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Aristotle The Hun
PO1
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 488
Location: Naples FL
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 Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Doc!
My daughter lives in San Francisco so I sent her the link, just to provoke. There may be conservatives in S.F. but she isn't one of them.
I'm getting lots of feed back about "Acorns" and many people are sharing it with others.
Sam
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| d19thdoc wrote: | Stevie,
To the extent that I understand your question . . .
No. Deferments refer to deferments from the draft, which is the province of local draft boards. Those records are probably kept, but I don't know where off hand.
Kerry had to have gotten some deferement(s) while at college, I would think. I do believe this was written about during the campaign - also don't recall where. |
Our own Bob Chamberlain obtained Kerrys selective service records from NARA, see this thread ...
Deferments - Need a couple of power-lifters, here!
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:35 am Post subject: |
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rather offensive editorial from the Globe.
Are these people for real.. ..do they believe what they write?
BostonGlobe_Editorial
emphasis mine
| Quote: |
GLOBE EDITORIAL
Kerry's Vietnam
June 10, 2005
DESPITE THE continuing gripes of his critics, records released this week show that Senator John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. The documents should put to rest claims that Kerry misrepresented his military record in the presidential race. But Kerry's failure to respond to the smear campaign launched against him last summer lent credibility to its real objective: to impugn his equally honorable opposition to the war.
John O'Neill, a Houston lawyer and Kerry's adversary on the war since 1971, acknowledged as much in a telephone interview Wednesday. ''We produced seven commercials," he said of his anti-Kerry group, now called Swift Vets and POWs for Truth. ''Only one dealt with Vietnam activities." O'Neill was incensed by Kerry's memorable testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971, in which the young veteran, clad in a combat shirt, criticized the war.
Kerry has said that he may have used a poor choice of words when he cited other veterans' reports of atrocities as being ''in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan." But his basic analysis was sound: Vietnamese and Americans were dying needlessly because the war was a mistake, and US policymakers allowed it to continue even though they were aware that their strategy for victory was failing.
The Swift Boat ads made much of the plight of US pilots captured by the North Vietnamese -- and most were horribly treated by their captors. But these men languished in prison for years in part because the US government failed to follow Kerry's advice to end an unwinnable war.
Still, the ads were successful because Kerry failed to fully rebut them. He needed to release those records during the campaign, when it counted. They would have underscored that there was no inconsistency between serving courageously in the war and drawing on that experience to argue that Americans and Vietnamese should no longer be put at risk.
Perhaps Kerry didn't adequately grasp the ambivalence many Americans still feel about the war, just as many did in the 1960s. George W. Bush, for instance, supported it at Yale, but after graduation he chose reserve duty that kept him out of combat.
O'Neill said he didn't think the election should have hinged on either candidate's war record, and he's right that Bush's choice was typical of many in his generation. It is Kerry's choice that was atypical.
The records Kerry allowed to be released this week show that his commanders in Vietnam called him ''one of the finest young officers with whom I have served," and ''the acknowledged leader of his peer group. " His stand against the war only confirmed these qualities. |
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SBD
Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:53 am Post subject: |
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I think if I ever had to go to Boston, I would get sick to my stomach. These people must have all been drinking for so long with their accomplished swimmer Senator Kennedy that their brains have turned into Scotch on the Rocks.
SBD |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| Frankly, I'm glad they wrote it. It lays to rest any semblance of unbiased objectivity they might have had for ANYONE with a functioning brain. |
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manelly
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 294
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The records Kerry allowed to be released this week show that his commanders in Vietnam called him ''one of the finest young officers with whom I have served," and ''the acknowledged leader of his peer group. " His stand against the war only confirmed these qualities. |
Ahaa! 
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Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day.
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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kate said
| Quote: | rather offensive editorial from the Globe.
Are these people for real.. ..do they believe what they write? |
VERY OFFENSIVE !!
I think this article had to have been written by Kerry himself!!
Every paragraph is a LIE except two. Those are the two quoting John O'Neill.
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“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 570
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-kerry8jun08,0,3048402.story?coll=la-home-nation
~snip~
"Kerry said in a statement Tuesday that he had provided "unprecedented access" to his military and medical records during the campaign "and now months after it ended." In releasing the file, he said, "the facts speak for themselves and as these records prove, once again the right wing is wrong."
But Kerry's reluctance to provide easy access to records that buttressed his war resume remains one of the more puzzling aspects of his campaign strategy."
~snip~
In a phone interview from Houston, O'Neill said the Swift boat group was pressing for information about three unresolved controversies from the 2004 race: Kerry's disputed contention that his Swift boat had entered Cambodian waters about December 1968; wording discrepancies among several versions of Kerry's medal commendations; and a perceived lag between Kerry's discharge from the Navy in 1970 and a later departure date in 1978.
"If he made a true universal release of his records and not through selective journalists, maybe we could get to the records that would answer some of these questions," O'Neill said. "If there were orders, for example, that sent him to Cambodia, they should be in his file."
~snip~
"A less flattering portrait of Kerry shows up in other documents in the file. Correspondence from Navy officials reveals that soon after leaving Vietnam, Kerry took pains to make sure that all his wartime commendations were documented in his military file.
"Subject officer advised … that he has never received the citation or decoration for the Silver Star medal," a Navy personnel officer wrote in a file notation in December 1969 — nine months after Kerry had returned from Vietnam." |
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manelly
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 294
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Quote from
LA Times
| Quote: | | "Subject officer advised … that he has never received the citation or decoration for the Silver Star medal," a Navy personnel officer wrote in a file notation in December 1969 — nine months after Kerry had returned from Vietnam." |
From FrontPage Mag: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14774
| Quote: | Here’s where it gets puzzling. Lieutenant John Kerry’s award for the Silver Star has—not one citation, but three—an unheard of number for a single award.
Understandably, as we shall see, only Kerry’s most recent citation—nearly two decades older than the first and signed by a Secretary of the Navy who was years away from that office when Lieutenant Kerry, now Senator Kerry, originally obtained the award—appears on his website. (Not one of the three citations, incidentally, refer to the combat “V” that appears on Kerry’s website’s DD 214.)
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The FP article includes a run down of the discrepencies in all 3 silver star citations all 3 are undated.
I was looking at that picture (would post it but i don't know how) of Kerry and his crew after this incident , where they are all sporting their Medals (except for David Alston of course) is one of the medals Kerry is wearing his Silver Star?
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Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day.
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becca1223
PO3
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 293
Location: Colonial Heights, VA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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I wish I was loaded, so I could buy TV commercial airtime. 
Operation SF-180 - - The mask that covers sKerry!! |
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x0311
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 1
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Understandably, as we shall see, only Kerry’s most recent citation—nearly two decades older than the first and signed by a Secretary of the Navy who was years away from that office when Lieutenant Kerry, now Senator Kerry, originally obtained the award—appears on his website. (Not one of the three citations, incidentally, refer to the combat “V” that appears on Kerry’s website’s DD 214.) |
Greetings all. I'm brand new here. I was prompted to post because of the reference to the combat V device highlighted in the above quote. That's not for his Silver Star award, is it? My impression was that, unlike a Bronze Star, a Silver Star is awarded only for valor and, therefore, a combat "V" would not be attached since it would be redundant, kind of like a combat "V" on a Medal of Honor. Am I wrong? |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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Uisguex Jack
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 613
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Kate wrote:
| Quote: | | Are these people for real.. ..do they believe what they write? |
That is a offensive article and one wonders where all they're headed with this stuff.
If the continued lieing did'nt make me sick to my stomach this would be comical. |
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manelly
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 294
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| shawa wrote: |
VERY OFFENSIVE !!
I think this article had to have been written by Kerry himself!!
Every paragraph is a LIE except two. Those are the two quoting John O'Neill. |
You betcha they quoted John O'Niell accurately 
'cuz they know O'Neill will sue they're @$$
...and another thing,
Globe editorial :
| Quote: | | DESPITE THE continuing gripes of his critics, records released this week show that Senator John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. |
But THATS not REALLY what we asked SF180 to be signed for is it Mr. Editorial?
We know that by Nov. 6, 1971 Kerry was a "Former Lieutenant" as he was intoduced by Debbie Groebli on her show. We also know that in the same interview Kerry said his "Dishonorable Discharge" had NEVER been questioned.
Those are the Documents we are looking for Mr. Editorial and THOSE are the documents the Boston Globe, Kerry and the L.A Times continualy dodge and refuse to ask for.
I also take issue with this statement from the Globe Editorial:
| Quote: | George W. Bush, for instance, supported it at Yale, but after graduation he chose reserve duty that kept him out of combat.
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Would someone please inform the Boston Globe that the "R" in USNR means "Reserves".
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Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day.
- Thomas Jefferson |
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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d19thdoc and kate,
thanks, I have a copy of the deferment docs. was hoping they SHOULD be in his record and since they didn't GET RELEASED, we''d know for sure he is still hiding stuff (like we believe he ISN'T).
Has someone done an update on what SHOULD be in that file so we can compare it to what Kerry has released? like a comparison to O'Neill's?
I haven't read everything here yet, so if it's been answered already, thanks!
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Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged. |
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