SwiftVets.com

[llano]

I just looked at the February report and it is "MTSP 28/1/194.5.5.4/2"

Compared to "your", Market Time Spot Report 13/1/TE 194.5.4.4/1

Since I'm not intelligent enough to read these I'll just post them.
_________________
Home in Lubbock Texas, home of the Vietnam Project at Texas Tech University. A place visited frequently by Navy Chief.

[hanna]

Initials?

[NavyChief]

[NavyChief]

I'll give you a hint. Someone else has already figured this one out.

CTE = Commander Task Element (dude in charge of a group of boats on a mission)

TE = Task Element (one of the dudes in a group of boats on a mission)

- Chief

[cipher]

Geeze, chief. The only thing missing that I can see in that line is a real nit-pick and that's the "(C)" for CONFIDENTIAL, and "TE" instead of "CTE"....

What am I not seeing?
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92

[FredRum]

deleted to increase readability of thread

[swiftyvetfan4ever]

Is it suppose to start out with CTE?[/u]

[cipher]

Wait. Kerry was NOT the OTC on that op, was he?

So it HAD to be someone OTHER than the CTE that wrote it.... ergo, Kerry.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92

[Beldar]

Chief, I have zero experience in tracking through these documents or making sense of them. I'd love to publicize (with attribution) your discovery on my blog, but I need you to break it down into small digestible bites with links (when you're ready, of course). Email or message me when you get there, please?

[cipher]

He's teasing us, beldar. I can't believe it was that obvious. Looking for something that WASN'T there that should have been is a lot harder than looking for something that IS there that SHOULDN'T be.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92

[NavyChief]

This report was written by TE 194.5.4.4/1

Thurlow was the OTC for this mission, he should have written the after action report but he didn't. Otherwise, this report would say, CTE 194.5.4.4/1

Another OINC wrote the report...

{edited - oops. wrong ship}
Now, this report was released from the USCGC SPENCER(WHEC-36) as evidenced by the routing indicator at the top of the message RUMFSBB. it also used the RUMFSAA net.

I was [right] about my previous analysis that this meant the Coast Guard Cutter SPENCER. I now have a partial Operation Order for the SEALORDS missions and it states that the Coast Guard Cutter was responsible for Medical, Communications relay, and was to report to CDR Lonsdale the status of the PCFs while on patrol in the rivers. The Cutter had the TTY Comms Guard for CTE 194.5.4.4.

CTE 194.5.4.4 was to use callsign "DIPSY DOODLE" while on patrol and the TE 194.5.4.4 was to use the callsign "SEPTEMBER SONG".

The command structure was set out on 1 Jan 69 for LCDR Elliott, Commanding Officer of Coastal Division 11 - CTU 115.4.7 to create a new task element for SEALORDS. Originally, this was 3 PCFs from his division and they were to be called TE 194.5.4.4. This obviously wasn't enough boats so they added more on certain missions. This new task element would have an Officer-in-Tactical Control of the mission. Normally this was the senior OINC of the PCFs. Occasionally, they would have higher ranking officers go out with them. The OTC was the CTE in this structure. When you see CTE on the reports, you know the OTC is writing the report or has dictated for it to be written, but is taking responsibility for the report's contents. However, the 13 Mar 69 report was not written by the OTC/CTE; the TE 194.5.4.4/1 wrote the report.

{edited -- this is wrong}
Thurlow spent the night on the LST. We know from Kerry's medical letter from his doctor that Kerry was treated on the SPENCER at 1900 that night. This was an hour after the mission ended. We also know that the author didn't release this message until the disposition of the wounded in the report had been made and they were medevac'd to unknown location. The LST could handle two Helo's at the same time and that is where the wounded were medevac'd from. Now note the time that all the wounded reports went out, except Kerry's from the SPENCER (routing indicator RHMCSAA). They all went out within five minutes of each other in the 2300 hour. Kerry's report went out 20 minutes later. Also, remember that his after action report did not say that a mine exploded close aboard Kerry's boat and caused shrapnel in his butt. The first time this was mentioned was in Kerry's casualty report filed the next day at An Thoi. The next time the story is told of a second mine is in Sandusky's recommendation for Kerry's Bronze Star. But, Sandusky fails to mention that the second mine wounded Kerry with shrapnel in the butt -- only the right arm.

- Chief

[cipher]

[FredRum]

deleted to decrease clutter in the thread

[Tom Poole]

They sound pretty close to me but Chief, Cipher and FredRum, my eyeballs are hangin' out again. The conclusion seems clear and that proves the lie (another one).
_________________
'58 Airedale HMR(L)-261 VMO-2

[cipher]

The difference is that in your quoted example, the ALLEGATION is made that Kerry sent the report.

What the chief has established is the PROOF it was Kerry that sent it.

Kerry is the SOURCE of the "Official Navy Record" for his own actions. So the argument that Kerry is right because the Official Records are right is based on the premise that Kerry was right.

He wrote his own history, and it is cited as proof he's right. A recursive argument.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92