SwiftVets.com

[Mooncusser]

I was wounded and paralyzed from the waist down for 6 mo.

I was unable to get a job anywhere after my discharge in '65.

For several years I tried and tried to find a job.

I finally gave up. I drove a cab for years and lived with family.

Gerald Ford gave clemency and guaranteed jobs to the draft dodgers if they returned and worked 2 years in public service.

Then Carter pardoned them all.

This country rewards good behavior and punishes bad behavior.


I know this sounds like whining, but I am not. I feel very lucky and I am completely satisfied with my life....I would not change a single thing.

I just don't want to see our soldiers treated the way I was.
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MACV '64...65
Thu Thua, Long An

I actually won the election before I lost it.

"It is a good day to fight! It is a good day to die! Strong hearts, brave hearts to the front! Weak hearts and cowards to the rear!" (Crazy Horse)

[Hondo]

Actually, as I read it, a pardon would have no direct effect on the 14th Amendment issue. The ban on eligibility for public office contained in the 14th Amendment is part of the Constitution. The President does not have the power to change the Constitution unilaterally.

Carter's blanket pardon of 21 January 1977 would not have applied to Kerry. This pardon covered selective service act violations and does not appear to have applied to conduct such as Kerry's

However, it is possible that a hypothetical individual pardon could shield Kerry indirectly. The exact effect would depend on the precise wording of the pardon (if one exists) and previously undetermined points of constitutional law.

The 14th Amendment's ban on eligibility for public office was adopted to make certain that officials of the former Confederacy did not dominate house/senate delegations from former Confederate states after they were readmitted to the Union. I don't know if it was ever tested in court at that time. The Constitution is silent just how someone who has taken an oath as an officer of the US is determined to have broken this oath. My guess is that it would take a legal action to determine this.

Since there were no treason prosecutions of former Confederate officials after the Civil War, my guess is that there is no definitive legal precedent and that this would be new legal territory. The Federal courts could indeed rule that it would take a treason conviction; they might accept the findings of a special master or some other form of inquiry. Don't know.

The effect of any hypothetical pardon Kerry may have received would depend on the exact text of the pardon. A blanket pardon for any and all crimes would shield him from prosecution, even from prosecution for treason (the Constitution does not withhold from the President the power to pardon for treason). A selective pardon would probably not.

A clemency decision, or an administrative board action to upgrade a dishcarge, would have no effect. These do not grant absolution for crimes. They only modify punishments and/or administrative effects.

My 2 cents worth.
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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill

[Darkhorse18]

The one thing that is going to work in our favor is that old Jimmy is still around and shortly it should be time to go to the source and see what he has to say. It doesn’t take a NY Times to get the ball rolling on this one. One or two GOOD reporters who are willing to find Carter in person not over the phone can really get this thing out of the blocks. It would make for a great start! Just a thought.

[NavyChief]

[Darkhorse18]

Some times silence can work in our favor. Lipsomb does a short article starting out with the NBC editing of the Kerry interview about his records not being for public consumption and then he follows along with the listing of all these people that he has contacted to try and get clarification on the facts of the discharge. Carter Warner and such why won't these people comment type of thing. This does two things he approaches it from another angle NBC News edits interview that alone is news. Secondly everybody who doesn’t want to comment looks like and idiot when the story is picked up. You were given the opportunity to speak up you had the first hand knowledge why didn’t you comment when first asked. Just a thought.

[Tom Poole]

[Rurik]

A lot of old timers, and the political operators, are afraid to touch communism. They ruin a set of perfectly good underwear every time the subject comes up because they dread the fearsome epithet "McCarthyite". It is communism, not Social Security that is the true third rail of American politics.

Next there is that worldly-wise business that worrying about loyalty is unsophisticated. Remember that old quote by one of the Bloomsburys -"If I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I'd beray my country."

Then for the youngsters, including Drudge, there is that bit that Communism is just, like, soooo yesterday dude.

And there are a bunch of people who don't want to talk about communism and subversion because they're compromised if the question is opened. This does not just include all those like Kerry's friendw who were variously useful idiots, admitted communists, secret party membes, and sympathizing "fellow travelers" not under party discipline. It also includes those who have never been communists, but whose enitire public careers and records are hostage to the doctrine that communists were never a threat, and who will be revealed as intelectually bankrupt instead of morally bankrupt.

And finally ther is another group. The group whihc is just plain against America. The nihilists who support communists, not because they like communism, but because they find it a useful ally of convenience against the USA. A power which they believe they can use against their country and then cast off later. Just as Lenin actively supported the Kaiser because that was the one chance to bring down the Tsar. You can identify this faction by their entirely negative stance, and the fact that they are now abandoning atheist socialism for radical Islam.
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Hating John Kerry continuously since 1971.

Essayons!
Fight Build and Destroy

[Anker-Klanker]

[firewoodtim]

IMHO, Rove & Co. did not want the issue of Kerry's discharge to emerge so close to the election, in order to avoid diluting its impact with Democrat charges of "October Surprize!!" It is only in the relative calm of post-election examination that the full implications of a president with a less-than-honorable discharge could sink into the public's collective consciousness, particularly that of Democrats.

Besides, the issue is only important if Kerry wins or is close to winning in the courts. If Kerry wins, then the prospect of a Commander-in-Chief without honor will be a chilling matter for the Electoral College to consider, as they approach the date in December when they must choose the new president. Also, can you imagine what the polls will show about Kerry's support, once the MSM is driven to acknowledge and publicly examine this situation?

In addition, Kerry has screwed his own party, by concealing this extremely important fact about himself from the country. It is an act of extraordinary hubris and self-glorification, at the reckless expense of others. This exposes the entire Democratic Party to a continuous, ongoing barrage of political attack from the Right that will be very difficult to counter, especially if it can be demonstrated that many Big Dems were complicit in the deceit.

In such a situation it may be possible to sway enough members of the Electoral College, who would otherwise vote for Kerry, to either vote for Bush or to abstain. I should think that many Electors would not want their names associated with electing a disgraced Kerry to the presidency.

Kerry's best hope, in my opinion, is that he loses this race. He has much more to lose by winning.

[Bob Chamberlain]

The pertinent text of the 14th Amendment reads as follows:

3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

The offending party need not have been convicted of treason. He simply must have been found to have "given aid or comfort to the enemies" by some unnamed body. And no later "pardon" under a Presidential executive order can "remove such disability".

If there is documentation somewhere that proves the Navy issued John Kerry a less than honorable discharge because he engaged in activities that gave "aid and confort" to the North Vietnamese, this would be prima facia evidence upon which to enforce this provision of the 14th amendment - and only a 2/3rds majority of each house of Congress could stay such enforcement.

But don't count on it. Assuming that President Bush wins tonight (which I do, being by nature an optimistic person), one of his first tasks will be to heal the rift in our society. We have become far too polarized as a nation and it is hurting our strength. Which will directly hurt our efforts in the war and end up hurting our troops. President Bush is going to have to try to bring us closer together as a nation. And that means the sorry SOB will probably get a free pass - once again. If President Bush were to allow the Justice Department or the Navy - or even a group of Senators - to go after Kerry (as he so richly deserves), it would just widen the divisions, not heal them. So as much as I dream of seeing Kerry strung up by his heels (like Mussolini and his mistress), I am more interested in seeing our country develop more unity and commonality of purpose. It's our men and women in uniform and our success in the war that really count.


Benito Mussolini and his mistress, Clara Petacci, after being captured and shot by Italian partisans near the end of WWII.
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Bob

Useful anti-Kerry campaign material at:
http://www.betrayed-vietnam-vet.info

[Zac's Mom]