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**** Exactly what Kerry records are missing?
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air_vet
PO2


Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 374

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:15 am    Post subject: only a butter-bar Reply with quote

Dane (and others),

As I said last week, I looked over all the fitness reports on the candidate Kerry website. Yes, I know there may be unacccounted for pages, etc., but having written a lot of Air Force Performance Reports on junior officers, unless they were REALLY bad (VERY RARE) they got good reports. Reading Kerry's, there were several of the canned, boiler-plate statements some people used to get through the writing process as quickly as possible. Hey, there was a war going on - why waste time writing about a butter-bar. Promotion to 0-2 and 0-3 was automatic and Kerry made both on time. It's when you get to the 0-4 promotion that the reports started separating the men from the boys. Candidate Kerry was gone LONG before then.

I didn't see any smoking guns in the reports, but then, I really didn't expect to see any.

I want to see if there are any smoking guns in the period 3 Jan 70 (released from EAD) and 16 Feb 76 (discharged from Naval Reserve).
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Dane
Lt.Jg.


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 114
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don´t know about the Air Force and I don´t know how the Navy was back then, but reading those fitreps and extrapolating them to my time, they are bad. As you say, getting to O-3 is pretty much guaranteed. Thus the fitreps are pretty much "boiler-plate" - again using your words. But these early fitreps are used to determine who will make it to O-4. I see the subtle signs that the CO was not at all happy with Kerry´s performance and made his feelings known in the "secret" fitrep code of the Navy . Somewhere in the 5,000 topics on this site, there is a good explanation of this system - written by someone who wrote and read fitreps back in "those days".

For example, in one of the fitreps, Kerry is adulated as being "one of the most outstanding officers that I have ever seen". Of the five LT(jg)s evaluated at the same time, four fell into the same category. Oh, our system has its nuances!!!

Dane
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air_vet
PO2


Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dane wrote:
For example, in one of the fitreps, Kerry is adulated as being "one of the most outstanding officers that I have ever seen". Of the five LT(jg)s evaluated at the same time, four fell into the same category. Oh, our system has its nuances!!!


Yes, I noticed that and other similar things - but there was nothing in them to keep him from being promoted to 0-4 had he stayed in. Like I said, they were good but not great. He could find his way to and from the head without getting lost. I notice no one commented on his skills with an M-79 Wink

Another difficulty is that he was never in one place long enough to make possible a detailed report. Given the short supervision coupled with his extra duty writing assignment on the Gridley, I wouldn't be surprised to find out he had done the drafts on a couple of the reports himself.
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Dane
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, there were things that would have kept him from O-4. Things not said but very obvious in their absence. For example, he did not qualify as OOD Underway. That in itself is the kiss of death. One can be the best damned Electrical Officer in the Navy but ya ain´t goin´ nowhere without that ticket-punch. And Public Affairs Officer is a collateral duty; if you do really well it MAY help a little. If you do badly, it doesn´t hurt. It is officially a non-existant billet.

You´re right, though: many times an enterprising officer will draft his own fitrep and wait until the last moment to offer it to his harried department head. He, in turn, may be so busy and so tired that he will just forward it to the CO with no changes. You must remember that life at sea for an officer means about two hours of sleep per night - with luck. Yes, I did this sort of thing but then - I´m not running for President.

Dane
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air_vet
PO2


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dane wrote:
For example, he did not qualify as OOD Underway. That in itself is the kiss of death. One can be the best damned Electrical Officer in the Navy but ya ain´t goin´ nowhere without that ticket-punch.


I had noticed that he took the 10-week officer damage control course and received training as a Combat Information Center Watch Officer. I wasn't sure how much responsibility would have been given to a butter-bar on a ship like the Gridley. I thought the PA job was about the level of responsibility given an 0-1.

Believe me, I was a master of the art of "the finely tuned word" in writing APR/OER reports. We had quite a discussion a week or so ago about the process.

Over my 30 year career, I certainly had a fair amount of input to MY OERs!! Nothing wrong with that!
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Dane
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it hard to believe that the DC school was ten weeks in length. When I went through it was only two days. Again, the PAO job is a collateral duty and there is no school. There is a correspondence course that one can complete. It is not a billet aboard ship. I was a PAO while my primary billet was Gunnery Officer. I also had some other collateral billets at the same time. I know in the AF it is a billet. There are designated PAOs in the Navy but there are no billets for them aboard ships except for carriers and flagships (as Flag staff).

CIC Officer course should not be more than a week in length. The basic information and theory is taught to all officers. As an example, each officer must qualify as a CIC Watch Officer without benefit of any special course.

No, Kerry had a pretty typical grooming period but left his first ship without being OOD qualified. This is a mortal sin.

Dane
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air_vet
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dane wrote:
Again, the PAO job is a collateral duty and there is no school.


Dane,

Yes, I understood that. As a young butter-bar non-flying maintenance officer in a flying unit, I caught all kinds of extra duties, PAO, Ground Safety Officer, etc.

I assume OOD is "Oficer of the Deck" - is this correct?

It sounds like it is an on-ship qualification with no school. Correct?

The candidate Kerry course information I listed came from his Service Timeline on his website.
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Dane
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mistake. Everybody goes through a 3 or 5-day DC school and I was thinking of that. Kerry completed the DC Officer course. That is, to prepare him for the billet of DCO aboard a ship. Ten weeks sounds about right for that. The billet is called Damage Control Assistant (DCA) these days

Yes, Officer of the Deck (Underway) which these days includes formation steaming. In his days, that was a separate qual.

These days, if an officer does not qualify as an OOD on his first ship, he´ll spend the rest of his obligated service somewhere like Runway Officer on Midway, and then booted.

Dane
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Dane
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What we need is someone in D.C. that can do some dedicated reasearch in the archives and try to find absolute proof of lies.

http://www.history.navy.mil/

explains the Historical Center.

In mathematics, if only ONE exception to a theory can be found , the entire theory is a bust. If we can find one absolute, unequivocable example of a lie, the entire house of cards will fall.

Dane
sunny winter day in Chile
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Dane
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:04 pm    Post subject: Kerry´s FitReps Reply with quote

I now understand what the Kerry crew is doing on his web site with the FitReps.

They present his favorable FitReps starting from GRIDLEY and present the rest in chronological order. All well and good. But we get to his Detaching FitRep from COSDIV11 and this is followed by the second page only of "another" FitRep. The idea is that the casual reader will assume that it is a separate FitRep. Or, perhaps, the person that included it on the site did not understand what he was looking at. In fact it is the replacement for the Detaching Fitrep that supposedly never arrived to BuPers. The first page is not included because that would show the reporting period and the reader would realize the truth of the matter.

The inclusion of both versions on his site is a grave tactical error. It is proof of hanky-panky. I will explain.

1. The new and improved version was requested by BuPers when Elliot was in Newport. BuPers did not request a copy from the originating command which is the normal procedure. Instead, they checked to see where Elliot was at the time and asked him to resubmit. Very unusual.

2. Elliot did not contact COSDIV 11 to have them resubmit the original. Instead, he chose to draft another Fitrep. Very unusual.

3. One must assume that it was done by memory since, if he had had a copy of the original, he would have simply sent that.

4. But if we assume that it was done by memory, how is it that it appears so similar to the original?

I contend that whoever drafted the replacement version had the original in hand. Thus, this was not a case of the original never reaching BuPers but, rather, a case of replacing the original with a more glowing version. And this required coordination.

I am willing to bet that the official records of Kerry in the archives will show only the new, improved version of the FitRep. I bet that Kerry had the original version in his personal files and turned it over to his staff. Not realizing the significance of the matter, both versions were placed on his site.

To me, though, it is proof of a machination that was operating IOT help Kerry in his bid for the Senate. And this would have been done at the admiral level. More on that later.

Dane
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jwbarden
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: Orlando, FL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kerry's schools between NAVOCS and Gridley appear to be normal, reflecting his duties as prospective Electrical Officer and likely watchstations in a heavy duty AAW platform. In length, the 5 months of post-accession source schooling approximates the SWOS Basic or Division Officer Course instituted in the mid-'70's. He also needed to cool his heels until Gridley returned from WESTPAC in JUN67.

I regard his history as a Division Officer in Gridley as downright queer, though. From JUN67 to DEC67, he is Electrical Officer in the Engineering Department, following his school training. He then swaps over to First Lieutenant in the Weapons Department. This sort of cross assignment of junior officers happens all the time, but usually not until the midpoint of a 30-36 month tour.

Further, his FITREP for this period makes no mention of his efficiency as EO or that of E Division. You would think that the performance of 60 Hz and 400 Hz electrical generation and distribution, interior communications including engineering plant controls and alarms, gyrocompasses, engineering interface with combat systems, and the shipwide electrical safety program would be matters of interest. And isn't it odd the the CHENG wouldn't fight the reassignment of a JO just beginning to fit into the department and its operations? (Anecdotal evidence on the Gridley alumni site leads me to believe that the Chief Engineer had Kerry's number.)

From DEC 67 until his departure in MAY68, Kerry is in charge of the deck seamanship division, responsible for topside preservation, underway replentishment stations, and small boat seamanship, among other things. Gridley is on a truncated WESTPAC cruise from JAN68 to MAY68. Gridley was to begin a 2-year modernization at Bath Ironworks in JUL68, meaning that no underway qualifications were likely to take place after the ship's return to homeport. Kerry's request for an exceptionally early split tour (to take place 11 months after reporting rather than the normal 24 months for the first part of a split DIVO tour) is rational on his part, but his failure to buckle down on the WESTPAC and get his OOD(F) letter demonstrates a lack of interest and initiative. There is also no evidence of his having qualified as CICWO, despite extensive preparation and what one former Gridley Radarman describes as "endless midwatches in CIC."

I interpret Kerry's unusual flight to 5 months of Swiftboat school and subsequent assignment to coastal patrol in RVN as a personal "exit strategy" from a demanding situation in Gridley where he was likely not headed for success.
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Dane
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:10 am    Post subject: By your leave Reply with quote

Great analysis. I ass-u-me that you are either CDR or CAPT.

OK, good. GRIDLEY is going into the yards for two years and Kerry sees his chance. Nothing wrong with that. He knows that he will not make the Navy a career so OOD means nothing to him. Fine. He requests PCF duty (but where? Coastal? Riverine?) Again, fine. I cannot fault him for this since I did the same. My motives were different, though.

OK, he was not an exceptional SWO. That, in itself, does not disqualify him from being president. So we can conclude that his tour aboard GRIDLEY does not come into play in the campaign.

But let´s look at the documents that he did _not_ put up on his site:

1. The injury report that justifies his first PH. It was awarded 78 days after the date of the "wound". In comparison, the second was delayed 13 days and the third required 33 days. These were approved in Saigon - hardly an international mail problem.

2. The OPNAV 1650/3 that recommended a Silver Star.

3. The requests that resulted in two revisions of the citation for the Silver Star.

4. The requests for the amendment of his DD-214 and the justificactions.

5. His medical records that justify the three Purple Hearts

6. Page 1 of the radio message to BuPers that transmitted the new and improved detaching FitRep

7. Page 1 of the new and improved FitRep

I would like to see these documents.

Dane
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Dane
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:07 pm    Post subject: DD-215 Reply with quote

Can anyone guess why Kerry requested a change to his DD-214? The DD-215 changed the date of transfer to inactive duty to March instead of January. This was done at his request and, therefore, he had some motive for requesting the change. What might the motive be?

How can the Navy change the date when Kerry did not work, did not receive pay, and cannot justify the change? Just what the hell is going on here?

This change was requested in 2001 - right when Kerry was planning his bid for the presidency. Obviously, he thought that this change would result in some advantage for him. What might it be?

Dane
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Dane
Lt.Jg.


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:07 pm    Post subject: DD-215 Reply with quote

Can anyone guess why Kerry requested a change to his DD-214? The DD-215 changed the date of transfer to inactive duty to March instead of January. This was done at his request and, therefore, he had some motive for requesting the change. What might the motive be?

How can the Navy change the date when Kerry did not work, did not receive pay, and cannot justify the change? Just what the hell is going on here?

This change was requested in 2001 - right when Kerry was planning his bid for the presidency. Obviously, he thought that this change would result in some advantage for him. What might it be?

Dane
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jwbarden
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:34 pm    Post subject: the DD-215 Reply with quote

This is a tough riddle.

Kerry's normal RELACDU would have occured in DEC70, 4 years from his date of commissioning. He requested and was granted early release from active duty in JAN70. The ostensible reason was to allow for his quixotic and quickly aborted Democratic primary run for Congress against Fr. Drinan.

The circumstances surrounding Kerry's assignment as RADM Whatzhiz' aide are as queer as the rest of his service history. He gets his fourth PH, waits 4 days, decides to invoke the 1300.xx reg and leave RVN, and presto-magico, an admiral's aide billet magically opens up. And they probably had an SR-71 waiting to whisk him to New York. (I imagine the knocking of heavy rings, and I don't mean NAVCAD grad rings.) Nine months later, the admiral is sick up to the gizzard with Kerry spending all his time ferrying RFK's radical ex-speechwriter around New York State to anti-war events that he gladly approves the early out.

OK, my guess is that the admiral's staff is eligible during the JAN-MAR70 time frame for a MUC or NUC or other some such, and Kerry wanted one for the collection.
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