SwiftVets.com

[Beatrice1000]

[Marine4life]

I personally would look to moveon.org and a few others to start. Then Al Quetta. They are all propagandists. Terrorists think that we are mentally weak, and a threat to our Veteran's will make us shut up about the puppet they want in the Whitehouse. Kerry isn't smart enough to pull something like that off but he would jump on their band wagon. Unfortunatly I don't think Kerry is involved, but I highly suspect moveon.org which as we know is attached to Kerry at the hip. I certainly don't think that they are feeling out the Veteran vote. I would not put domestic terrorism past the radical left which describes moveon.org. Semper Fi.
_________________
Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes.

[Beatrice1000]

[bagpiper]

Political correctness will be the death of this country. Like 'Social Correctness' was the death of the Soviet Union. (They lied to themselves to the point of self destruction. So the KGB said. There is also the thought, that it was ALL a KGB ruse... That may be a rather strong statement, but, when you start fighting a war this way, your enemy is laughing at you all the way to the finish line. And like the NVA, the Islamists take the LONG VIEW.
SO, what would I do if I were Pres? Implement the Alien Enemies Act, the Roosevelt Solution (Which is still on the books btw). And, it may come down to that if the bastards hit us hard. After 911 there were over 800 murders of arab looking men, next time it might be much worse.
PC was not a factor in WWII, they had information about Japanese spy rings in the country, so they 'relocated' folks from 'militarily sensitive' zones on the coasts. They DID NOT relocate ALL japanese or German/Italian ethnic type folks. What the hell are 'sleeper cells' ? and why would we continue to just let them have free reign?

It is my firm opinion, that this should be considered. I myself am getting as tired of living with athis as anyone, and that is what it'll come down to, fear, or tired of living this way. This country will self destruct if this goes on for a 'generation'...
Do I say we should put 'em ALL on a boat? Nah, but, if you weren't born here, or, you don't have any paper that says you belong here, or bad paper, you're history. Even if you do 'belong' here, you'll take a loyalty oath to your God, Allah. Now, you wanna talk about driving the libs off the deep end... I would send the FBI door to door, in every neighborhood. Scary? Yeah sure, but, if you ain't Arab or Muslim, you've got nothing to fear.
Part of me, has lost the faith, that ANY government can protect you from this kinda 'fifth column' attack. The ONLY way to solve it, was/is the Roosevelt Solution I'm sorry to say. I have good reason for this attitude. I have a 911 story that I've never told but I'll tell it to you guys/gals. I saw two arab looking guys dancing and giving the high five in the parking lot as 'it' went down. I was riding in to work and hadn't heard yet. Didn't know what these guys were dancing about, but, I knew one of 'em...or rather, was acquainted. After I got to work and saw a TV, I was so incensed, I ran back out in the parking lot, ready to kill 'em both, all I had was a big stick, but, I would probably have used it. (That old Kerry anger coming to the surface, ya know?) Lucky for me, they were gone. But, I knew one of 'em. So, a couple days later I made it a point to talk to him. I asked him how he felt about the disaster ('9-11' hadn't made into the lexicon yet.) He said to me that he was ashamed as a Muslim, that such evil could be done in the name of his religion. I just smiled and went on with my business, fuming inside at his obvious lie.

Part of my business after that day, was researching the Koran and Islam. What I found out would shock you, and, is totally out of line with what the 'media' says. Their 'Holy Book' says it is ok to lie, cheat, steal, or murder, as long as it is done in the service of Jihad. I also found out, that the 'minority' of Muslims that beleive in this violent 'External Jihad', number upwards of 1/4 of all Muslims...so if there are 1 BILLION of them, that works out to about 250 million or so?
What does that tell you about what we are up against? Who, of these so called 'Muslim moderates' are merely helping them buy time? Helping them under the covers. How many are simply cowards, but, will keep their mouth shut, because, also in their Koran, they will be killed if they do say anything against their 'brothers'. They have learned the 'victim ruse' well, and they have the liberal media and establishment eating out of their hands. One day, the establishment, when the knife is sticking out of their backs, will simply say "Why? We were NICE to you?"... The liberals just don't get it. The Islamists want to FULFILL PROPHECY! "The world is Allahs and ALL shall bow to the will of Allah." I read their damnable book until I got sick to my stomach.

I hear that there are rumors of 'thousands' of Arab looking men coming across the Mexican border. I also hear that the Islamists say their 'army' is 'in America' almost ready to spring from the inside. Anyone who hears this and just shrugs his shoulders, after 911, is a fool, or, a liberal/leftist.
I for one, am sick of this PC way to fight a war...I've now seen statements (on FoxN) that the Border Patrol has been hamstrung with what they can do to capture people, like forced to have 'fixed' positions that they can't move out of, that's insane. Yet, we hear the Bushies say they have 'improved' border security, while the actual agents are raising hell about having their hands tied? Yet I hear the conspiracy nuts say it is planned this way so they can declare marshal law after the next 911, that Bush knows this is going on and is depending on it. ********. The politics with Mexico and Mexican farm workers has his hands tied. PC at work again...how much worse would it be under JFnK? God help us.

The sad part is, I'm sure as I'm sitting here, that there ARE loyal American Muslims, the problem is, HOW do you know WHO they are? How do you separate the wheat from the chaff? I don't remember any blond norwegians or Irish catholics or any other 'group' flying airplanes into buildings. I don't know of any other ethnic group, that has suicide as a basic tenet of their religion. And make no mistake, religion has everything to do with this. Christians aren't allowed to kill themselves except to save someone else, giving ones life for his brother is the highest form of love. Don't remember anything about virgins in heaven either. And an afterlife, or the promise thereof, is the only practical reason someone would do the things that were done on 911... Personally, I'd like to go visit them in hell when I get to heaven. (A military man on a 'suicide mission' is far different from a jihadist suicide mission. One doesn't want to die, but will if he has to, to 'save' somebody else or accomplish the mission. The other wants to die, intends to die, big difference.)

I read somewhere that Captain "BlackJack" Pershing had a similar problem with the Moro rebels in the Phillipenes in about 1910 or so, he ended it, by capturing them, digging graves, cutting up a pig, and shooting the captives whilst stuffing their mouths and covering their bodies with pig guts while he buried them in front of his mates. He was sending them to HELL, by defiling them, using their religion against them. He let one of them live to carry word back to his comrades...he didn't have any more problems...I beleive the Philipenes was rebel free for 50 years after that. I'm not to sure of the sources on that story, but, it sounded plausible. Any military history buffs have anything to say about it? Anyway, that's what we need to do, round 'em up and send 'em home or send 'em to hell. I would put out on the wire, that, the US Military will begin coating all ordinance in Pig Lard... So they would know, that fighting us, get's 'em a one way ticket to hell. Can you imagine what the Muslim apologists would say? Whew! How many terrorists would quit?

War is not just physical fighting as we all know from the '70s, it is a mind game, and you either play the game, or get played. We are being played, and the Pres' is bowing to PC pressure I think, in a lot of his decisions. Even though I support the strategic decision to take Iraq. (Between Iran and Syria, what a BASE!) I mean seriously, what does Iran need with nuclear power plants when they are sitting on an ocean of oil? Almost FREE energy and they need nukes? You'll have a hard time convincing me. I'm afraid we'll wake up one morning and be in the middle of Armageddon, because of PC. If Israel gets hit with nukes, how many of you think we're gonna sit it out on the sidelines? If we bomb their nuke plants they'll be pissed, but, we'll have another generation to not have to worry about them.

I don't know, maybe I am an 'extremist', but, I like to think I'm just logical. I would rather read Sun Tsu's ideas, than people like JFnK....sorry, but this geopolitical stuff that is happening, is almost biblical and we just keep "eating and drinking and marrying" and....continue being ostriches.
I think a poster on another thread was correct, Bush is desperately attempting to prevent this from becoming a religious war, but it already is. The Islamists consider this the 'Third Great Jihad', THEIR WWIII. We just haven't gotten the message yet, but God help us, I think we will, only, I just hope it isn't too late. If JFnK gets elected, he WILL APPEASE them, to our long term detriment. (Witness Sadr's tactics, push..negotiate, push...negotiate...understand? Buy time to build your support. And the PC's then declare PEACE, simply because the bullets have stopped flying. Duh. We'll see him again. How many times has this gone on, 4, 5?)

Sorry to go on, I have a big unPC mouth sometimes...anger does that to you... I'm fully cognizant that my ideas sometimes are not compatible with 'polite' society, but, theres the rub. Polite Society has no business fighting wars. Escpecially this kind of asymmetrical war.

DMLambert
ex-SP4 '72-'75

[Beatrice1000]

[bagpiper]

Beatrice,
I agree, sometimes I don't know if I even agree with myself...! I don't like the Roosevelt Solution, but, I don't see any other choice. The subject just has too many conflicting dimensions. If feel for the President having to deal with all of this, and, hasn't the luxury of sitting on the sidelines... He has to DO something about it, being bombarded on all sides by conflicting advice...utilmately, he has to make a political decision. Mostly a Presidents job is to protect all of us, that's all the real power he has, Constitutionally. I commend him for doing what he has done, we have to ask ourselves, what would the War on Terror look like under an Al Gore administration...I'll take a whack at it...


'Mini' Turner Diary (IF you've never read it, don't bother, it's insane. Much like this following 'alternate history' account. )
****************
CNN
October 1, 2001

"President Al Gore today, visited Ground Zero in New York. He shouted to the gathered fire fighters from a bullhorn a half a block from the rescue effort:
I feel your pain....blah blah blah...
I will be federalizing the national guard, to help you guys get this mess cleaned up, we will find those responsible, and bring them to justice....blah blah blah..."

The firefighters it was reported, were uninspired, but thankful for the Presidents short visit. Some complained that the President should have at least gone down to the 'Pile' to stand on it, and smell it, instead of shouting at them from a block away on a bullhorn. The Presidents spokesman said "We advised him, it just wasn't safe for the President to go down there. He agreed. So we did it from the dais we setup for him."

CNN
November 11, 2001

"The President today has announced that he will go on TV tonight, with an address to the nation. The address is scheduled for 8 PM. Stay tuned to CNN...."

8 PM that same night:
President Al Gore
"My fellow Americans. The FBI, CIA, and other government agencies, have determined that Al Quieda, the shadowy terrorist group run by this man (shows picture) Usama Bin Laden, are the ones responsible for the terrible tragedy of Sept 11. I, your President, have now authorized the FBI and CIA, to hunt this criminal down, and bring him to justice. I have personally authorized a 25 million dollar reward to anyone that provides information leading to his capture.
The events of September 11, 2001, as gruesome and horrible as they are, have given me the moral authority to hunt this man down to the ends of the earth, him and all his cohorts. There are those, who think this criminal tragedy is a 'Declaration of War' on the U.S.. and that we should respond in kind by attacking the Taliban of Afghanistan, those who harbor this criminal. War, my fellow Americans, is something I can speak to, having been in Vietnam, I can tell you, it is not something this President will easily condone. REAL WAR involves killing, on a mass scale. It will not bring back our innocents who died on September 11th. War involves civilian casualties, and collateral damage. Too many innocents die in war, consequently, I cannot sanction unilateral action against an innocent country. We have been in contact with the Taliban Government, and have expressed our strong displeasure of them harboring bin Laden, that they turn him over to us, so that he can be brought before the bar of justice. The Taliban have not been forthcoming. Therefore, I will go to the UN to ask for economic sanctions to be placed against their country until such time as they comply with our request. We strongly urge the Taliban Government to comply with our request. My fellow Americans, Islam is a peaceful religion, I urge you, please, do not take any further actions against your fellow Muslim citizens. I am sure they are all as horrified by the events of September 11th, as we are.
Thank you, and God Bless America."

CNN
November 12

"Riots broke out in several major cities today, protesting the Presidents lack of decisive actions against Afghanistan. In Chicago, New York, and DC, Veterens Groups are calling the President a Traitor, as well as other names we cannot air. The FBI and local authorities have called out the National Guard to restore order., It is reported that most of these Veterans were Vietnam vets. Our correspondent on the scene in Chicago, John P. Crapspeaker, John? are you there?"

"Yeah Cindy, we are here in downtown Chicago, where as you can see, we have a crowd of vets on the one side, throwing things at the police and National Guard units, oh, wait a minute...SOMEBODY IS FIRING Cindy! Somebody is firing a weapon, now more firing, some of the vets are going down in the street! My God Cindy, this is turning into a war zone! The National Guard has opened fire on the crowd! The cops are now turning on the National Guard attempting to get them to stop! Oh my God Cindy, this is turning into a melee! Let's get out of here! ..."
Cindy the anchor, dumbstruck, "Uh....this is CNN." GO TO COMMERCIAL!

CNN
November 13

"The President today, signed an executive order, granting Marshall law authority and Federalizing all National Guard units. All National Guard members are hereby called to active duty.
The President, speaking in the rose garden today, said. "It is a sad day on the soul of America, I love democracy, but as of today, until such time as 'Order is restored', I hereby disband Congress under the authority given me under the Constitution and declare that a state of Marshall Law exists in all these 50 states of the Union...".

CNN
November 14
"Three states, South Carolina, North Carolina and Georgia, today, have declared that they secede from the Union. The various state legislatures have given the Govenors Emergency Powers and ordered the seccesions. They have declared that all National Guard unit commanders will report to the Govenors office at noon tomorrow. The Federalization Orders of the President of the United States are ordered void and of Null effect. The Govenor of North Carolina, speaking to a joint session said "This great state will not be held captive to an out of control Federal Government. This President, has lost his mind. Instead of going after the terrorists, he goes after our proud veterans. He murders them in the streets and then declares our Constitution null and void? We'll show that bastard. Since the Congress has been shutdown, and our voice in the Federal Government silenced, we send the message to Washington, not on our watch!"

CNN
November 15

"Trucks, all over the country, have stopped. In the middle of highways. Traffic coming to a standstill. All major interstate highways have come to a complete halt, with traffic backed up for miles. The truckers, evidently, are showing solidarity with the secessionist states. The National Guard is having problems moving on the highways. We are told by sources high in the Gore administration, that the President is esconced in the Oval Office, and vows not to leave until this situation is under control. Other sources indicate the President will issue additional executive orders this afternoon. Tennessee, Virginia, Alabama and several western states, Montana and Nevada say they intend to seccede. The seccesionists are also said to be gaining strength in most southern and western states.
In other news, Islamic Mosques all over the country are being burned. The count to date is over 200.
Stay tuned to CNN. "

Fox News
9:30 PM Hannity and Colmes
C: "Sean, how could you support this TREASONOUS behavior? These veterans and truckers are traitors! The President is doing what he has to do to restore order. These seccessionists are going to destroy the union!"
H: "ALan, Alan, my God Alan, how can you still support this crazy man in the White House? If he had just done his job and taken down Afghanistan none of this would be happening.
C: "You would want WAR Sean? A REAL WAR? With bombs and killing, I just don't understand, this President is on the right course..."
H: "DON"T EVEN USE THE WORD "RIGHT" in the same sentence as this murderous bastard in the White House. So you'd rather have war in the streets of America than killing a bunch of raghead terrorists?
C: "They are criminals Sean. They deserve what they get. And those secessionist bastards will get what's coming to them too."
H: "How dare you..." as he gets out of his chair, walks over and does what we have wanted to see forever, he slaps Alan Colmes onto the floor.
"GO TO COMMERCIAL" a producer shouts as the crews jump on the tangle of tv hosts wrestling on the floor...

CNN
November 15
8 PM
Oval Office
"My fellow...Americans...the states that have supposedly seceded from the Union, have performed an illegal act. These truckers are harming National Security. Therefore as your King...uh..uh..President, I am authorizing the National Guard to change their name, they will now be known as the National Security Service. In keeping with this, I have ordered the Posse Commetatus Act Null and void and I have ordered all military units stationed overseas, to immediately withdraw to bases in the United States, where, we must fight a new war. A war against the traitors that have stolen our security. These truckers and secessionists must be stopped, and our roads and highways must be restored to operation. Consequently, from this time forward, the Security Service is hereby authorized to shoot on site and commandeer any truck sitting on Federal property. The interstate highway system is Federal Property. And I urge our fellow Americans to cease and desist this illegal action. Otherwise we will have no choice but to terminate your rights, and confiscate your trucks. Secondly, all states that declare a secession are hereby considered criminals and traitors and will be dealt with. I will restore this union, I will restore the rights of Muslim Americans to walk the streets safely, I will fight this cancer on our country. With force if necessary..."

CNN
November 16
Washington DC
"Citizens, by the droves, are beginning to go hungry since the grocery stores have started to empty, and have begun dividing up into groups supporting the truckers, and those against. There have been incidents of citizens protecting groups of truckers on the highways, bringing them food, water and guns. Groups of armed citizens are also fighting the truckers and their supporters. Armed battles have broken out on the main Interstate 95 corridor south and north of the Washington Metropolitan area. Citizens are urged to stay indoors. "

CNN
November 17
Germany
Press Conference with the Commanding General of the Big Red 1
"Gentleman, I stand before you today with a heavy heart. Half of my troups are fighting the other half. Even the Military Police have become ineffective because of the Great Divide brought on us by our so called Commander in Chief. Hereby, I, and all my officers, refuse this Presidential order, this dictatorial decree. I am disbanding this unit, and authorizing my men to proceed home, and then proceed individually to their chosen destinations. Where they can join the service of their home states, depending on their individual proclivities. I am announcing my retirement, as of yesterday. My deputy has resigned his commission and has returned to Virginia to take up the battle against this madman in the White House.
God Bless my troops, our Nation, and all of her citizens in this time of chaos. "


************
Needless to say, just a stupid quick fantasy....but, ya never know what would have been...we now know, just how crazy Gore is. (Catch his last speech? whew. Talk about Howard Dean...Anybody ever read his book? Earth in the Balance? Pure communism...)
I could go on....but, enough silliness...you get the idea. What would a JFnK administraton hold?

I leave that to your imagination... Watch the Repub Convention for a taste of future craziness...it's already started. This election has all the signs of getting more nasty than 2000, and I hope, with the same result. I guess my whole point is, this nation is going down the same path we went in the 18 and 1960's...anger leading to out of control emotion, leading to, what?

**************

DM Lambert
ex-SP4 '72-75

[NayVBrat]

I have no doubt that Homeland Security is also investigating "homegrown" terrorist groups that would like nothing further than to follow in Timothy McVeigh's shoes.

We would be naive to think that the only ones who hate America are non-Americans. Plenty of Americans hate their own country...unfortunately.

[Beatrice1000]

[bagpiper]

Beatrice,
Don't tell me you've never heard of "states rights"....we fought a war over that issue...you remember, 'The War of Northern Agression"?
Yankees call it the "Civil war"...winners always get to write history, eh?

I was 12 before I figured out that "DamnYankees" was composed of two words!


DM Lambert
ex-SP4 '72-75

[Beatrice1000]

[bagpiper]

Beatrice,
States Rights, yup...WHAT States Rights....

But, it is ALWAYS lurking there in the background, waiting for some NEW ISSUE to crop up, to be defined. Each state has it's own laws, unless, superseded by Federal law. Witness Alaska trying make pot legal AGAIN. They only gave that up because of federal money. Where in the Constitution do you see any articles against this 'evil' weed?
The Feds will fight it, but, there is nothing they can do to stop it, except keep control of the purse strings, or, pass a federal law, or God help us, a Constitutional amendment...
Notice Massachusetts, and their damnable Gay Marriage interpretation. (Marriage is a gift from God, CODIFIED into mans LAW.) Now, the rest of the states are scrambling to figure out what to do. There is something in the Constitution about 'Fair faith and credit' that will, I'm told, force the other states to recognize marriages from Mass, no matter what.
This is the Bible belt down here. People have a hard time with this issue down here.
Also, I can walk around here, anywhere, with a pistol strapped to my hip. Try that in New York! (I actually did this for a year or so. After my business had a robbery, the cops told me to do that! To scare the bad guys, that, 'word would get around'...they were right!)
That's why the Feds end up acting as 'referee' between the states. They are STATES, not 'provinces'...
So there ARE States rights, but, nowadays you're right, it's about new issues, unthought of by the framers. (And the ubiquitous media 'spin'.)

DMLambert
ex-SP4 '72-'75

[bagpiper]

Beatrice,
States Rights, yup...WHAT States Rights....

But, it is ALWAYS lurking there in the background, waiting for some NEW ISSUE to crop up, to be defined. Each state has it's own laws, unless, superseded by Federal law. Witness Alaska trying make pot legal AGAIN. They only gave that up because of federal money. Where in the Constitution do you see any articles against this 'evil' weed?
The Feds will fight it, but, there is nothing they can do to stop it, except keep control of the purse strings, or, pass a federal law, or God help us, a Constitutional amendment...
Notice Massachusetts, and their damnable Gay Marriage interpretation. (Marriage is a gift from God, CODIFIED into mans LAW.) Now, the rest of the states are scrambling to figure out what to do. There is something in the Constitution about 'Fair faith and credit' that will, I'm told, force the other states to recognize marriages from Mass, no matter what.
This is the Bible belt down here. People have a hard time with this issue down here.
Also, I can walk around here, anywhere, with a pistol strapped to my hip. Try that in New York! (I actually did this for a year or so. After my business had a robbery, the cops told me to do that! To scare the bad guys, that, 'word would get around'...they were right!)
That's why the Feds end up acting as 'referee' between the states. They are STATES, not 'provinces'...
So there ARE States rights, but, nowadays you're right, it's about new issues, unthought of by the framers. (And the ubiquitous media 'spin'.)

DMLambert
ex-SP4 '72-'75

[bagpiper]

Beatrice,
States Rights, yup...WHAT States Rights....

But, it is ALWAYS lurking there in the background, waiting for some NEW ISSUE to crop up, to be defined. Each state has it's own laws, unless, superseded by Federal law. Witness Alaska trying make pot legal AGAIN. They only gave that up because of federal money. Where in the Constitution do you see any articles against this 'evil' weed?
The Feds will fight it, but, there is nothing they can do to stop it, except keep control of the purse strings, or, pass a federal law, or God help us, a Constitutional amendment...
Notice Massachusetts, and their damnable Gay Marriage interpretation. (Marriage is a gift from God, CODIFIED into mans LAW.) Now, the rest of the states are scrambling to figure out what to do. There is something in the Constitution about 'Fair faith and credit' that will, I'm told, force the other states to recognize marriages from Mass, no matter what.
This is the Bible belt down here. People have a hard time with this issue down here.
Also, I can walk around here, anywhere, with a pistol strapped to my hip. Try that in New York! (I actually did this for a year or so. After my business had a robbery, the cops told me to do that! To scare the bad guys, that, 'word would get around'...they were right!)
That's why the Feds end up acting as 'referee' between the states. They are STATES, not 'provinces'...
So there ARE States rights, but, nowadays you're right, it's about new issues, unthought of by the framers. (And the ubiquitous media 'spin'.)

DMLambert
ex-SP4 '72-'75

[Beatrice1000]

[Beatrice1000]