SwiftVets.com

[Hondo]

Dane:

Afraid you're barking up the wrong tree re: your allegation of Kerry's DD 215 changing the effective date of Kerry's transfer to inactive duty. Block 11.d. of the DD214 releasing him from active duty posted on Kerry's web site clearly shows the transfer to be effective 1 Mar 1970. (This is page 2 of the DD214 document posted on Kerry's web site; page 1 is the DD214 where he transitioned from enlisted to commissioned status on completion of OCS.)


jwbarden:

There's actually a much less sinister explanation for Kerry's request for a DD215.

The DD214 releasing Kerry from active duty does not list any service stars for his Vietnam Campaign Medal, nor does it list any VIetnamese or Unit Decorations. My guess (I haven't researched it) is that the Swiftboat unit to which Kerry was assigned - or the Gridley - was authorized unit decorations and/or Vietnamese decorations and that Kerry was technically entitled to campaign participation credit for 4 Vietnam campaigns. These were not reflected on his "exit" DD214, and indeed some could have been formally authorized after Kerry left active duty (hell, the Army is still futzing around with unit decorations for the most recent Iraq war, and has also recently amedned rosters of campaign credit for the FIRST Gulf War). It's my guess that Kerry decided in 2001 that he might want to run for President and started then "burnishing" his records by requesting a DD215 to reflect all those Unit and Foreign citations he was authorized but that didn't appear on his original DD214.

Now, that doesn't explain why he didn't request to have the "Combat V" error regarding his Silver Star on his DD214 corrected. Seems to me that if he (or his staff) researched the issue of foreign and unit decorations well enough to determine he was authorized a bunch, they would have found that error as well. I'd love an explanation as to why correction of that "whopper" wasn't requested.

Don't get me wrong; I do not support and will not vote for Kerry. However, false criticism does nothing but give Kerry's supporters ammo for discrediting his critics.

[jwbarden]

Hondo: You are correct. The source of my confusion is this:

Kerry's RELACDU orders from COMSTSLANT Brooklyn, NY dated 2JAN70 detach him at 1600 that date with one day travel/proceed to his HOR and relaese him from active duty at 2400 3JAN70. The days of service of all kinds on his DD-214 add up to the date of this RELACDU. The days from 3JAN70 to 1MAR70 (56 days) are unaccounted for on the DD-214. Nothing sinister about this, it's just irregular, and I don't attach any importance to it.

Upon rereading the DD-215, it does NOT change the separation date of the original DD-214. The awards listed appear to be those that should have been listed on the original document.

I stand by my statement that Kerry's assignment to COMSTSLANT was the result of irregular detailing influenced by some kind of super social connection. I want to see Kerry's dream sheet from his last period of sea duty and I want to know how he landed in the aide billet within days of his unexpected departure from RVN.

[Hondo]

jwbarden:

There is in fact a potential legit explaintion for that 56 day deviation.

As I figure it from his DD214s, Kerry was on AD for a total of somewhat over 3 yrs 4 mo. During that period he would have accrued roughly 100 days leave (not sure how the Vietnam-era Navy handled leave accrual during partial months of service).

1 year 7 months of his AD were foreign/sea service, during which he presumably didn't have much opportunity to take leave. Another roughly 4 months were in OCS. Probably another chunk was spent in other formal schooling.

That didn't leave him much time to take his accrued leave. Further, I believe even during Vietnam he could have carried any leave in excess of 60 days across FY boundaries if he was deployed at sea or to a Combat zone at the end of the FY (I believe current policy is to do allow this, at least for Combat zone service). If he only took 10 days or so of leave during the rest of his time on AD, he could have had a large chunk of accrued leave saved.

Therefore, when he left AD he may have simply had too much leave to take as terminal leave between issue of the orders releasing him from AD and their effective date. Some leave would perforce have been paid; the rest would have been taken as terminal leave. Kerry's "exit" DD214 shows 31 days paid leave.

Even in peacetime, it's possible to have more than 60 days leave available for terminal leave. The first time I left AD I took 69 days terminal leave.

It's also possible chicanery was involved. We'd have to see either his complete leave or pay records (pay records would show leave balances, I think) to sort this out. I frankly doubt we'll ever see either made public.

As for his assignment: I think it's reasonably likely this was the result of political influence. His family was reputedly rather well connected. Moreover, there is ample precident: JFK during World War II (his initial assignment was to DC and was "cushy"; reputedly, what got him sent to the Pacific was blabbing confidential info to a foreign-national lover) and for Teddy after he got thrown out of Harvard for cheating (posted to embassy duty in Paris - a true "penalty tour").

[Dane]

I must admit that I have never seen transfers orders to the Inactive Reserve. But I saw my own retirement orders and they made a distinction between leave and the effective date of retirement. It seems to me that if Kerry had accrued leave, the orders would have mentioned that and would have shown the effective date of transfer as being March. Something just doesn´t smell correct to me. I wonder what he did during the first two months after transfer to the Inactive Reserve.

Dane

[Herb]

[NavyChief]

[jwbarden]

Hondo:

Terminal leave won't cut it in explaining the unaccounted for 56 days.

You can't be on leave unless you are on active duty.

Kerry was released from active duty effective 2400 3JAN70, following one day of travel/proceed. At the time of his RELACDU orders, he had 31 days on the books. In such cases, the servicemember usually has the option of remaining on active duty for the period of terminal leave (in which case he draws full pay, allowances, and benefirts for the leave period) or else cashing out the accrued leave, in this case 31 days X daily base pay. Kerry clearly took the latter option. The 56 days remain unaccounted for, not that it matters to me. I think the YN typing up the separation papers just didn't know what he was doing.

I guess we could find out for sure by Kerry's releasing his pay records.

[hmminCanada]

Yesterday there was a post at Free Republic called The Best Evidence, from someone called Andrew C. This person was taking a very close look at the fitness reports and had noticed some anomalies. The most outstanding of them was a side by side comparison of Elliott's signature. The signature of the last one, the one I think that was being discussed above is clearly different than the other two signed by Elliott. If you enlarge the screen you will see that the G in the last one has no loop around the bottom to join it on , the "M" is similar but looks too tight compared to the other two, the "E" is similar to the first but kind of cramped looking and the double "t" at the end is significantly different. In the other signature's there is a loop from the bottom of the last "t" that doubles back over the top and bends around to cross both but in the last signature both "t's" as just crossed with a single line. Go check it out and see what you think. Show it to Elliott and see what he thinks.

[Herb]

[jwbarden]

Or maybe CAPT Elliot, who is engaged in this discussion, could tell you if that were his signature.

[sevry]

[jwbarden]

The first DD-214 was issued when Kerry was released from his enlistment contract at the end of NAVOCS to accept a commision as Ensign in the Naval Reserve. The second DD-214 was issued at the end of his active commissioned service.

[sevry]

[jwbarden]

My first DD-214, a DD FORM 214N, was published 1NOV72 and issued to me (filled out) on 13JUL79, recording my separation from USNR enlisted and accepting a commission as Ensign, USNR. The form's stock number is 0102-LF-002-0202.

Subsequent DD-214's were issued to me on form DD-214 Oscar.

I can't read the publication date on Kerry's DD-214N, but it looks like 1968. Issuance of DD-214N in 2000 appears to be impossible.

[sevry]