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P. Aaron
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 322
Location: the grassy knoll
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 Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Wing Wiper wrote: | Everything Kerry threw over the fence, I can buy from home over the Internet. (Thanks for changing your post from MOE to MOH and making me look like an idiot, by the way  ) |
Remember that a COMMIE LIB like Kerry isn't going to throw his own medals (or ribbons) away. Being the COMMIE LIB he is, he borrowed someone else's ribbons, and threw those away! Similar to all the COMMIE LIBS voting on legislation to spend other people's money on things they would never spend their own money on.
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AF366TFW
Ensign
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 69
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Some one asked about the MOH. It is a violation of Federal Law to buy, sell or trade the MOH. There is an FBI agent in N.J. that keeps any eye on that sort of thing. He has busted more than one person on eBay for trafficking in them.
So far as I know, you can have a display of all the other medals/ribbons. The MOH is a different animal.
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drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| BB Stacker wrote: | Ribbons and medals are interchangeable to this extent. Both represent an award. The thing that matters is the award, which is the acknowledgement of some type of meritorious service. This could be a group award or an individual award.
A medal is a physical representation of the award. And as medals tend to be somewhat bulky to wear on one's chest, (especially when there is a lot of them to wear), another smaller version of the award is the ribbon which represents both the medal and the award.
So I see them as interchangeable. If one throws ones ribbons over the fence, one is throwing away the awards they represent, which is the only thing that really matters. |
So then no matter whether you threw the medals or the ribbons, you threw away the award, and have no right to brag about having or displaying them had you done so, or even had you claimed to do so.
Is this an accurate assertion? |
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AF366TFW
Ensign
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 69
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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you got it right DrJohn. If you "gave them back" as Kerry said he did, then he sure should NOT be claiming them now. It was the AWARD that he threw away.
In doing so, he shamed himself and spit on all the honorable men and women that wore those awards before and after him.
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. John
What are you driving at?
I still don't consider them interchangeable at all.
When a military person says medals, he means MEDALS.
When he says ribbons, he means ribbons.
That was just an excuse Kerry used in an effort to have it both ways, as usual.
He said he threw away his medals. When caught in that lie he says they are interchangeable.
Typical Kerry.
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"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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Nomorelies
Vice Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 977
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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People buy and sell medals all the time on ebay. I doubt they claim they earned them. There are collectors however under the category "Militaria."
I found some old WWI medals in an estate sale and the collectors went wild. These collectors, however, are sincerely interested in the history of the Wars and battles and build large collections over a lifetime.
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RMalloy
PO3
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Wing Wiper wrote:
"Everything Kerry threw over the fence, I can buy from home over the Internet."
I haven't found the site where you buy honor, courage, or veracity. |
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drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| carpro wrote: | Dr. John
What are you driving at?
I still don't consider them interchangeable at all.
When a military person says medals, he means MEDALS.
When he says ribbons, he means ribbons.
That was just an excuse Kerry used in an effort to have it both ways, as usual.
He said he threw away his medals. When caught in that lie he says they are interchangeable.
Typical Kerry. |
I know that and you know that. He is a duplicitous liar.
But I think I can make people, who may not grasp the sigificance of medals or the confusion of the distinction, understand that HE THREW HIS AWARDS AWAY.
He threw them away, and he said it more than once. He should NOT be displaying them.
He should not have them in his possession.
That he still does is a crime.
They represent something the ownership of which he has forfeited.
That is simple for everyone to understand. |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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I'll go for that.
He dishonored his awards and has no right to claim them back. 
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"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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BB Stacker
Seaman
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 150
Location: Eustis Fl
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| carpro wrote: | Dr. John
What are you driving at?
I still don't consider them interchangeable at all.
When a military person says medals, he means MEDALS.
When he says ribbons, he means ribbons.
That was just an excuse Kerry used in an effort to have it both ways, as usual.
He said he threw away his medals. When caught in that lie he says they are interchangeable.
Typical Kerry. |
There are medals and there are ribbons that are both physical representations of the award or citation they represent. Anyone can buy medals and ribbons as has been stated in this thread. But they are meaningless dimestore hardware without the citation that discribes the service that the recipient accomplished. A legitimate award (of a higher nature such as a Purple Heart, Bronze Star or Silver Star) will always be accompanied by a citation describing the service rendered. Throwing the medals or ribbons away (the physical manifestation of the award) is the outward manifestation of throwing away the award that they both represent.
You cannot throw away either to make a statement of protest without relinquishing the award, or it is an empty protest.
Now in the case of Kerry, empty is what he is. So it is not supprising that he wants to still be able to claim he holds these awards. Which is it? Were you lying then when you threw them over the fence, or or you lying now when you still claim to hold them? |
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EODARMY
Seaman
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:49 pm Post subject: IT IS ILLEGAL TO SELL A CONGRESSIONAL MEDAL of HONOR |
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In 1923 Legislation was enacted that prohibits the unauthorized manufacturing of US medals awarded by
the Military. Title 18 section 704 of the US Codes which can be viewed online at
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/704.html was adopted into law to protect the integrity of military medals. IT
IS ILLEGAL TO SELL A CONGRESSIONAL MEDAL of HONOR. This is also one law that is enforced and is
punishable by incarceration and fine. |
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EODARMY
Seaman
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:03 pm Post subject: medals---ribbons |
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The following web may help you: http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/navyrib.shtml
I believe that every medal will have a corresponding ribbon which can be worn on many uniforms. However there are many ribbons for which there are no medals associated, such the newest ribbons to be awarded soon for the War on Terrorism. Many badges have no ribbon associated such as a parachute badge. When Kerry says he threw away his medals such as his Silver Star, it was the medal. Now he could have additionally thrown the ribbon that goes with it. And he could have thrown ribbons with no corresponding medal as well. Hope this helps. |
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kurtsprincess
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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From a ordinary citizen's perspective.........it doesn't matter whether he threw medals, or ribbons over the fence.....he was repudiating his military service, his country and everything it stood for. He threw away the right to ever use those awards, medals or ribbons to bolster his reputation.... ....he's a fraud and should not be allowed to wear/display any medals or ribbons.
And.....I don't care whether he was under fire or not, I don't care if he was heroic in Vietnam or not..........he made a choice....a very public choice and now he wants us to write it off as youthful exhuberance.
Nope, no way, not gonna do it! I was disgusted with his actions in 1971 and I'm still disgusted with him.
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A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
Dwight D. Eisenhower |
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USWORHOCKEY
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 94
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Guys, medals or ribbons is really not the point. Its what they stand for and how he disgraces earned awards. Any accomidation I have isn't s**t without the respect of having everyone feel I'm worthy, I'm humbled.
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MJB
LCDR
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 425
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| BB Stacker wrote: | | carpro wrote: | Dr. John
What are you driving at?
I still don't consider them interchangeable at all.
When a military person says medals, he means MEDALS.
When he says ribbons, he means ribbons.
That was just an excuse Kerry used in an effort to have it both ways, as usual.
He said he threw away his medals. When caught in that lie he says they are interchangeable.
Typical Kerry. |
There are medals and there are ribbons that are both physical representations of the award or citation they represent. Anyone can buy medals and ribbons as has been stated in this thread. But they are meaningless dimestore hardware without the citation that discribes the service that the recipient accomplished. A legitimate award (of a higher nature such as a Purple Heart, Bronze Star or Silver Star) will always be accompanied by a citation describing the service rendered. Throwing the medals or ribbons away (the physical manifestation of the award) is the outward manifestation of throwing away the award that they both represent.
You cannot throw away either to make a statement of protest without relinquishing the award, or it is an empty protest.
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All excellent points in this thread - but don't be impatient with the civilians out there. It is confusing to some to hear on one hand that they are interchangeable...and then to hear that they're not. Just another thing that needs explaining - and patience.
Thanks drjohn for trying to explain this to nonmilitary folks out there. There's some excellent info in this thread.
You need a citation to authorize the wear of a medal and accompanying ribbon.
A medal is usually kept in a display case or the award case it's presented in.
A ribbon accompanies a medal - it is worn on your "everyday" uniform if you are the ribbon-wearing type. When I served in the Air Force typically officers didn't wear their ribbons on a daily basis, and the enlisted folks did.
Some ribbons are authorized for wear, that do not represent a medal (often it's to distinguish that you served during a particular point in time, or your organization won a unit commendation of some type).
It's absolutely true that ribbons are available in the local post or base exchange - but you don't buy them and wear them if you're not *authorized* the award.
Hope this helps a bit.
MJB |
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