. And we still don't know who did tell Mr. Novak--presumably, it was the soon-to-be-infamous "Official A" from paragraph 21 of the indictment, although we don't know whether Official A was Mr. Novak's primary source or merely a corroborating one.

To the extent that the facts alleged in the indictment can be relied upon, the story goes something like this. Sometime in May 2003, or slightly before, Nicholas Kristof, a columnist for the New York Times, was informed of Joe Wilson's 2002 trip to Niger to investigate claims that Saddam Hussein had attempted to buy yellowcake there. Mr. Kristof wrote a column, and Mr. Libby began to ask around, to determine why a Democratic partisan had been sent on such a sensitive mission in the run-up to the Iraq war. He allegedly learned in the course of his inquiries that Mr. Wilson's wife worked for the CIA.
Mr. Fitzgerald alleges that Mr. Libby informed Judith Miller of the New York Times about Mr. Wilson's wife in June, but she never wrote it up. In the meantime, Mr. Wilson went public with his own account of his mission and its outcome, without reference to his wife's employment or possible involvement in his trip.

Mr. Libby also spoke to Mr. Cooper of Time about it, who did write it up, but only after Mr. Novak's column had run. In this same time period, he had a conversation with Mr. Russert, which may or may not have covered Mr. Wilson and his wife, depending on whom you believe.

So, we are left with this. Did Mr. Libby offer the truth about Mr. Wilson to Mr. Cooper "without qualifications," as Mr. Fitzgerald alleges, or did he merely confirm what Mr. Cooper had heard elsewhere? Did he, or did he not, discuss Mr. Wilson with Tim Russert at all?

On this much we can agree with Mr. Fitzgerald: These are "very fine distinctions" indeed, especially as they pertain to discussions that occurred two years ago, and whose importance only became clear well after the fact, when investigators came knocking. In a statement yesterday, Mr. Libby's counsel zeroed in on this point when he said, "We are quite distressed the Special Counsel has now sought to pursue alleged inconsistencies in Mr. Libby's recollection and those of others' and to charge such inconsistencies as false statements." He added that they "will defend vigorously against these charges."


On the answers to these questions hang a possible 30-year jail term and $1.25 million in fines for a Bush Administration official who was merely attempting to expose the truth about Mr. Wilson, a critic of the Administration who was lying to the press about the nature of his involvement in the Niger mission and about the nature of the intelligence that it produced. In other words, Mr. Libby was defending Administration policy against political attack, not committing a crime.
Mr. Fitzgerald has been dogged in pursuing his investigation, and he gave every appearance of being a reasonable and tough prosecutor in laying out the charges yesterday. But he has thrust himself into what was, at bottom, a policy dispute between an elected Administration and critics of the President's approach to the war on terror, who included parts of the permanent bureaucracy of the State Department and CIA. Unless Mr. Fitzgerald can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Libby was lying, and doing so for some nefarious purpose, this indictment looks like a case of criminalizing politics.
_________________
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dcornutt
PO3


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 267
Location: Brooklyn, NY

PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my thoughts:

For all the hemming and hawing about Plame....and the damage to the "country" that happened because of her "outing"....Wilson...was doing MORE damage to this country...by making such irresponsible and outrageous inflammatory statements..in WARTIME!! Things that underminded our entire nation...that slung mud on the WH...with mischaracterizations..and attributed motivations...that was picked up and USED against the US by foreign govs and the international press and moonbats all over the world!

For the speech that Powell gave...that he says...we KNEW everything in that was a "lie"...there's George Tenent (Plames BOSS) sitting RIGHT behind powell at the UN ..went with him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dcornutt
PO3


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 267
Location: Brooklyn, NY

PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more thoughts:
Fitz's press conference was convoluted. That wasn't missed by some astute reporters. It was far less than clear. He contiually referenced the dangers to our nation of outing covert operatives etc and the damage that does to everyone...and yet..made no charge that anyone was guilty of that crime?

If Plame's covert status didn't reach the level needed to be even covered under the statute that this prosecution was brought...then that should have been a 2 week process! Done. This "request" for investigation was supposedly brought by the CIA. Bah. It was delivered by someone within the CIA alright....to Rep Conyers!!! It was Conyers who pushed for this!

And seeing no charge in the original "crime"...Fitz..then got expanded powers to look into a broader "conspiricy" charge. Also..which he found no evidence to charge anybody with. But, managed to get inconsistent statements after 2 years of Grand Jury...from Libby and Rove. Enough so that he inicted Libby...not for any conspiricy or breaking any law in revealing the information he did. But, for making inconsistent statements about the timeline in which he did it. The inconsitent statements that Rove made..were obvously cleared up enough that no charges were brought against him.

Then..Fitz goes on TV talking about the damage and etc...outing covert operatives does? Gimee a break! What about the damage it does to have some lieing sleezeball...leak info and write op-ed pieces and go on TV accusing the WH of "twisting intelligence" and out right lieing...and underminding the position of our national security during WAR!

And if we "really" want to get into this....that such revelations of information are dangerous to our contry...do damage to our nation..and security...what of who "actually" leaks this stuff every single day and demands the right to do so??? (THE PRESS).

Libby and Rove dont' write op-ed columns and sell newspapers. The press demands the right to such "secret" and anon sources...in the "pulbic" interest to "know". That it holds gov accoutable. Now...they want to say..that the people who provide them with the information that they seek and that THEY print and dissemante into the public..should be the one's held responsible? How about THEIR responsiblity...to use some friggin discretion during wartime or about issues that might jeapordize national security and everyone's safety (regardless of how they come to "know" about it)?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Deuce
Senior Chief Petty Officer


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 589
Location: FL

PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcornutt wrote:
Here's my thoughts:

For all the hemming and hawing about Plame....and the damage to the "country" that happened because of her "outing"....Wilson...was doing MORE damage to this country...by making such irresponsible and outrageous inflammatory statements..in WARTIME!! Things that underminded our entire nation...that slung mud on the WH...with mischaracterizations..and attributed motivations...that was picked up and USED against the US by foreign govs and the international press and moonbats all over the world! .....


Hmmm, sounds like Kerry, Jr. doesn't it....birds of a feather! There were those back in the late 60's who pointed out that the American public is easily deceived by these methods. And that we could expect the same for future wars....Clark Clifford was one such easily deceived individual who went on to talk Johnson out of his war! Wonder who Joe is trying to influence! and where he got his playbook, as if I had to ask!

Deuce
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SBD
Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022

PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do they keep saying that it was Cheney that first told Libby that Wilson's wife was in the CIA when the report clearly says that it was John Bolton who told him before Cheney did?

Libby is taking the fall for Bolton, not Cheney and Judith Miller's source was probably also Bolton, that is why he went to visit her in jail and soon after she said her source released her from the confidentiality. In addition, Judith Miller probably already knew about Valerie when she was writing those stories on WMD and Bolton probably knew that as well.

SBD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Deuce
Senior Chief Petty Officer


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 589
Location: FL

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joeshero,

if you liked the WSJ, then you'll rave over Suntimes Steyn:

Quote:
All last week, lefty gloaters were eagerly anticipating "Fitzmas," their designation for that happy day when federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald hands down indictments against Libby, and Rove, and maybe Cheney, and -- boy oh boy, who knows? -- maybe Chimpy Bushitlerburton himself. Pat Fitzgerald has been making his list, checking it twice, found out who's naughty or nice, and he's ready to go on a Slay Ride leaving Bush the Little Drummed-Out Boy and the Dems having a blue blue blue blue blue-state Christmas in November 2006, if not before.

Well, I enjoy the politics of personal destruction as much as the next chap, and one appreciates that it's been a long time since the heady days when Dems managed to collect the scalps of both Newt Gingrich and his short-lived successor within a few short weeks.


and

Quote:
Most Americans have never heard of any of these people. What's that? You've heard of Scooter? No, you're mistaken, you're thinking of Skeeter -- Skeeter Davis, the late country-and-western singer who had a Top Three hit in 1963 with "Don't They Know It's The End of The World/It Ended When You Said Goodbye,"


more at:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn30.html

and now that the case has found a non-liberal judge, it may even find justice in DC, as amazing as that may seem!

Deuce
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
joeshero
Commander


Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 321
Location: Midwest

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deuce, that's an excellent piece, entertaining and yet right to the point. Thanks. Joe.
_________________
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GM Strong
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Penna

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fitmas Morning and the whining brat.

_________________
8th Army Korea 68-69
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SwiftVets.com Forum Index -> Geedunk & Scuttlebutt All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group