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RMalloy
PO3
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 280
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 Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Quote:
Here is the paragraph from page 317:
Quote:
Kerry and the other wounded men recieved medical attention aboard a Coast Guard cutter, which was the closest ship capable of treating them.
In addition to getting his arm patched up, Kerry, who had suffered a slight concussion, also had the bits of shrapnel and rice extracted from his backside.
Along with a third Purple Heart for the injury to his right arm, Kerry was also awarded a Bronze Star Medal for his bravery in the line of duty that March 13 on the Bay Hap River. He had certainly earned it, as had Larry Thurlow.
Admiral Zumwalt himself signed Kerry's Bronze Star citation.... |
Go back to page 314:
"I smashed my arm"
PAge 316:
"Kerry left Sandusky in charge of his own as he in to have his gashed arm
looked at."
Page 317: This is where he gets his arm taken care of, the Casualty
Report said it was a minor contusion, I thought contusion meant a bruise,
Kerry said it was gashed, stitches maybe. He goes on to slip in the slight
concussion (was this verified on Casualty Report?)
"In addition to getting his arm patched up"
Four days later Chief has him off the boat, which some where else
I read info from Kerry camp his last day of action in Vietnam was March
13. He gets PH #3 same day as Thrice-Wounded request is sent out
by Horne at 7:42 AM. Must have gotten the PH earlier that day? Or already had guarantee of third PH? Does anyone have anything from
Navy about why he left the PFC-94, any documents? |
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RMalloy
PO3
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Another Big Discrepency from Tour of Duty...............
This is Kerry's official bio, can use this stuff against him.
On DD214 - Date of Discharge effective 3-01-70
Tour of Duty - Page 338 -
"Admiral Sclhlech consented to his request and on January 3, 1970,
the U.S. officially issued an honorable discharge. "It was surpursingly
easy," Kerry recalled.
The book TOD covers his ass for three more months than the DD214 as far as his antics during this time. |
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RMalloy
PO3
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry about spelling errors...... it's the quantity, not the quality. |
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Tacan70UDN
PO2
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| RMalloy wrote: | Another Big Discrepency from Tour of Duty...............
This is Kerry's official bio, can use this stuff against him.
On DD214 - Date of Discharge effective 3-01-70
Tour of Duty - Page 338 -
"Admiral Sclhlech consented to his request and on January 3, 1970,
the U.S. officially issued an honorable discharge. "It was surpursingly
easy," Kerry recalled.
The book TOD covers his a** for three more months than the DD214 as far as his antics during this time. |
Maybe Kerry got confused (imagine that) between the American standard way to write January 3rd (1-03-70) and the European (French) way (3-01-70)' ' |
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RMalloy
PO3
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Poor Brinkley, it's all his fault.
Was it remarkable here is that Kerry is claiming to have gotten his
HONORABLE DISCHARGE on Jan 3 1970
Not the Active Duty Discharge into the Reserves were his DD214
his terminal date - or last day would be Feb 17 1972 |
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Hondo
LCDR
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 423
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Uh, folks . . . .
The date "issue" is a non-issue.
Look at Block 11d of Kerry's DD214. Format for the date on a DD214 of that time period is clearly specified "DAY-MON-YEAR". The date "03-01-70" thus translates to 3 January 1970, NOT 1 March 1970.
3 January 1970 matches other dates in Kerry's files re: his release from active duty.
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill |
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RMalloy
PO3
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:02 am Post subject: |
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Thanks about the date. He mentions later during his Winter Soldier
"fact finding" mission at the Detroit hearings that he was discharged from active duty in Jan, 1970, into Reserves. |
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RiflemanDD730
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:27 am Post subject: |
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It seems that the objectives here are to identify Kerry as the source of the 3/13/69 AAR and to establish that the report falsely claims hostile fire. So far it looks like Kerry wrote it but a summary of why each of the other possible authors did not write it would seem to be in order. For example, Thurlow and Chenoweth deny writing it. Pees said there was no hostile fire so he didn’t write it. How is Droz eliminated?
Then, even if Kerry wrote it how is the report shown to be false? Are we left with the testimony of Thurlow (PCF-51), Chenoweth (PCF-23) and Pees against the BOB (PCF-94), Langhofer (PCF-43) and Lambert (PCF-51)? It seems that other documentary evidence will be needed to prove that the report writer was trying to “duke the system” especially since Lambert, who was on Thurlow’s boat, is a witness on Thurlow’s BZ citation (that cites hostile fire) and refused to comment on the issue. |
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twicearound
PO2
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 362
Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Having my swiftboat sight and coffee for breakfast. My husband is retired AF, no vietnam, enlisted in 75. I have been keeping track of this sight from the beginning thread and just want you to know that I walk everymorning and pray for you guys to discover the smoking gun. This is all I can do. You have my hearfelt thanks and support and continued prayers. I just felt you needed to know this and there are most likely others doing the same. Thanks again
_________________
twicearound |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| RiflemanDD730 wrote: | It seems that the objectives here are to identify Kerry as the source of the 3/13/69 AAR and to establish that the report falsely claims hostile fire. So far it looks like Kerry wrote it but a summary of why each of the other possible authors did not write it would seem to be in order. For example, Thurlow and Chenoweth deny writing it. Pees said there was no hostile fire so he didn’t write it. How is Droz eliminated?
Then, even if Kerry wrote it how is the report shown to be false? Are we left with the testimony of Thurlow (PCF-51), Chenoweth (PCF-23) and Pees against the BOB (PCF-94), Langhofer (PCF-43) and Lambert (PCF-51)? It seems that other documentary evidence will be needed to prove that the report writer was trying to “duke the system” especially since Lambert, who was on Thurlow’s boat, is a witness on Thurlow’s BZ citation (that cites hostile fire) and refused to comment on the issue. |
Very well spoken and excellent points.
In accordance with CTF 115 OPORD 201-67 and COMNAVFORV 111501Z Dec 68 (NOTAL) messages, the following format was prescribed for SPOT REPORTING:
The event designator (MARKET TIME SPOT REPORT 13/1/TE 194.5.4.4/1) is broken down into these parts:
A. First two digits -- date
B. Second two digits -- event number for date (based on on-station times)
C. Command -- indicates event originator
Thurlow was asleep when report was drafted and given to radiomen.
Chenoweth was asleep when report was drafted and given to radiomen.
Pees was MEDEVAC to hospital circa 2200.
Droz was the most junior OINC on this mission -- PCF-43 delivered wounded to USCGC SPENCER while other action was still ongoing but not mentioned in the AAR.
Kerry was awake at the time the report was sent -- Kerry admits to writing many of the AARs on his trips -- the AAR states TE 194.5.4.4/1 meaning the report was not from the CTE -- The report revolves around PCF-94's actions -- Kerry has never denied writing this particular report.
The AAR is full of inconsistencies: Fire "observed" for about 5000 meters (3.1 miles) -- "observed" fire from both banks -- two other mine explosions "observed" -- MSF advisor fished out of water by PCF-94 but no other mention of Sailors fished out of water -- no mention of PCF-51 salvage and first aid -- CO MSF advisor information throughout AAR given to author (RASSMANN) -- no mention of rice bin explosions and Kerry being wounded -- no mention of close aboard mine to PCF-94 wounding Kerry in the butt -- no mention of PCF-94 leaving all other boats behind -- not a single bullet hole in any of the boats (except Thurlow's which happened on 12 Mar -- .30 cal is not a sniper round) -- Rassmann claims being under sniper fire while in water, yet he also claims to have been underwater as long as possible -- this river had banks along each side so in order for "snipers" to shoot at him they would have to be standing on the river bank to even see him -- immediate sweep of area by RF/PF and USA advisors netted one VC and no signs of others -- Rassmann and SGT Fields were awarded Purple Hearts for action that day but no one knows why -- Rassmann maintains he was under fire in order to validate Purple Heart -- salvage and stabilizing wounded was at least 1 1/2 hr operation standing still in river where purported ambush was taking place, yet no one receives bullet wounds or any damage from firing by enemy -- no helo support called in for ambush site -- swift boats were less than 20 minutes from RF/PF outpost, yet no SOS calls to anyone except LST to bring a salvage team to stop PCF-3 from sinking.
I could go on for days but I think you see now.
The paperwork filed regarding Kerry's 3rd Purple Heart and Bronze Star were intentionally fradulent. Instead of a simple bruise, Kerry added a second mine explosion and receiving shrapnel in the butt. We all know that happened earlier in the day. Maintaining there was fire directed at all boats during this operation was essential to receive Purple Hearts and Bronze Star for Kerry. The only person who deserved a Bronze Star that day was Larry Thurlow (OINC PCF-51).
LCDR Elliot said he put the language of being under fire in Thurlow's Bronze Star to keep the citations consistent, based upon Kerry's AAR. Lambert when cornered said he believed they were under fire because when a mine went off, the VC always followed up with fire.
- Chief |
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ncoic6
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Reg wrote: | Has anyone read the new paperback edition of Brinkley's "Tour of Duty"?
Why is this relevant?
Well, there looks to be a new introduction to the book written by Brinkley on July 13, 2004 and in that introduction he quotes a long passage from Kerry's war diary on the 13 March incident. Its a quote I have never seen before. Perhaps others have?
Roughly from memory the passage mentions:
1. An explosion near the 94 boat
2. Rassman under hostile fire in the water
3. The 94 boat returning from several hundred yards away to pick up Rassman.
4. Kerry thinking he is going to get shot while picking up Rassman.
For those of you are researching this issue I suggest you analyze this diary. |
Reg has raised an interesting point.
According to the Dobb's WaPo article:
| Quote: | | "In "Tour of Duty," these thoughts are attributed to a "diary" kept by Kerry. But the endnotes to Brinkley's book say that Kerry "did not keep diaries in these weeks in February and March 1969 when the fighting was most intense." In the acknowledgments to his book, Brinkley suggests that he took at least some of the passages from an unfinished book proposal Kerry prepared sometime after November 1971, more than two years after he had returned home from Vietnam. |
So, did Kerry keep a diary from the critical Feb-Mar 1969 period, or not? If Reg has quoted the paperback version of ToD correctly, there is another interesting discrepancy to be clarified by Brinkley.
Any thoughts on this? |
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Bernard Cullen
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:51 pm Post subject: Detailed text comparison needed. |
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[quote="ncoic6"] | Reg wrote: |
So, did Kerry keep a diary from the critical Feb-Mar 1969 period, or not? If Reg has quoted the paperback version of ToD correctly, there is another interesting discrepancy to be clarified by Brinkley.
Any thoughts on this? |
Yes, I smell cover-up and document detruction. This is a panic response. It now looks like Brinkley is in danger of loosing all credibility. He either has to really hunker down and go silent, or he will need to cut Kerry loose.
Somebody needs to do a text comparison - especially of the footnotes to see if there is any CYA activity that can help.
Great job, NavyChief.
Bernie
P.S. It is amazing how narcissistic Kerry is. His orange day-glow look indicates that his narcissism extends from his political image to his physical image. |
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MichaelP
Ensign
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 61
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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What about the fact that the reports use meters for distances and not yards. Could this be due to JFK's European schooling?
Mike |
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Pees was MEDEVAC to hospital circa 2200. |
Of note, Pees was diagnosed with a CONCUSSION from the action that day, according to the CAR.
This means three things:
1) He was awake (you do NOT let someone with a concussion go to sleep, that is SOP to prevent a possible coma)
2) He had a hellacious headache and wouldn't be in any mood to write a SPOT report
3) His mind was not in a stable state. Not to say he was not sane, but when your brain gets bruised (that's the definition of a concussion), you are not in a state of mind stable enough to write a reliable military AAR.
From this, and from his statements, it is reasonable to assume he didn't write the AAR.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | What about the fact that the reports use meters for distances and not yards. Could this be due to JFK's European schooling? |
Meters is not unusual when referring to distance. In fact, it was common. "Five klicks down the river" is 5000 meters. The muzzle velocity of a 7.62mm NATO round is 853 meters per second (I have no idea how many FPS that is without doing the arithmetic). Military maps are calibrated in meters.
Now, if he had written "5000 metres", then I'd buy the European argument.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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