 |
SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
republicanveteran
Commander
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 333
Location: Texas
|
 Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:52 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Brad,
I don't know what your comments were. Try again. If there is anything you would not want your mother to read, take it out.
Since you did not serve in the military, it is going to be very hard to discuss what Kerry did in Nam or his ant-war protests. We simply do not have a common frame of reference from which to discuss. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Bill Levinson
Seaman
Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 184
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: This is not about President Bush, it is about John Kerry |
|
|
| republicanveteran wrote: | This is not about President Bush, it is about a man who thought so little of the precious medals that many men have won posthomously.
He threw away his medals, he gave them up willingly, and is no longer entitled to the honor of owning them. When he threw away his medals, he FARTED in the face of, not only veterans, but the American people who ultimately honor our true heroes.
John Kerry has no honor. He owns no medals. He relinquished them.
|
This would make an excellent 30-second TV or radio ad, and perhaps a royalty-free downloadable leaflet. I might change the language a bit for public consumption. How about this?
-----------------------------------------------
This is not about President Bush, it is about a man who thought so little of the precious medals that many men have won posthomously that he threw them back in his country's face, or at least pretended to. By doing so, he showed his contempt not only for America's veterans but also for the American people who ultimately honor our true heroes.
John Kerry threw both his medals and his honor over the fence in 1971.
He gave them up willingly and he is no longer entitled to any claim on either.
_________________
--Bill
http://www.stentorian.com/politics/kerry Growing dossier on John Kerry's lack of character, ethics, and integrity. Free leaflets, Election 2004 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
republicanveteran
Commander
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 333
Location: Texas
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You are welcome to use anything I post on this board.
thank you for all your hard work. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
brad
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 22
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| republicanveteran wrote: | Brad,
I don't know what your comments were. Try again. If there is anything you would not want your mother to read, take it out.
Since you did not serve in the military, it is going to be very hard to discuss what Kerry did in Nam or his ant-war protests. We simply do not have a common frame of reference from which to discuss. |
There was absolutely nothing I would feel was offensive to my mother or any other mother I know. No violence, no sex, no drugs, no swearing, nothing like that.
My comments were merely that I was disparaged many times on this board by my 10th post (contrary to your assertion that no one would disparage anyone here). Please feel free to look up my original posts and the replies I received (unless they have been removed now also - there were no removals yesterday when I stopped posting) and let me know if you feel I was being unfair first, or treatedly unfairly first. I did not paste labels and names on others, rather they did it to me.
I also stated that I believe your site still would be here (agreed with you) if Bush wasn't running. Because from what I've read I believe this site is funded by Republican businessmen (with interests in Vietnam), and directed by GOP spinmasters. Can you perhaps provide funding information that no one else seems to be able to, to contradict my assertion?
The last question, on whether I was in the military, I have already answered.
I am actually sorry you feel (or seem to imply) that veterans, and specifically this group of veterans, have the lock on the truth. I believe that the swiftvets and Kerry and other vets all have differences of opinion, not that one is in posession of 100% of the true facts and the others aren't. However, I have still no where said what the swiftvets were saying was a lie. Nor have I suggested your story should not be told also.
And finally, thanks to whoever mentioned the ** (which I had never heard of before yesterday) and thanks to you all for helping me locate the disinfopedia (http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Disinfopedia), found when researching funding on Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth. If you don't like the info in it, you can edit it for yourself. Unlikely to get much fairer than that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
republicanveteran
Commander
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 333
Location: Texas
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Brad, I don't believe we have a monopoly on the truth. If you haven't been where we have, you simply cannot understand where we are coming from.
We believe that a veteran who throws away his medals has no right to claim honor from them and that is exactly what John Kerry is trying to do. Because he disparaged his own service and our service, We do not think he is fit to be commander in chief.
We do not hate Mr. Kerry, as many on the left seem to hate GWB. We know what a commander in chief is and are rejecting Mr. Kerry for that role. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| brad wrote: | | And I did not complain about them, I merely stated that I agree that if Bush was not running, this page would still be here. Because I believe that this group, from the documentation I've read, is directed and funded by Republican strategists. |
Please provide the documentation you've read that leads you to believe that this site is directed and funded by Republican strategists.
Isn't it possible that if a Republic other than George Bush were running, this page would still be here simply because it is all about John Kerry's service and war protest record? That it isn't directed at, by or for any Republican candidate?
_________________
Bye bye, Boston Straggler! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
brad
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 22
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Scott wrote: | | brad wrote: | | And I did not complain about them, I merely stated that I agree that if Bush was not running, this page would still be here. Because I believe that this group, from the documentation I've read, is directed and funded by Republican strategists. |
Please provide the documentation you've read that leads you to believe that this site is directed and funded by Republican strategists.
Isn't it possible that if a Republic other than George Bush were running, this page would still be here simply because it is all about John Kerry's service and war protest record? That it isn't directed at, by or for any Republican candidate? |
Funding information here:
http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth
And it is possible, but in this case I don't believe that is true. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Disinfopedia wrote: | "Conason identifies "veteran corporate media consultant and Texas Republican activist Merrie Spaeth" as being behind the group. Spaeth, "listed as the group's media contact," is the widow of Tex Lezar, "eternal Kerry antagonist and Dallas attorney" John E. O'Neill's law partner.
The group's founder is "retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffman, a cigar-chomping former Vietnam commander once described as 'the classic body-count guy' who 'wanted hooches destroyed and people killed.'" Hoffmann "first gained notoriety in Vietnam as a strutting, cigar-chewing Navy captain. But it was O'Neill, by now a familiar figure on the Kerry-bashing circuit, who came to Spaeth for assistance," according to Conason. |
This is all I found. Unless you believe that this Merrie Spaeth is some sort of eminence gris, and controls all of the group's statements (which she obviously doesn't - unless she wrote the affadavits), and you believe that all of the members are Republicans (not stated in the link, and demonstrably false), then I don't believe you can honestly say the group is directed by Republican strategists.
For what it's worth, Joe Conason's credentials as a "Vast-Right-Wing-Conspiracy-Theory-Monger" are better than his credentials as a dispassionate journalist.
UPDATE: Dean Esmay puts it better than I did.
_________________
Bye bye, Boston Straggler! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
brad
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 22
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Scott wrote: | | Disinfopedia wrote: | "Conason identifies "veteran corporate media consultant and Texas Republican activist Merrie Spaeth" as being behind the group. Spaeth, "listed as the group's media contact," is the widow of Tex Lezar, "eternal Kerry antagonist and Dallas attorney" John E. O'Neill's law partner.
The group's founder is "retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffman, a cigar-chomping former Vietnam commander once described as 'the classic body-count guy' who 'wanted hooches destroyed and people killed.'" Hoffmann "first gained notoriety in Vietnam as a strutting, cigar-chewing Navy captain. But it was O'Neill, by now a familiar figure on the Kerry-bashing circuit, who came to Spaeth for assistance," according to Conason. |
This is all I found. Unless you believe that this Merrie Spaeth is some sort of eminence gris, and controls all of the group's statements (which she obviously doesn't - unless she wrote the affadavits), and you believe that all of the members are Republicans (not stated in the link, and demonstrably false), then I don't believe you can honestly say the group is directed by Republican strategists.
For what it's worth, Joe Conason's credentials as a "Vast-Right-Wing-Conspiracy-Theory-Monger" are better than his credentials as a dispassionate journalist.
UPDATE: Dean Esmay puts it better than I did. |
Did I say all? Did I imply that it can only be true if they are in total control? Nope, you did, continuning a trend in replies to my posts that don't answer the questions, merely tell me what I believe (incorrectly) and then shoot that strawman down. Or, as you do, questioning my honesty. I have never had a group of people question my motives for no reason more quickly than this group of veterans here.
[removed. Brad, slander of who set up this site and speculation as to it's intent isn't what we're here for. Much could be said about other forums, where posters have been banned for questioning them.] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I questioned judgement, not honesty.
I proposed two conditions for you to have reached a valid conclusion. You say you don't believe at least one of them.
I merely point out that, therefore, I believe your conclusion to be invalid.
_________________
Bye bye, Boston Straggler! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
brad
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 22
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Scott wrote: | I questioned judgement, not honesty.
I proposed two conditions for you to have reached a valid conclusion. You say you don't believe at least one of them.
I merely point out that, therefore, I believe your conclusion to be invalid. |
I said that you said all, and I didn't. So you were not even making the same argument that I was. I don't believe 'all' have to believe one way for the intent to be there. However, if you want the points addressed anyway, it's obvious that getting someone to register as a Democrat and join your group isn't exactly difficult. Anyone is free to affiliate with any part of their choosing. So by that argument, I find yours to be false.
Also, you used the word honesty, not judgement. You wrote:
"I don't believe you can honestly say the group is directed by Republican strategists. "
The continuing censorship of my posts really proves the point for me better than anything you all could likely provide now. Clearly, this is a topic someone there would prefer hidden. As this post may well be also... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Scott wrote: | | Unless you believe that this Merrie Spaeth is some sort of eminence gris, and controls all of the group's statements (which she obviously doesn't - unless she wrote the affadavits), and you believe that all of the members are Republicans (not stated in the link, and demonstrably false), then I don't believe you can honestly say the group is directed by Republican strategists. |
If you can honestly say that, then I just don't understand your logic. That's all. Still not attack on honesty.
_________________
Bye bye, Boston Straggler! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| brad wrote: |
The continuing censorship of my posts really proves the point for me better than anything you all could likely provide now. Clearly, this is a topic someone there would prefer hidden. As this post may well be also... |
The continuing censorship of your point proves that you are not arguing the Swifts message on its own merits, but bringing innuendo, false statements and slander into your posts.
If you've got something to say about Kerry's fitness for command in refutation of the Swifts' message, then by all means, bring it.
If all you are going to do is propagandize for those who sent you, then your posts will be edited or you will be gone.
Simple.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grampa
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 143
Location: Eureka, CA
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ahh yes, disinfotopia, another leftwing biased source to track down those filthy VRWCs of the evvul corporations and their running dog lackies.
_________________
Iraqi Freedom 2003-2004. We won't take any of that 1960s crap when We come home! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
brad
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 22
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Navy_Navy_Navy"] | brad wrote: |
If all you are going to do is propagandize for those who sent you, then your posts will be edited or you will be gone.
Simple. |
No one sent me, I do not and have never worked (or, as I've said, hardly even voted for) for any Democratic candidate or party affiliated group. These are just my thoughts. Yet another unsubstantiated allegation... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
