SwiftVets.com

[jwbarden]

The letter desination at the end of a form number (DD-214N, DD-214O, etc.) refer to revisions of the blank form. You get a DD-214 at the end of each period of active service; it is typed on what ever version of the form is then in effect.

[Digger]

what's missing are the records of his induction and training, the opinions of his training officers and fellow enlistees and the record of his psychological profile. They should have seen him comming.
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Hey swifty, I'm with you, Just watch you don't get "Kerry'd away in the propwash

Sgt. Maj. Seamus D.D. MacNemi R.M.C. Ret.

[Digger]

This just keeps getting deeper and deeper. If you're looking for a bloke to muck out the place for you, don't come looking for me. I'm through shovelling sh*t
_________________
Hey swifty, I'm with you, Just watch you don't get "Kerry'd away in the propwash

Sgt. Maj. Seamus D.D. MacNemi R.M.C. Ret.

[Hondo]

Folks:

Regarding the "gap" in Kerry's service (the "gap" in dates between his release from AD on his release orders and his DD214): we've collectively overlooked the obvious.

The date format used on DD214s at the time of Kerry's release from AD was Day-Month-Year, with each being a 2-digit number. The date on his DD215 specifying which DD214 was modified is 03-01-70; this translates to 3 January 1970, not 1 March 1970.

The first endorsement to Kerry's release orders is dated 2 January 1970, with one day travel time authorized. His relase from AD would thus occur on 3 January 1970 - exactly as specified in his DD214 (and the DD215 which later modified same). Simply put, there is no unexplained gap.

The date - and its format - is clear on the DD214 posted on Kerry's website. How we all missed it, I don't know.

[USAFBratToo]

In the "Kerry and His Discharge" thread on the SBVT Forum (and yes, the guys over there plumbed the depths of the double entendre) there's a post from RodgerDraftDoger which contains an analysis, parts of which are copied below. Dane, Hondo, and others also discussed the discharge question on this forum but with no resolution that I could find. So, to the list of what the Kerry camp is hiding, faking, manipulating, and ignoring can be added all records pertaining to Kerry's discharge and its status over the 30+ years he took to, apparantly, get an honorable one.
--------------------------------
I had noticed that his discharge was dated in 2001 but didn't think much about it. The enclosed raises some interesting aspects.

Unlike McCain, Bush, and Gore, while [sic] Kerry has adamantly refused to authorize the release of his military records. Most think it's because of his phony battle medals. I think the real reason is below. He was not granted an Honorable Discharge until March 2001, almost 30 years after his ostensible service term had ended! This is very much out of the ordinary, and highly suspect.

There are 5 classes of Discharge: Honorable, General, Other Than Honorable, Bad Conduct, and Dishonorable. My guess is that he was Discharged in the '70s, but not Honorably. He appealed this sometime while Clinton was doing trouser-tricks in the Oval Office. Political pressure was applied, and the Honorable Discharge was then granted.

His file is probably rife with reports of this, submissions and hearings on the appeal, reports of his "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy, along
with protests that were filed with respect to his alleged valor
under fire.

This will blow up in his face before October 15th.

A. L. "Steve" Nash, MAC Ret, UDT/SEAL SEAL Authentication [Nash's phone number is on the post in that forum]
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[Dane]

Good theory and entirely possible.

Hoo-yah!!

Dane

[USAFBratToo]

Dane - This is the contact info for the guy who did that analysis of the Kerry discharge I quoted earlier. It's not private as it is right there on the end of his long and interesting statement. I was mistaken about where to find it - The topic is in the Wintersoldier Forum. Sounds like Steve Nash and his cres of SEALS are hot on the trail of something here - as are you - give him a call, maybe, and see if the great minds can uncover a smoking gun.

A. L. "Steve" Nash, MAC Ret, UDT/SEAL SEAL Authentication
Team -Director AuthentiSEAL Phone 707 438 0120 "The only service
where all investigators are US Navy SEALs"

[Hondo]

Come on, folks. Spreading misleading info only plays into Kerry and his supporters' hands. The assertion that Kerry didn't receive an honorable discharge in 1970 is at least highly misleading, and IMO is pure BS.

Take a look at the second page of the DD214's posted on Kerry's web site. The second page is the DD214 issued on Kerry's release from active duty in Jan 1970. This document VERY CLEARLY shows a characterization of service as "Honorable" (see Item 13a). The document is publicly available at

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD214.pdf

The DD215 Kerry received in 2000 does not have a characterization of service. This is because his service during the period of time covered by the DD214 being modified was originally characterized as honorable. Had it been characterized otherwise (e.g., as general or other than honorable) and been upgraded, the change would be noted in block 5 of his DD215.

Yes, technically he was transferred to the Ready Reserve vice discharged in Jan 1970. Most people won't understand the distinction and won't care. Almost everyone considers leaving active duty and receiving a DD214 with characterization of service as "honorable" to be an honorable discharge.

We all know how adept Kerry and his supporters are at spin and at claiming their guy is being "mistreated" by the SBVFT. Don't give them ammo by making accusations easily proven false.

[Digger]

Hey guys. This whole line of questioning will become moot if that jerk gets elected to the presidency. I hope you don't mind the idea of learning Arabic and converting to Islam because that's exactly what will happen if he gets the bid. I'm already way ahead of you in that score, I speak fluent Arabic and I can tell you to go f**k yourselves in four different dialects including Kurdish.
All that aside, I'm one man who will not stand for any concession to the placationist camp when it comes to Islamic terrorism. If the war is not won
in the middle east it will be fought right here in the good old U.S.A.
That John Kerry is not fit for command is painfully obvious to me. If by some horrible chance he should be elected, I'm going to start a rebellion right here in my own back yard. I don't think it will be hard to find others willing to follow me.
_________________
Hey swifty, I'm with you, Just watch you don't get "Kerry'd away in the propwash

Sgt. Maj. Seamus D.D. MacNemi R.M.C. Ret.

[helpmycountry]

I am reading that Lt. Kerry in his records in his own files have not all been disclosed because he has lots to hide?? Stated in his records some is no real surprises but some of it is WOW.
1.Lt. Kerry attended rallies with Vietcong flag with our flag displayed desecrated defiled with comfort to the enemy.
2.He attended meetings with questionable members who were voting on assassinating Us Senators. This is supposed to being his FBI files also.
3. Lt. Kerry lied about crimes in Vietnam
4. Lt. Kerry professed to being a war criminal on national tv.
5. Lt. Kerry in his own words in his records told about meeting with he NOVA Communists in Paris violating the UCMJ and the US code and he was proud of it.

(Admin note: Unsubstantiated rumor removed. Please do not continue to post stuff like that without some completely reliable sources to back it up. Thanks.)
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Swift Boat Veterans called back to war on Kerry
Linda McREA

[Tonia]

Hope I’ve posted this in the right place. If not please move it.
I was given some information and thought maybe someone here can help me verify it. It came from a retired Colonel. He of course believes the information to be true but we can’t prove it.

On 18 Feb. 1966 John Kerry signed a 6 year enlistment contract with
the Navy (plus a 6-month extension during wartime).

On 18 Feb. 1966 John Kerry also signed an Officer Candidate contract
for 6 years -- 5 years of ACTIVE duty &ACTIVE Naval Reserves, and 1
year of inactive standby reserves (See items #4 &$5).

Because John Kerry was discharged from TOTAL ACTIVE DUTY of only 3
years and 18 days on 3 Jan. 1970, he was then required to attend 48
drills per year, and not more than 17 days active duty for training. Kerry was also subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Additionally,
Kerry, as a commissioned officer, was prohibited from making adverse
statements against his chain of command or statements against his country, especially during time of war. It is also interesting to note that Kerry did not obtain an honorable discharge until Mar. 12, 2001 even though his service obligation should have ended July 1, 1972.

Lt. John Kerry's letter of 21 Nov. 1969 asking for an early release
from active US Navy duty falsely states "My current regular period of
obligated service would be completed in December of this year."

On Jan. 3, 1970 Lt. John Kerry was transferred to the Naval Reserve
Manpower Center in Bainridge, Maryland.

Where are Kerry's Performance Records for 2 years of obligated Ready
Reserve, the 48 drills per year required and his 17 days of active
duty per year training while Kerry was in the Ready Reserves? Have these records been released?

Has anyone ever talked to Kerry's Commanding Officer at the Naval
Reserve Center where Kerry drilled?

On 1 July 1972 Lt. John Kerry was transferred to Standby Reserve -
Inactive.

On 16 February 1978 Lt. John Kerry was discharged from US Naval
Reserve.

Below are some of the crimes Lt. Kerry USNR committed as a Ready
Reservist, while he was acting as a leader of Vietnam Veterans Against
the War:

1. Lt. Kerry attended many rallies where the Vietcong flag was
displayed while our flag was desecrated, defiled, and mocked, thereby
giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

2. Lt. Kerry was involved in a meeting that voted on assassinating
members of the US Senate.

3. Lt. Kerry lied under oath against fellow soldiers before the US
Senate about crimes committed in Vietnam.

4. Lt. Kerry professed to being a war criminal on national
television, and condemned the military and the USA.

5. Lt. Kerry met with NVA and Vietcong communist leaders in Paris,
in direct violation of the UCMJ and the U.S. Constitution.
Lt. Kerry by his own words actions violated the UCMJ and the U.S.
Code while serving a s a Navy officer. Lt. Kerry stands in violation of
Article 3, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution. Lt. Kerry's 1970 meeting
with NVA Communists in Paris is in direct violation of the UCMJ's
Article 104 part 904, and U.S. Code 18 U.S.C. 953. That meeting, and Kerry's subsequent support of the communists while leading mass protests against our military in the year that followed, also place him in direct violation of our Constitution's Article 3, Section 3, which defines treason as "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy in time of warfare.

The Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, states, "No person
shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of
President and Vice-President ... having previously taken an oath . to support the Constitution of the United States, [who has] engaged in insurrection or rebellion against t he same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."

I also recall that they were giving "Less than Honorable" and "
Administrative Discharges" at that time to a lot of miscreants in lieu
of courts martial. He could NOT have stayed in the Naval Reserve
until 2001 because, at the very least, he was passed over for
promotion twice in the period 1978 - 2001! By 1978 he must have been
in the "zone" and considered for promotion for LCDR but not made it.
By regulation in the Navy he must have been considered for promotion
at least twice during that period. Passed over twice requires
discharge at that rank. A discharge in 1978 seems very plausible. An
Honorable Discharge in 2001 is very plausible as a Clinton
"pardon"!!!!

[air_vet]

Tonia,

You asked many questions - most of which have been answered in the past elsewhere on this board.

In short, camdidate Kerry was NOT assigned to a "drilling" reserve unit when he left EAD (extended active duty) - this was common - there were more people getting off EAD than there were paid drill slots.

Reserve officers would only be subject to the UCMJ when in active status.

Candidate Kerry DID have an obligation to let the Navy know if he was out of the country for more than 30 days, but there is no evidence of such extended travel.

He WAS given an honorable discharge from the Navy in '78 when he "lost" his commission (either by his own action or (more likely) action of the Navy - probably because he was passed over for a mandatory promotion to O-4).

[Hammer2]

Guys, here is something I haven't seen discussed yet.
Kerry's website contains forms for his security clearence.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Security_Clearances.pdf

These consist of:

2ea. - OPNAV Form 5521-429 (REV. 12-62)
2ea. - Partial form DD 98

Here is what is interesting:

1. Both DD 98's are missing page 2 - the form is no longer listed by DoD, but it is a questionaire for a background investigation for security clearence.

2. The first DD 98 is dated FEB 18 1966 - at the time of Kerry's enlistment.

3. The second DD98 is dated Oct 29 1965 - 4 months before Kerry's enlistment.

4. The first Form 5521-429 shows the background investigation was completed on 8 March 1966 by NCISC NAC with a final clearence of SECRET granted on 18 December 1966. This clearence was issued at the NOCS school to ENSIGN Kerry.

5. The second Form 5521-429 shows the background investigation was completed on 11 October 1967 by ONI with a final clearence of SECRET granted 11 December 1968. Ref (b.) Seems to indicate the request for clearence originated from the OPNAV Form 5521-1 by the CO, Gridley on 26 July 1967 with an ONI stamped endorsement. The final clearence was issued by Commander, Coastal Division 11 and signed by G. M. Elliott.

Now, here are the questions that these forms pose:

1. Why 2 DD 98's? Why is one dated 4 months before Kerry's enlistment and the other at the time of his enlistment? Could this indicate an aborted enlistment attempt in October, 1965?

2. The first Form 5521-429 is consistent with Kerry's enlistment in Feburary, 1966 and his SECRET clearance is issued about 10 months later.

3. The second Form 5521-429 is redundant, Kerry already has SECRET clearence. Why do it again? Did he lose his clearence? Why?

4. The time delay from when the OPNAV Form 5521-1 was done on the Gridley to when the second background check was completed on 11 October 1967 was 3 months, but the second Form 5521-429 is not issued until 11 December 1968 - 14 months later! If you assume a ONI check was completed on the Gridley since the Form 5521-1 is noted as having ONI stamped endorsement thereon, where then is the 3rd DD 98 to initiate the ONI investigation or is it replaced by the OPNAV Form 5521-1? Where is the OPNAV Form 5521-1 from the Gridley? The second Form 5521-429 is issued by Elliott on 11 December 1968, probably just after Kerry arrived after completing his training in California. Who then initiated the 3rd ONI background check completed on 11 October 1967 while Kerry was on the Gridley and why? I must assume the 14 month gap until Eliott issues the second Form 5521-429 is due to Kerry finishing his duty on the Gridley in June, then going to to the Swift Boat School in the interim time period.
I'm not sure what all this means, but here again we have a strange sequence of documents, missing documents, an odd second issuance of the same security clearance, and another missing document.

I think I just answered my own questions about the OPNAV Form 5521-1.

Here is a link to 2 documents from Kerry's site:

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Background_Information.pdf

Look at the second document. It is identified as a NAV Form 5510-397 (REV. 7-58 ) not an OPNAV Form 5521-1, but it is consistent with the information in Ref. (b) of the second OPNAV Form 5521-429 and was requested by CO, Gridley. So we know who, but we don't know why. I thought it might have had something to do with his Nuclear Training School, but that was in May, 1967 - before the background check was initiated.

Anyone think all this is significant?

We have all been obsessed with the spot reports, AAR's, Medal citations, DD214's etc, but look what came out of just 4 ordinary forms to get him a security clearance.
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilence" - Thomas Jefferson
"An armed society is a polite society" - Thomas Jefferson
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until someone tries to take it away." -- Thomas Jefferson

[Hammer2]

In looking into the documents for Kerry's security clearance another question came to mind.

Since Kerry had a SECRET clearance, were there any DoD rules that applied to that security clearence in terms of travel or contact with agents of a hostile government?
Specificly, did his Secret clearance prohibit him from meeting with the North Vietnamese & VC in Paris?
I don't have enough knowledge about this - any experts here want to comment?

I ask because my father worked as a translator at the NSA and after leaving, he had a 20 year restriction on traveling to any Communist country.
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilence" - Thomas Jefferson
"An armed society is a polite society" - Thomas Jefferson
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until someone tries to take it away." -- Thomas Jefferson

[wally626]

I have never had a Military issued clearance but on the civilian side is not uncommon to review and update the forms when you get your clearance upgraded or need to get special access. Its quite possible the second form just relates to the Nuclear School. Normal reviews are on a five year cycle and Kerry was out before that would have came up.

If his clearence was still active when he left active duty he would have had to report the contact with the North Vietnamese to his security office. If his cleance was pulled on discharge he would not have to notify anyone. I would assume the military would pull clearances on persons who were not at least in the drilling reserves, but I don't know for sure.

Edit: a NSA clearance is probably Top Secret and may have more restrictions. Also France is not a communist country.