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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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 Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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Do we have any way to confirm the date of Alston's wound other, or in addition to, Ted Peck's statement?
Looking at the scar, it appears to be a badly treated shrapnel wound, i.e. followed by a serious infection. Medics? Fortdixlover?
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 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ASPB wrote: | | So we're left with....where was Alston? When and where was the photo with Alston taken? The caption says March but it appears, from Tour of Duty, Short was the tub-gunner from early Feb until 13 Mar. Hmmmm? |
It was taking in Jan. I am 1000% sure of it. Look at Alstons head wound real close. It wraps around his skull to above his ear. If that picture of Alston was really taken in March we would see the wound or evidence of its treatment. We do not, so it is pre Jan. 29 picture for sure. |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:22 am Post subject: |
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The first combat action Kerry's 94 was involved in was on Feb 18. I gave Tom the info on that in a PM. (Kerry going up a river after he was warned it was mined, and mines go off!!! OUTSTANDING!)
Only one fire fight can be accounted for on that incident.
Only Feb 28 can account for possible 3 firefights Fred Short said he encountered on his FIRST mission. This explains why Short only talks about the Feb 28th incident and no others. |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| ASPB wrote: | Do we have any way to confirm the date of Alston's wound other, or in addition to, Ted Peck's statement?
Looking at the scar, it appears to be a badly treated shrapnel wound, i.e. followed by a serious infection. Medics? Fortdixlover? |
Boston Globe: http://tinyurl.com/39cab
In another report, the campaign summarizes action that took place on Jan. 29, 1969, this way: "While Kerry's boat and another [PCF72] were probing a canal along the river, Kerry's boat came under heavy fire and was hit by a B-40 rocket in the cabin area. One member of Kerry's crew -- Forward Gunner David Alston -- suffered shrapnel wounds in his head. His injuries were not considered serious and he was sent to the 29th Evac Hospital at Binh Thuy." (Huh? See that wound???)
Peck said he was the skipper on this day as well. Peck was also injured in the ambush and was hospitalized.
Okay, so Kerry placed himself on the 94 as the skipper so of course Alston would have to had been part of his crew!!! But kerry knew all along that was false and knows it is false today. My guess is Kerry knew Alston would back him so he needed to somehow place Alston with him, even though Alston has never served with kerry or been on any missions with Kerry. Bet Kerry counted on the Photo with Alston to prove Alston was a meber of his crew all along.
Last edited by The bandit on Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tad Belknap
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 49
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The awards were given in An Thoi on or about 4 March 69. Kerry had been given 2 days leave in Saigon and flew back to An Thoi for the award ceremony with Zumwalt as a "morale booster" (Tour of Duty page 294)
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......soooooooo is/are these the same "2 days" ...that Kerry says one of his Purple Hearts cost him in missing service due to injury for which he recieved the PH ? the other 2 he calls himself "walking wounded"... his choice of words "cost 2 days" I had always found curious.
As to Alstons wound,FWIW I was a medic/corpsman in ER & Pre-Op...it's impossible to tell whether that was a frag or GSW, many blacks are prone to excessive scar tissue forming. But I'd be willing to bet that whatever it was he lost alot of scalp and tissue as a result, and that there was grafting or very slow natural healing over the region of destroyed tissue, futhermore as I stated earlier much if not all of his head would have been shaved. I doubt that if he sustained that wound 29 Jan. he'd be looking like he does in the 5 man picture dated March....JMHO
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jalexson
PO3
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| The bandit wrote: | | stylin19 wrote: | actually, I think the blurb below it belongs to the picture:
"On March 13, 1969, a mine detonated near Kerry's boat, slighting wounding Kerry in the right arm. He was awarded his third Purple Heart and a Bronze Star for valor.
PCF (Patrol Craft Fast) 94 crew in March 1969,
from left, Gene Thorson, David Alston, Thomas Belodeau, Del Sandusky, and John Kerry." |
Wrong Picture date. The March 1969 picture Alston is not in it, it is Fred Short in it. The Jan. Picture has Alston in it. |
PHotos may be mislabeled because they think they're interchangable. If there are shadows it might be possible for someone with the proper expertise to determine the approximate date because the shadows would be different due to the changing angle of the sun.
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"That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
-- Mark Twain |
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Doc
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:42 am Post subject: |
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I posted this on my outdoor forum board...thanks and may God Bless...
Doc
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God, Guns, and Bourbon |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:01 am Post subject: |
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Update
Looks like kerry stayed in close contact with old Alston after VN. Now it is becoming clear why he is going out on a limb for Kerry. Ok this interview with Alston has him being wounded with Peck, that is true, but a clean bullet through the arm?
Alston's mother said he was shot in the head and shoulder. I just wonder if were not looking at multiple wounds for Alston for Jan 29?
Quotes from a article:
Kerry took over command of Alston's boat, PCF-94, after a battle in which the boat's previous lieutenant had been injured. Alston was also wounded in that fight, a clean gunshot through the arm.
Alston stayed in sporadic contact with Kerry after the war. Kerry invited him to his first wedding, to Julia Thorne in 1970, and sent Christmas cards to Alston's parents' house. Kerry aides contacted Alston in 1996, after a story in a Boston paper "accusing him of being a killer," Alston said.
http://tinyurl.com/64pzj |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Feb 28 was Short's first mission with Kerry:
Short, 56, recalled the first time he met Kerry in 1969.
“He was this long drink of water from Boston,” he said. “I’m a boy from Arkansas. I couldn’t understand a word he was saying and he couldn’t understand me.”
Speaking to Arkansas delegates earlier this week, Short told of how Kerry saved his life in 1969 when their Swift boat was ambushed during his first day on patrol under Kerry’s command.
Kerry used an M-16 to kill a Vietcong who rose up ready to shoot at their boat with a rocket-propelled grenade, Short recalled.
The move won Kerry a Silver Star, a citation for gallantry in action.
“I knew he was destined for greater things,” Short said. “This is a phenomenon I’ve been watching unfold over the last year.”
http://www.swtimes.com/archive/2004/July/29/news/navy_crewmates.html
Bingo! I just knew in my gut Feb. 28 was his first mission and most likely his only with Kerry. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:19 am Post subject: |
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You guys are sooooo good at comparing these details and ferreting out the truth. What a bunch of detectives, here!
My hat is off to you! Way to go!
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Lookie what I found:
AWFA: GMG2 DAVID MARION ALSTON, USN, 99T 57 46
BRAVO: ACTIVE DUTY, ATTACHED TO COASTAL DIVISION ELEVEN AT AN THOI, RVN
CHARLIE: INJURY, HOSTILE FIRE
DELTA: 29, JAN 69, 1030H, SONG CUA LON - SONG BO DE, WHILE SERVING AS FORWARD GUNNER ABOARD PCF 94, ENGAGED IN CORDON AND SEARCH OPERATIONS IN THE ABOVE RIVER, GMG2 ALSTON RECEIVED SHRAPNEL WOUNDS TO HIS HEAD WHEN PCF CAME UNDER INTENSE HOSTILE ROCKET AND A/W FIRE.
ECHO: CONDITION GOOD, PROGNOSIS GOOD. PRESENCE OF NOK IS NOT MEDICALLY WARRANTED AS REPORTED BY CORPSMAN.
FOXTROT: MRS. IDA MCQUILLAR ALSTON, MOTHER
GOLF: NOK NOT OFFICALLY NOTIFIED. REQ NOK NOT REPEAT NOT BE NOTIFIED.
HOTEL: SERVICEMAN TREATED BY CORPSMAN AND MEDEVACED TO 29TH EVAC HOSP. BINH THUY.
2. PATIENT ABL TO COMMUNICATE WITH NOK.
3. NO FURTHER INFO WILL FOLLOW.
----------------------------------------------------------------
This confirms when he was injured, but not how serious his condition was. You can have both your legs blown off and these casuality reports will read the same: prognosis good, notification of NOK not warranted and blaa blaa blaaa. Would have to get his medical report to find how serious the wound was. From the looks of the wound it certaintly looks looks like he never returned while Kerry was still in country.
Note: Kerry requested this report from the Navy on Oct. 13, 1998 |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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Yup, no wound marks or indication of treatment for a head wound above his right ear, which makes it conclusively taken before Jan. 29.
Kerry's Watergate...... |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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Bandit,
You might find this interesting.
Kerry was on PCF-44 until at least until 21 January 69. He was in Saigon with Zumwalt and Chreighton Abrams on 22 Jan 69 (see below). Alston and Peck were wounded on 29 January 69. Below you will see they claim Alston was on the PCF-94 from “late January to mid-march” . This is impossible as Alston was wounded and hospitalized. There is no mention of Fred Short who received a medal, NCM w/c V, for the “Silver Star” action on 28 Feb 69.
I’m beginning to think the photo of Kerry with Alston was taken between 23 Jan and 29 Jan. For what reason I don’t know. It may have been that Kerry was in a “crew familiarization” period with the guys on PCF-94 before the action that wounded and hospitalized Peck and Alston.
What it says is Alston never served under Kerry’s command as he was wounded and hospitalized on the 29th. There is no record of Kerry being aboard PCF-94 on 29 Jan. I can find no records that indicate Alston was returned to duty in Mar 69. As you've pointed out, his mother said he was "wounded and came home".
We need to see the after action reports for the last week of January for PCF-94 in addition to Alston’s records.
Tom
| Quote: | John Kerry's Vietnam Service Timeline
February 18, 1966
Kerry formally enlists in the U.S. Navy
August 22, 1966
Kerry reports for Naval Officer Candidate School at the U.S. Naval Training Center in Newport, Rhode Island
December 16, 1966
Kerry receives commission as an Ensign
January 3, 1967
Kerry reports for duty at the Naval Schools Command at Treasure Island (CA)-Takes 10 week Officer Damage Control Course
March 22, 1967
Reports to U.S. Fleet Anti-Air Warfare Training Center (CA). Receives training as a Combat Information Center Watch Officer.
June 8, 1967
Kerry reports to USS Gridley-serves in several capacities
February 9, 1968
USS Gridley departs for a Western Pacific (WESTPAC) deployment, to engage in operations in support of the Vietnam War. Ship spends time in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam, at Subic Bay in the Philippines and in Wellington, New Zealand
February 10, 1968
Kerry requests duty in Vietnam He lists his first preference for a position as an officer in charge of a Swift Boat (designated PCF for Patrol Craft Fast), his second as an officer in a patrol boat (designated PBR, for Patrol Boat River) squadron
May 27, 1968
USS Gridley sets sail for the US
June 6, 1968
Kerry arrives in Long Beach the day after Senator Robert F. Kennedy is killed in Los Angeles
June 16, 1968
Kerry promoted to Lieutenant, Junior Grade
July 20, 1968
Kerry leaves Gridley for specialized training at the Naval Amphibious Base in Coronado, CA in preparation for service as commander of a Swift Boat. These unarmored, but heavily armed, fifty foot aluminum hulled patrol boats depended on speed and agility when engaging the enemy.
November 17, 1968
Upon completion of his training, Kerry reports for duty to Coastal Squadron 1, Coastal Division 14, Cam Ranh Bay, South Vietnam.
December 1968
through January 1969
Kerry commands PCF-44
December 2, 1968
Kerry experiences first intense combat; receives first combat related injury.
December 6, 1968
Kerry moved to Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi on Phu Quoc Island
December 13, 1968
Kerry moved to Coastal Division 13, Cam Ranh Bay
December 24, 1968
Kerry involved in combat during the Christmas Eve truce of 1968. The truce was three minutes old when mortar fire exploded around Lieutenant Kerry and his five-man crew. Reacting swiftly, John Kerry and his crew silenced the machine gun nest.
January 22, 1969
Kerry and other Swift boat commanders travel to Saigon for meeting with Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, Commander Naval Forces Vietnam (COMNAVFORV), and Gen. Creighton Abrams, Commander United States Military Assistance Command Vietnam (COMUSMACV)
Late January, 1969
Kerry joined his 5 man crew on PCF-94
Late January through
Early March, 1969
Starting in late January 1969, this crew completed 18 missions over an intense and dangerous 48 days, almost all of them in the dense jungles of the Mekong Delta. Kerry's crew included engineman Eugene Thorson, later an Iowa cement mason; David Alston, then the crew's only African-American and today a minister in South Carolina; petty officer Del Sandusky of Illinois; rear gunner and quartermaster Michael Medeiros of California; and the late Tom Belodeau, who joined the crew fresh out of Chelmsford High School in Massachusetts. Others rotated in and out of the crew. The most intense action came during an extraordinary eight days of more than 10 firefights, remembered by Kerry's crew as the "days of hell."
February 20, 1969
Kerry and crew involved in combat; Kerry receives second combat injury – Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a shrapnel wound in his left thigh.
February 28, 1969
For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong insurgents in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 28 February 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94 and Officer in Tactical Command of a three-boat mission. As the force approached the target area on the narrow Dong Cung River, all units came under intense automatic weapons and small arms fire from an entrenched enemy force less than fifty-feet away. Unhesitatingly, Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry ordered his boat to attack as all units opened fire and beached directly in front of the enemy ambushers. The daring and courageous tactic surprised the enemy and succeeded in routing a score of enemy soldiers. The PCF gunners captured many enemy weapons in the battle that followed. On a request from U.S. Army advisors ashore, Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry ordered PCFs 94 and 23 further up river to suppress enemy sniper fire. After proceeding approximately eight hundred yards, the boats again were taken under fire from a heavily foliated area and B-40 rocket exploded close aboard PCF-94; with utter disregard for his own safety and the enemy rockets, he again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only ten feet from the VC rocket position, and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy. Upon sweeping the area an immediate search uncovered an enemy rest and supply area which was destroyed. The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission. His actions were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.
March 13, 1969
For heroic achievement while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong communist aggressors in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 13 March 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94, one of five boats conducting a SEA Lords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry’s calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry is authorized to wear the Combat “V”.
March 17, 1969
The policy of Coastal Squadron One, the swift boat command, was to send home any individual who is wounded three times in action. After sustaining his third wound from enemy action in Vietnam, Kerry was granted relief under this policy.
Early April, 1969
Kerry departs Vietnam
April 11, 1969
Kerry reports for duty at the Military Sea Transportation Service, U.S. Atlantic Fleet in Brooklyn, NY.
January 1, 1970
Kerry promoted to (full) Lieutenant
January 3, 1970
Kerry requests discharge
March 1, 1970
Kerry’s date of separation from Active Duty
April 29, 1970
Kerry listed as Registrant who has completed service
[Source: Boston Globe, “John Kerry, the Making of a Candidate”, 6/15/03-6/21/03; Tour of Duty by Douglas Brinkley, Published by William Morrow 2003; Selective Service System, National Headquarter |
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ASPB wrote: | I’m beginning to think the photo of Kerry with Alston was taken between 23 Jan and 29 Jan. For what reason I don’t know. It may have been that Kerry was in a “crew familiarization” period with the guys on PCF-94 before the action that wounded and hospitalized Peck and Alston.
We need to see the after action reports for the last week of January for PCF-94 in addition to Alston’s records. |
What the hell has taken you soooo longgggggg to conclude that picture must have been taken before Jan. 29?????? That fact has been a slam-dunk for weeks.
You want to see:
http://idexer.com/articles/alston_kerry.htm
http://idexer.com/misc/SpotReports_January1969.pdf
I have proven there is a significant discrepancy and grounds to believe there is lying, now tha ball is in Kerry's court to explain it, not us because we are not privy to medical records. |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| The bandit wrote: | | ASPB wrote: | I’m beginning to think the photo of Kerry with Alston was taken between 23 Jan and 29 Jan. For what reason I don’t know. It may have been that Kerry was in a “crew familiarization” period with the guys on PCF-94 before the action that wounded and hospitalized Peck and Alston.
We need to see the after action reports for the last week of January for PCF-94 in addition to Alston’s records. |
What the hell has taken you soooo longgggggg to conclude that picture must have been taken before Jan. 29?????? That fact has been a slam-dunk for weeks.
You want to see:
http://idexer.com/articles/alston_kerry.htm
http://idexer.com/misc/SpotReports_January1969.pdf
I have proven there is a significant discrepancy and grounds to believe there is lying, now tha ball is in Kerry's court to explain it, not us because we are not privy to medical records. |
Calm down my friend,
I asked you for the AAR's a week ago and haven't seen them. I always believed you were correct...I just didn't believe you had enough evidence. You still may not!
What you and I believe is not worth a damn to the liberal press unless we hand them a slam dunk that they can understand. The effort should be to get someone in the MSM to see Woodward stars and run with your research.
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB
Last edited by ASPB on Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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