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Rdtf
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Location: BUSHville
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 Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| This story is very intriguing. But, I wonder who is going to be thrown under the bus for this. No matter who said it, or what the real motive was, someone is going to take the fall. That last minute call that Cooper got is very dramatic and suspect to me. I don't think it's the actual truth. Let's hope not, but the media may win after all. |
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Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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http://polisat.com/
Scroll down to:
July 6, 2005
Get Smart Part Deux |
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shawa
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Great link, Tanya!!
Did no one in the enquiring media bother to check Wilson's own website?
No! Wilson wasn't their target, he was their hero.
It now seems that they STILL want it to be Rove. Note this article today in the WaPo:
| Quote: | Questions Remain on the Leaker and the Law
Rove's Talks With Time Writer May Be a Focus
By Dan Balz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, July 8, 2005; A02
~SNIP~
Now, a fast-moving series of decisions over the past week involving Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper have brought a renewed public focus on what role White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove may have played in disclosing the name of CIA operative Valerie Plame.
A White House spokesman long ago asserted that Rove was "not involved" in disclosing Plame's identity. Rove, who has testified before a grand jury investigating the case, likewise has maintained that he did not break the law, saying in a television interview, "I didn't know her name, and I didn't leak her name."
But Fitzgerald still appears to want more answers about Rove's role. The prosecutor is apparently focused on Rove's conversations with Cooper.
The debate two summers ago over why the United States went to war engaged some of the most senior officials in the government and included an incendiary accusation by former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, who had challenged the administration over claims that Iraq was seeking nuclear material in Africa. Wilson based his claim on information gathered on a CIA-sponsored trip to Niger.
At the height of the fury over Wilson's charges, in a column published July 14, 2003, Robert D. Novak wrote that Wilson was married to Plame, and cited two senior administration officials saying she was behind the decision to send her husband on the trip. The outcry over the revelation eventually forced the administration to turn to Fitzgerald to investigate, with Bush saying he was eager to get to the bottom of the case. The president and a number of top administration officials have since been called to testify.
After Time turned over its documents late last week, Newsweek reported that e-mail records showed that Rove was one of Cooper's sources on Plame and Wilson. That article led Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin, to say in an interview last weekend that his client had spoken to Cooper around the time Novak's column appeared in July 2003. But he added that Rove had testified fully in the case and had been assured by Fitzgerald that he is not a target in the investigation.
More evidence points to Rove as the source Cooper was seeking to protect -- although what information was provided is not clear. Rove and Cooper spoke once before the Novak column was available, but the interview did not involve the Iraq controversy, according to a person close to the investigation who declined to be identified to be able to share more details about the case.
Cooper on Wednesday agreed to testify in the case, reversing his long-standing refusal after saying that he had been released from his pledge of confidentiality just hours before he expected to be sent to jail for contempt of court. In an interview with The Washington Post on Wednesday, Luskin denied that Cooper had received a call from Rove releasing him from his confidentiality pledge. Yesterday, however, Luskin declined to comment on a New York Times report that the release came as a result of negotiations involving Rove's and Cooper's attorneys, nor would he speculate that Cooper was released from his pledge in some other fashion than a direct conversation with Rove. "I'm not going to comment any further," Luskin said.
The admission that Rove had spoken to Cooper appeared at odds with previous White House statements. In retrospect, however, these statements -- which some interpreted as emphatic denials -- were in fact carefully worded.
On Oct. 10, 2003, White House press secretary Scott McClellan was asked whether Rove; Vice President Cheney's chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby; or National Security Council official Elliott Abrams had told any reporter that Plame was a covert CIA agent.
"I spoke with those individuals, as I pointed out, and those individuals assured me they were not involved in this," McClellan said. "And that's where it stands." Reporters pressed McClellan to clarify that statement but he held to the words in his first answer until one reporter asked, "They were not involved in what?" To which he replied, "The leaking of classified information."
That left open the other question that comes into play in this episode, which is the degree to which White House officials were engaged two summers ago in a vigorous effort to discredit Wilson's accusations by discrediting Wilson himself. That in itself may not be a crime, nor would such tactics be unique to the Bush White House,...... |
Continued at WASHINGTON POST
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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Me#1You#10
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Joined: 06 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Dan Balz wrote: | | That left open the other question that comes into play in this episode, which is the degree to which White House officials were engaged two summers ago in a vigorous effort to discredit Wilson's accusations by discrediting Wilson himself. That in itself may not be a crime, nor would such tactics be unique to the Bush White House,...... |
Egad! You mean the White House was engaged in (gulp) POLITICS!!!!!! 
OH THE HUMANITY!!!  |
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Rdtf
CNO
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Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't you find this odd? Neither of these journalists (or their attorneys) could use this (wilson's own website) to keep them out of jail? I don't know, smells fishy. |
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Me#1You#10 said
| Quote: | Egad! You mean the White House was engaged in (gulp) POLITICS!!!!!!
OH THE HUMANITY!!! |
LOL!!
Like every WH doesn't play hardball against critics.
I seem to recall a certain Sidney (Sid Vicious) Blumenthal in the Clintoon administration!!
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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shawa
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:54 am Post subject: |
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8525978/site/newsweek/
| Quote: | Matt Cooper's Source
What Karl Rove told Time magazine's reporter
By Michael Isikoff
Newsweek
July 18 issue - It was 11:07 on a Friday morning, July 11, 2003, and Time magazine correspondent Matt Cooper was tapping out an e-mail to his bureau chief, Michael Duffy. "Subject: Rove/P&C," (for personal and confidential), Cooper began. "Spoke to Rove on double super secret background for about two mins before he went on vacation..." Cooper proceeded to spell out some guidance on a story that was beginning to roil Washington. He finished, "please don't source this to rove or even WH [White House]" and suggested another reporter check with the CIA.
Last week, after Time turned over that e-mail, among other notes and e-mails, Cooper agreed to testify before a grand jury in the Valerie Plame case. Explaining that he had obtained last-minute "personal consent" from his source, Cooper was able to avoid a jail sentence for contempt of court. Another reporter, Judith Miller of The New York Times, refused to identify her source and chose to go to jail instead.
For two years, a federal prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, has been investigating the leak of Plame's identity as an undercover CIA agent. The leak was first reported by columnist Robert Novak on July 14, 2003. Novak apparently made some arrangement with the prosecutor, but Fitzgerald continued to press other reporters for their sources, possibly to show a pattern (to prove intent) or to make a perjury case. (It is illegal to knowingly identify an undercover CIA officer.) Rove's words on the Plame case have always been carefully chosen. "I didn't know her name. I didn't leak her name," Rove told CNN last year when asked if he had anything to do with the Plame leak. Rove has never publicly acknowledged talking to any reporter about former ambassador Joseph Wilson and his wife. But last week, his lawyer, Robert Luskin, confirmed to NEWSWEEK that Rove did—and that Rove was the secret source who, at the request of both Cooper's lawyer and the prosecutor, gave Cooper permission to testify.
The controversy arose when Wilson wrote an op-ed column in The New York Times saying that he had been sent by the CIA in February 2002 to investigate charges that Iraq was trying to buy uranium from the African country of Niger. Wilson said he had found no evidence to support the claim. Wilson's column was an early attack on the evidence used by the Bush administration to justify going to war in Iraq. The White House wished to discredit Wilson and his attacks. The question for the prosecutor is whether someone in the administration, in an effort to undermine Wilson's credibility, intentionally revealed the covert identity of his wife.
In a brief conversation with Rove, Cooper asked what to make of the flap over Wilson's criticisms. NEWSWEEK obtained a copy of the e-mail that Cooper sent his bureau chief after speaking to Rove. (The e-mail was authenticated by a source intimately familiar with Time's editorial handling of the Wilson story, but who has asked not to be identified because of the magazine's corporate decision not to disclose its contents.) Cooper wrote that Rove offered him a "big warning" not to "get too far out on Wilson." Rove told Cooper that Wilson's trip had not been authorized by "DCIA"—CIA Director George Tenet—or Vice President Dick Cheney. Rather, "it was, KR said, wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on wmd [weapons of mass destruction] issues who authorized the trip." Wilson's wife is Plame, then an undercover agent working as an analyst in the CIA's Directorate of Operations counterproliferation division. (Cooper later included the essence of what Rove told him in an online story.) The e-mail characterizing the conversation continues: "not only the genesis of the trip is flawed an[d] suspect but so is the report. he [Rove] implied strongly there's still plenty to implicate iraqi interest in acquiring uranium fro[m] Niger... "
Nothing in the Cooper e-mail suggests that Rove used Plame's name or knew she was a covert operative. Nonetheless, it is significant that Rove was speaking to Cooper before Novak's column appeared; in other words, before Plame's identity had been published. Fitzgerald has been looking for evidence that Rove spoke to other reporters as well. "Karl Rove has shared with Fitzgerald all the information he has about any potentially relevant contacts he has had with any reporters, including Matt Cooper," Luskin told NEWSWEEK.
A source close to Rove, who declined to be identified because he did not wish to run afoul of the prosecutor or government investigators, added that there was "absolutely no inconsistency" between Cooper's e-mail and what Rove has testified to during his three grand-jury appearances in the case. "A fair reading of the e-mail makes clear that the information conveyed was not part of an organized effort to disclose Plame's identity, but was an effort to discourage Time from publishing things that turned out to be false," the source said, referring to claims in circulation at the time that Cheney and high-level CIA officials arranged for Wilson's trip to Africa.
Fitzgerald is known as a tenacious, thorough prosecutor. He refused to comment, and it is not clear whether he is pursuing evidence that will result in indictments, or just tying up loose ends in a messy case. But the Cooper e-mail offers one new clue to the mystery of what Fitzgerald is probing—and provides a glimpse of what was unfolding at the highest levels as the administration defended a part of its case for going to war in Iraq. |
This still doesn't tell us who was Novak's source for the NAME of Valerie Plame.
So Rove talked to Cooper on July 11, for 2 minutes, but did not give the name.
Novak's column was published on Monday, July 14, but was sent out on July 11.
So it would appear that Rove talked to Cooper AFTER Novak's column was written.
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Cooper wrote that Rove offered him a "big warning" not to "get too far out on Wilson." |
sounds like Rove was warning Cooper not to trust Wilson
certainly right about that
didnt Cooper have 2 sources...so we still don't know who #2 is ?
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Me#1You#10
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Joined: 06 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| shawa wrote: |
This still doesn't tell us who was Novak's source for the NAME of Valerie Plame. |
Let me play devil's advocate. This appears to be splitting hairs and, IMHO, will be no legal refuge for Rove. The salient point is that Rove is alleged to have identified Wilson's wife as a CIA "operative?".
| Quote: | | So Rove talked to Cooper on July 11, for 2 minutes, but did not give the name. Novak's column was published on Monday, July 14, but was sent out on July 11. So it would appear that Rove talked to Cooper AFTER Novak's column was written. |
I don't follow your logic here. How do you reach that conclusion? |
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Me#1 said
| Quote: | | Let me play devil's advocate. This appears to be splitting hairs and, IMHO, will be no legal refuge for Rove. The salient point is that Rove is alleged to have identified Wilson's wife as a CIA "operative?". |
It may be splitting hairs, but I disagree that it is no legal refuge for Rove.
It would be an indictable offense to "knowingly identify an "undercover CIA agent". Rove did not do that.
Rove neither divulged Plame's 'name' nor the fact that she was an 'operative', only that it was Wilson's wife who authorized Wilson to go to Niger. He has stated he did not know her name.
There is nothing in Cooper's emails that indicts Rove.
The writer of this article is making a point of intimating that Cooper could not have gotten Plame's identity from Novak's column because it was not 'published' until July 14.(therefore he must have gotten the name from Rove?) But the column was sent out to all of Novak's syndication newspapers on July 11 and therefore all those editors knew Plame's name over that weekend.
Assuming that Rove had probably said the same thing to Novak as he did to Cooper, it is likely that the next thing a reporter (Novak) would do is try to find out information about Wilson's wife. Talk to someone at the CIA (Tenet?).
It is THAT source who identified Plame.
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 570
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:07 am Post subject: |
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Sun Jul 10, 7:06 PM ET
Rove's lawyer acknowledges he was Time reporter's source
WASHINGTON (AFP) - "Top White House aide Karl Rove discussed a former US ambassador and his CIA agent wife with a Time magazine reporter, according to a report."
YahooNews
note: URL converted to hypertext |
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Rdtf
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Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:17 am Post subject: |
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shawa
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Tanya's post was from Yahoo News via AFP (Agence France Presse)
????????????????There's something disjointed about it.???????????????
| Quote: | | Miller researched the story, but didn't write it, and Cooper only mentioned it in passing. |
Was something lost in the translation?
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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shawa
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Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:06 am Post subject: |
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From Editor & Publisher
| Quote: | 'Newsweek' Says It Has First Word on What Karl Rove Told Matt Cooper
By E&P Staff
Published: July 10, 2005 5:30 PM ET
NEW YORK The first break in the case of what Karl Rove actually told Time magazine's Matt Cooper two years ago about Valerie Plame, if anything, appeared Sunday with a report in Newsweek by Michael Isikoff. The Washington Post and The New York Times also filed major stories on the Rove link on Monday.
~SNIP~
Here's the assessment of Adam Liptak of The New York Times' on Monday: "While Mr. Rove did identify the operative in a conversation with Mr. Cooper, Mr. Rove did not use her name - Valerie Plame, as she has been called in news accounts, or Valerie Wilson, as she prefers - or refer to her covert status....Lawyers involved in the negotiations did not dispute the accuracy of the document Newsweek cited.
"The information may bear on whether Mr. Rove violated the 1982 law forbidding the knowing identification of covert agents - the basis of Mr. Fitzgerald's grand jury investigation.
"'A fair reading of the e-mail as well as the context in which the conversation took place makes it clear that the information conveyed was not part of an organized effort to disclose Plame's identity,' Mr. Luskin said."
Time magazine, meanwhile, on its Web site Sunday, wrote: "And who was Cooper's source? A number of news organizations named Karl Rove, President Bush's senior political adviser. Time's editors have decided not to reveal the source at this time." |
Hmmm. Time Magazine has a second source??
From the newsweek article:
| Quote: | | July 18 issue - It was 11:07 on a Friday morning, July 11, 2003, and Time magazine correspondent Matt Cooper was tapping out an e-mail to his bureau chief, Michael Duffy. "Subject: Rove/P&C," (for personal and confidential), Cooper began. "Spoke to Rove on double super secret background for about two mins before he went on vacation..." Cooper proceeded to spell out some guidance on a story that was beginning to roil Washington. He finished, "please don't source this to rove or even WH [White House]" and suggested another reporter check with the CIA. |
Someone at the CIA revealed Plame's name and status as an 'operative'??
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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Rdtf
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Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I heard this morning on NBC that Rove mentioned to Cooper about Wilson's 'wife', but never said her name. He was mentioning how Wilson got that position. Rove didn't know much about her, her name, or that she had once been an operative. |
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