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You GottaBeKidding
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 692
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 Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:56 pm Post subject: March 13, 1969 report needed for the 3 boat |
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Does anyone have (or can they get) the damage report for boat 3 after the March 13, 1969 mine incident?
There was a damage report for that date, purportedly for 94 (Kerry's boat), that shows damage to the screws and engines with an RPM drop.
It seems strange that a boat with that kind of damage would be used to tow the disabled boat when there were two other undamaged boats.
The Bandit brought this discrepancy up:
http://idexer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?sid=049265ab79588e6bc0ebd0da7711dc16&p=79#79 |
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gkdechow
Ensign
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 67
Location: Kansas City
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I think I read somewhere that it was Larry Thurlow's 51 boat that did the towing and Chenowith's 23 that picked up the two guys in the "drink". |
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You GottaBeKidding
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 692
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Wait, wasn't the story somewhere that Kerry's boat did the tow? Or am I just confused? |
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ord33
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 670
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| You GottaBeKidding wrote: | | Wait, wasn't the story somewhere that Kerry's boat did the tow? Or am I just confused? |
According to Hurley, yes, it was 94 that towed 3. But, what can one actually believe that comes out of his mouth?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5733860/
HURLEY: Joe, it‘s hard to figure out how to respond. That‘s so ludicrous, that so defies what is said in these Navy documents. The Navy documents say a mine detonated under PCF-3. It says that another mine detonated blowing Rasmussen in the water and injuring John Kerry. That‘s fact. That‘s not fiction. What Mr. O‘Neill is engaging in is fiction. He‘s trying to recall 35 years after the fact what happened and he‘s doing a terrible job. He says that there‘s no damage to the boat. Let me read for you the after action report that is the damage assessment of PCF-94, John Kerry‘s boat, this is the next day back at An Thoi and it says, two starboard and one port main cabinet windows blown out, VRC 46 radio and all remote unit pilot house inoperable, AC wiring shorted out, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) generator inoperable, steerage control after helm, inoperable. And it goes on like that. The boat was unserviceable. And let me—
O‘NEILL: Can I respond, Joe, to that point?
HURLEY: Let me add one other thing. That is it was John Kerry‘s boat that towed the PCF-3 back to port. |
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You GottaBeKidding
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 692
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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I hope someone who has the book will see what the book says about which boat did the towing.
This is looking fishy. If the 94 boat was damaged and the other two boats weren't, it doesn't make sense that the 94 boat was used to tow.
This would be cleared up if there were a way to get a copy of the report on the 3 boat. Surely someone here knows how to do that. |
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ord33
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 670
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| You GottaBeKidding wrote: | I hope someone who has the book will see what the book says about which boat did the towing.
This is looking fishy. If the 94 boat was damaged and the other two boats weren't, it doesn't make sense that the 94 boat was used to tow.
This would be cleared up if there were a way to get a copy of the report on the 3 boat. Surely someone here knows how to do that. |
"Unfit For Command" p. 91-2
"When Chenoweth's boat left a second time to deliver the wounded PCF 3 crewman to a Coast Guard cutter offshore, Kerry jumped into the boat, leaving the few remaining officers and men the job of saving PCF3, which was then in terrible condition, sinking just outside the river. Kerry's eagernessto secure his third and final Purple Heart evidently outweighed any feelings he may have had to loyalty, duty, or honor with regard to his fellow sailors. Thurlow and the brave sailors who saved PCF 3 and towed it out did not seek Purple Hearts for their "minor contusions." Indeed, several of the PCF 3 sailors did not seek or receive Purple Hearts. Chenoweth, Odell, and their boatmates who fished out and saved the sailors of PCF 3 likewise had not thought of seeking medals but only of rescuing their comrades and saving PCF 3. Kerry, however, portrays himself towing the disabled PCF 3 to safety after saving it. Another lie: The damage control on PCF 3 was done by Thurlow. While Kerry's boat, PCF 94, participated in towing PCF 3, Kerry was no longer on it for most of the trip (he was safely on the Coast Guard cutter), and Thurlow and Chenoweth are certain that Kerry played no role in saving PCF 3 or its crew." |
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You GottaBeKidding
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 692
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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The phrase "Another lie:" must refer to Kerry towing PCF 3 rather than to "The damage control on PCF 3 was done by Thurlow." That's not the way it looks in the text, though.
Is there any mention of damage to PCF 94? |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, paraphrasing the information.... I hope I get it all right:
PCF 3 (Dick Pease's boat) hit a mine. The engines on one side were knocked out while the ones on the other side were frozen at 500RPM, so the boat was weaving dangerously with dazed or unconcious crewmen/officers aboard.
Kerry fled the scene to a point several hundred yards away.
Rassman is listed as having fallen off of either Kerry's boat or PCF 35, and the crewmen of PCF 3 were also in the water.
Chenoweth's boat (PCF 93 - thanks, wuzthere) picks up the 3-boat's crewmen.
Thurlow was trying to secure a line so that he could get aboard the weaving 3-boat. He was thrown into the water on the first attempt, but finally managed to get aboard the 3-boat and get it stopped, where it began to sink.
Only when it was clear that there was no return fire did Kerry return. He picked up Rassman. Chenoweth's boat was already on the way to him and only twenty yards away.
The second time that Chenoweth's boat left the scene to deliver wounded to the CG Cutter, Kerry jumped on the boat, leaving the remaining officers and crew to save the 3-boat.
Kerry's BOAT, the PCF 94 DID help to tow out the 3-boat, but Kerry wasn't on it. He was on the CG Cutter, getting his 3rd PH incident documented.
When the other people who were there saw the way the event was described in Kerry's campaign biography and ad, they could not believe they had been part of the same event. They were horrified to find out that Kerry had actually received medals for this event.
None of the other people with "contusions" had applied for PHs. Chenoweth, who had picked up the PCF3 crewmen didn't receive a medal. They all felt as though they had just done their jobs and helped each other and protected each other. None of them claim their actions as heroic.
Kerry's AAR reported 5000 meters of heavy fire - not a shot of this fire was heard by Chenoweth, Thurlow, Odell or Pease, but his report was enough justification for a medal. He claims that HE towed the 3-boat.
He conveniently ignored the truly heroic work of saving the 3-boat and picking up her sailors in his report.
No mention is made in this section of damage reports to the 94-boat. (Kerry's)
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother
Last edited by Navy_Navy_Navy on Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JN173
Commander
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 341
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: |
Kerry fled the scene to a point several hundred yards away.
......................................................................................
snip, snip
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Kerry's AAR reported 5000 meters of heavy fire - . (Kerry's) |
5000 meters? That's over 3 miles!  That's one hell of a large force opposing the Swifties there. I would guess close to 2 battalions to cover that much distance with "heavy fire"  And there is some question as to whether or not there was hostile fire? I don't think so!
Is Kerry saying he ran that far before he decided he could safely come back?
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A Grunt
2/503 173rd Airborne Brigade
RVN '65-'66 |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, quite the gauntlet he ran, there, eh?
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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You GottaBeKidding
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 692
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I just wonder if the report on the 3 boat looks exactly like the one on the 94 boat that was (is?) on the Kerry web site. |
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Wuzthere2
Founder
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:59 pm Post subject: Setting record straight on PCF 93 (not 23) |
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| Just to keep the record straight, Chenoweth was OinC of the PCF 93. I know in the interviews it sounds like ODell is saying the 23 boat but he meant the 93. I know because I was the 23's EN from Jan 69 to July. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, wuzthere2,
Welcome aboard! We're very honored to have you and any of your shipmates join us at any time that you can!
Thank you for your input.
Any way of telling if the damage reports for 94 are identical to 3's?
As you can see, this board is a hive of activity, with too many unanswered questions. 
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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baldeagl
PO3
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 260
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:14 am Post subject: |
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Wuzthere2, while you're answering questions, can you tell us if David Alston was the gunners mate on the 94 on 3/13/69 during the mine incident? How many mines went off? Was there HF? What were the positions of the five boats?
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antimedia
USN OST-6 68-74
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/ |
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Wuzthere2
Founder
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:23 am Post subject: 3 & 94 boat damage |
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| Navy_Navy_Navy -- never saw a damage report for the 94...suspect that's because there was no second mine to do any damage. As I said in an earlier post, there are at least 20 guys out there that witnessed the whole thing. From what I've read, only the 5 guys on the 94 back Kerry's version. The question should be why? And Rassman's story is the biggest crock I've ever heard. Sounds like someone trying to protect some gedunked medals. Isn't it amazing no one else was awarded anything (that I know of)? We had our share of firefights...just not on that day. |
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