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Heath Hunnicutt
Former Member

Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 12

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:41 pm Post subject:

carpro wrote:

So tell us Heath, do you have a lot of experience in that area?

In war, no? Have I been shot at with bullets? Yes. It was kind of chaotic, but my martial arts training kicked in and I hit the deck and bugged the hell out. And that was only an armed robbery!

More important, many of my close family members are veterans, and they have been plenty open about it.

Deleted by Admin

Nobody should ever have to kill, unless defending our nation is in the balance. That was not in the balance in Vietnam (oil was), and it was not in the balance during this recent Iraq bull**** (oil was).

But maybe you know better. I would like to hear stories about calm firefights in Vietnam, during which soldiers filled out paperwork between squeezing off rounds.

Deleted by Admin

Admin Note:

This forum was designed to facilitate the discussion of the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth strong conviction that John Kerry is unfit to serve as Commander-In-Chief.

If your defense of John Kerry can only be couched in rhetoric denigrating the fitness of another candidate, then we suggest that you find another venue for that expression.

Thank you,

Admin

carpro
Admin

Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:49 pm Post subject:

[quote="Heath Hunnicutt"]

carpro wrote:

So tell us Heath, do you have a lot of experience in that area?

In war, no?[quote]

That's what I thought. You need to stick with subjects you know something about.
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

Heath Hunnicutt
Former Member

Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 12

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:57 pm Post subject:

Navy_Navy_Navy wrote:

I stated the purpose of this board.

The credibility of the Swifts speaks for itself and stands on its own merits.

What the participants on this board have in common in the main is a complete and utter disdain for this chameleon Senator who has wrapped himself in the shield of 14 weeks in Vietnam and then conveniently forgets that he spent more than eight times as long as an anti-war activist and slanderer of soldiers.

Now, we're stuck with this chameleon traitor.

You seem to be trying to answer my points, so I'll stick with you for a second.

I agree with you that the credibility of eye witnesses stands on its own merits. This board is larger than that group, and that is part of what I am mentioning.

I have an honest question: Why do you think it was wrong for Kerry to protest the war and do so in a really ugly way?

I think it was the moral good thing to do. He had been there, he had seen it was wrong, had seen it was corrupting Americans, had seen that it was completeley political BS. (Please, I hope we all agree that the war in Vietnam was a horrible thing for the U.S. to pursue and had a terrible effect.)

By protesting the war as a veteran Kerry was using his credibility to stop the war. The point of stopping the war was to save lives of soldiers in Vietnam.

My honest impression is not that John Kerry is a hypocrite. My impression is that he was a dumb-ass kid.

First, he thought he could volunteer for the war and the "brown water" Navy and help win the war. Oh, damn. My dad has some hilarious letters from his officer friends that talk about "winning the war in Vietnam." This part of his career should be big comedy.

So, he spends some time in Vietnam and learns the following: (a) the war is completely immoral, (b) there is no way to win it from where he sits, (c) three purple hearts will get your ass out of there.

Next thing you know, he has three purple hearts and he's back state-side. Now he's trying to "win the war" for you from home; this time by ousting the immoral government that was pursuing the war.

The whole time, Kerry was fighting on the side of the little guy. He volunteered to go fight alongside draftees, and when he came back, he sacrificed his political aspirations to directly protest the war.

The reason people like me protest wars is not that we hate soldiers; we don't hate soldiers. The reason we protest unjust wars is that we love all people, including soldiers, and think it is very important they not go kill and be killed for unjust reasons.

I don't believe for a second that Kerry set out to hurt Veteran's poor feelings. I doubt he thought Vets would be so confused and also over-sensitive. Vets seemingly just don't see the difference between throwing a purple heart at the Capitol Steps and not covering for your buddy in battle.

The Capitol Steps are where Congress sits, people. Throwing medals back to them is a pretty plain-speaking way of shitting on Congress, not veterans.

Last edited by Heath Hunnicutt on Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy

Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:59 pm Post subject:

Heath Hunnicutt wrote:

Nobody should ever have to kill, unless defending our nation is in the balance. That was not in the balance in Vietnam (oil was)

Gee, and here I've thought for thirty years that the issue was Communism!

Silly me.

Heath Hunnicutt wrote:

Please, I hope we all agree that the war in Vietnam was a horrible thing for the U.S. to pursue and had a terrible effect.

Keep hoping, Heath. I think that the war was a noble effort for a great cause, destroyed by political stupidity and, from the likes of John Kerry, opportunistic defeatism.

Rolling Eyes

_________________
Bye bye, Boston Straggler!

Last edited by Scott on Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

zinfella
Rear Admiral

Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 708
Location: Mesa, Az

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:04 pm Post subject:

Navy_Navy_Navy wrote:

I stated the purpose of this board.

The credibility of the Swifts speaks for itself and stands on its own merits."

Absolutely!

Quote:

"Now, we're stuck with this chameleon traitor.

Not only that, but he's probably a polywog to boot! Twisted Evil

Quote:

"Personally, I will never forgive or forget. And my four voting children will not, either.

"

Same here, and we've got 8 kids, LOL.
_________________
No whiners!

zinfella
Rear Admiral

Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 708
Location: Mesa, Az

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:06 pm Post subject:

Well, I've seen some messed up replies in my time, but I think my previous post hit olympic gold in the screw up dept. Sorry. There, all fixed now. Admin _________________ No whiners!

Heath Hunnicutt
Former Member

Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 12

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:09 pm Post subject:

Scott wrote:

Gee, and here I've thought for thirty years that the issue was Communism!

Silly me.

Rolling Eyes

Hey, if you are going to pay lip service to the propaganda, it was about the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin

Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:09 pm Post subject:

Heath Hunnicutt wrote:

Why do you think it was wrong for Kerry to protest the war and do so in a really ugly way?

Well at least you acknowledge that it was in a "really ugly way." Rolling Eyes

Too bad you have it so HORRIBLY understated! UGLY???? If only it were just "ugly."

Quote:

I think it was the moral good thing to do.

You're entitled to that opinion.

I would never admit to it, personally, because it would be demonstrating my ignorance of what Kerry did.

Quote:

By protesting the war as a veteran Kerry was using his credibility to stop the war. The point of stopping the war was to save lives of soldiers in Vietnam.

Man, you will buy anything, won't you? You believe that pile?

Read the book.

Do your homework. Get your head out of your ABB mindset and take a look at the pain he caused for millions of honorable people and their families.

Then come back and tell me with a straight face that he was trying to save lives.

He started building his career on other people's lives.

And he doesn't ever seem to have understood what he's done.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

Heath Hunnicutt
Former Member

Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 12

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:11 pm Post subject:

zinfella wrote:

Well, I've seen some messed up replies in my time, but I think my previous post hit olympic gold in the screw up dept. Sorry.

Hardly. I'm just willing to say, flat-out, that the points the Swift Vets are making don't really matter in this election.

They can't prove anything, can't really back up their claims, and the worst thing they can say is that Kerry didn't get wounded enough while getting Purple Hearts. Whatever.

LewWaters
Admin

Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:13 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Why do you think it was wrong for Kerry to protest the war and do so in a really ugly way?

It wasn't just that he protested in an ugly way, he got up before Congress and flat out lied about events happening there. By doing so, he besmirched the honor, duty and integrity of every person that served there, volunteer or draftee. Since then, look at how Vietnam veterans have been depicted in movies and on TV. Even the so called
heroes" were depicted as angry men screwed up by their service and still fighting demons.

For over 30 years, many of us have had relatives, former loved ones and co-workers look down their noses at us simply because we served in Vietnam. More than once I've been referred to as a baby killer or a walking time bomb with a hair trigger. Live with that for that long and see how you feel afterwards.

Quote:

By protesting the war as a veteran Kerry was using his credibility to stop the war. The point of stopping the war was to save lives of soldiers in Vietnam.

By protesting as they did, it aided and abetted the enemy, North Vietnam. As a result, the war drug on 5 years longer than it needed to at the cost of at least 40,000 more American lives and untold numbers of Vietnamese. Source: General Vo Ngyuen Giap, Commanding General of the North Vietnamese Army and Bui Tin, Colonel who accepted the surrender of Saigon.

Giap was prepared to negotiate a surrender after his miserable defeat at Tet of 68, until he caught wind of Walter Cronkite reporting the North had actually won the offensive and saw all the unrest and anti-war crowds in the streets of America. Incidentally, recently revealed KGB papers show that many "protestors" were also KGB operatives feeding unAmerican propaganda to the anti-war left, including much of the "testimony" John Kerry gave to Senator Fulbright's committee in 1971.

Kerry stated back then that he doubted there would be very much in the way of reprisal killings from the North, estimating maybe 3 or 4 thousand. After Saigon fell, some three and a half million were killed in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos, in reprisals. A million and a half or so more fled South Vietnam to escape the Communist tyranny with an estimated couple hundred thousand or more of them drowning.

Let that tell you why we think what Kerry did was wrong.
_________________
Clark County Conservative

carpro
Admin

Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:19 pm Post subject:

Heath Hunnicutt wrote:

Navy_Navy_Navy wrote:

You seem to be trying to answer my points, so I'll stick with you for a second.

I agree with you that the credibility of eye witnesses stands on its own merits. This board is larger than that group, and that is part of what I am mentioning.

I have an honest question: Why do you think it was wrong for Kerry to protest the war and do so in a really ugly way?

You said it. It was the ugly way he did it.

I think it was the moral good thing to do. He had been there, he had seen it was wrong, had seen it was corrupting Americans, had seen that it was completeley political BS. (Please, I hope we all agree that the war in Vietnam was a horrible thing for the U.S. to pursue and had a terrible effect.)

He didn't see any of those things. That's just the point.

By protesting the war as a veteran Kerry was using his credibility to stop the war. The point of stopping the war was to save lives of soldiers in Vietnam.

The way the anti-war movement was handled encouraged the North Vietnamese and prolonged the war and cost lives.

My honest impression is not that John Kerry is a hypocrite. My impression is that he was a dumb-ass kid.

First, he thought he could volunteer for the war and the "brown water" Navy and help win the war. Oh, damn. My dad has some hilarious letters from his officer friends that talk about "winning the war in Vietnam." This part of his career should be big comedy.

So, he spends some time in Vietnam and learns the following: (a) the war is completely immoral, (b) there is no way to win it from where he sits, (c) three purple hearts will get your ass out of there.

I agree with c only.

Next thing you know, he has three purple hearts and he's back state-side. Now he's trying to "win the war" for you from home; this time by ousting the immoral government that was pursuing the war.

Two of which are phony.

The whole time, Kerry was fighting on the side of the little guy. He volunteered to go fight alongside draftees, and when he came back, he sacrificed his political aspirations to directly protest the war.

He chose sides to enhance his political opportunities.

The reason people like me protest wars is not that we hate soldiers; we don't hate soldiers. The reason we protest unjust wars is that we love all people, including soldiers, and think it is very important they not go kill and be killed for unjust reasons.

And you are the final arbiter on what is a just or unjust war?

I don't believe for a second that Kerry set out to hurt Veteran's poor feelings. I doubt he thought Vets would be so confused and also over-sensitive. Vets seemingly just don't see the difference between throwing a purple heart at the Capitol Steps and not covering for your buddy in battle.

Vets see a lot of things that you don't have a clue about.

The Capitol Steps are where Congress sits, people. Throwing medals back to them is a pretty plain-speaking way of shitting on Congress, not veterans.

Did you forget Kerry did not throw his medals?
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

Heath Hunnicutt
Former Member

Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 12

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:21 pm Post subject:

Navy_Navy_Navy wrote:

Well at least you acknowledge that it was in a "really ugly way." Rolling Eyes

Do you suppose it's possible that in the few years immediately after the war, Kerry was a little "off" emotionally?

Let's see: We know he killed somebody in combat, so we know that probably really affected him in Vietnam.

Navy_Navy_Navy wrote:

Too bad you have it so HORRIBLY understated! UGLY???? If only it were just "ugly."

I'm not sure it was understated. Compared to the ugliness of the war, his protests were only a little rude.

A lot of people object to the testimony he gave before the Senate. That's testimony, and I don't believe he committed perjury. He testified that people told him of war atrocities. I hate to break this to you, but I know family members who saw war atrocities. I am not going to give details, but let's just say that I don't think Kerry was full of **** when he said that.

Navy_Navy_Navy wrote:

Quote:

By protesting the war as a veteran Kerry was using his credibility to stop the war. The point of stopping the war was to save lives of soldiers in Vietnam.

Man, you will buy anything, won't you? You believe that pile?

I know for a fact this is why people protest wars in general. I know for a fact this is the reason that some of my veteran relatives (who I am very proud of) joined the war protests when they returned.

People don't risk being ridiculed and worse for political gain -- it doesn't lead to political gain in the first place. Being a war protestor was a political screw-up for Kerry. It's a great example of something he did because he recognized it was the moral thing to do. I don't think it's an intelligent way to build a political career, and I don't think it was his intention.

I think when people do things like that they are obviously motivated by emotion.

I don't know for a fact that Kerry was just following his broken heart, but I think anybody with an ounce of sense for people can connect the dots. The war broke him temporarily, capiche? It did that to a lot of people.

For people nowadays to sit around and second-guess a fellow who had just tasted killing for the first time is crazy.

Who here has killed anybody in combat? Not me.

Who here has read the statistics about the effects of killing in combat? I highly recommend On Killing by Lt. Col. John Grossman. He is the man who devised the infantry training program for Vietnam. His claim is that it was an immoral training system that ruins men psychologically.

Is Lt. Col. John Grossman a traitor? He wrote that the U.S. Army deliberately brain-washed its draftees in a way that caused them mental damage.

I would go so far as to say that Veterans, by not trying to understand where Kerry was mentally at the time, are being just as cruel to him as they claim he was to them.

Even if Kerry couldn't take war, kind of cracked, came back home and blew smoke, then recovered, (Off Topic assertion Deleted by Admin)

Admin Note:

This forum was designed to facilitate the discussion of the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth strong conviction that John Kerry is unfit to serve as Commander-In-Chief.

If your defense of John Kerry can only be couched in rhetoric denigrating the fitness of another candidate, then we suggest that you find another venue for that expression.

Thank you,

Admin

zinfella
Rear Admiral

Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 708
Location: Mesa, Az

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:34 pm Post subject:

Heath, you have a real knack for ignoring evidence coupled with the word of honest god fearing men. But, you're perfectly comfortable with taking the word of a proven LIAR, John F-ing Kerry, and now you want to make excuses for him. I'll point out that your excuses disqualify him from ever holding office. Any way you stretch is son, he's a jerk, at least in mixed company. _________________ No whiners!

Me#1You#10
Site Admin

Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:36 pm Post subject:

Perimeter clear

air_vet
PO2

Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 374

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:48 pm Post subject: Time warp

Man, I gotta tell you ... reading his replies made me think I was in a time warp and back on the campus of the Univ of Mich in '70. All that was missing was the tie-dyed stuff and long, dirty hair. I did learn from him that Vietnam was about oil... gosh, I was there - why didn't I know that?

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