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Almost nothing drives me more crazy than this...
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Doc Jerry
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Joined: 28 May 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 11:10 pm    Post subject: Almost nothing drives me more crazy than this... Reply with quote

Almost nothing drives me more batty than when I hear this: "By going into Iraq, we've created more terrorists." In addition to being a lame observation, it's blatantly false.

First, terrorists create terrorists (it's similar to the argument the Left tries to use when they say "poverty creates terrorists." It's terrorists who create poverty (i.e., the PLO).

Also, terrorists are not created. They exist. They've been around for years. These numbnuts completely neglect to mention the Islamic terrorism that has been occurring in Algeria, Indonesia, Israel, Sudan, Nigeria and countless other places for the last 30 years.

Cool Medics, we're there when you need us.
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GiveMeFreedom
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Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 279
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:52 am    Post subject: Re: Almost nothing drives me more crazy than this... Reply with quote

Doc Jerry wrote:
Almost nothing drives me more batty than when I hear this: "By going into Iraq, we've created more terrorists." In addition to being a lame observation, it's blatantly false.
First, terrorists create terrorists (it's similar to the argument the Left tries to use when they say "poverty creates terrorists." It's terrorists who create poverty (i.e., the PLO).
Also, terrorists are not created. They exist. They've been around for years. These numbnuts completely neglect to mention the Islamic terrorism that has been occurring in Algeria, Indonesia, Israel, Sudan, Nigeria and countless other places for the last 30 years.


Doc Jerry, I agree, I've been trying to come up with a response to the idiot rant about this subject.

This is what I have:

Quote:
I think "we have created more terrorists" is an incredibly simplistic and topical view of this issue. I think the war in Iraq has accelerated those to the front that already had terrorist tendencies.
Personally, I think having them out of their hole now and having them in our military's sights is better than not knowing who or where they are.


I have used it twice on 2 other boards, and the respondents try to then drop the subject, and won't say it again. I'm going to incorporate some of your points if you don't mind, and put it in my "responses for idiots" folder in my email!
Thanks!
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LewWaters
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Joined: 18 May 2004
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Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do they also mean to say that having Police creates criminals?
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:56 am    Post subject: Re: Almost nothing drives me more crazy than this... Reply with quote

GiveMeFreedom wrote:


I think "we have created more terrorists" is an incredibly simplistic and topical view of this issue. I think the war in Iraq has accelerated those to the front that already had terrorist tendencies.
Personally, I think having them out of their hole now and having them in our military's sights is better than not knowing who or where they are.



Gawwwwwd, I love this board!

Why can't I come up with answers this good? Right on, GMF!
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:58 am    Post subject: Re: Almost nothing drives me more crazy than this... Reply with quote

Doc Jerry wrote:
Almost nothing drives me more batty than when I hear this: "By going into Iraq, we've created more terrorists." In addition to being a lame observation, it's blatantly false.


It's only partially false.

Here is the full, correct statement:

By going into Iraq, we've created more DEAD terrorists.

-- FDL
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cipher
Vice Admiral


Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
By going into Iraq, we've created more DEAD terrorists.


You know, that reminds me....

During Vietnam, it seems that the Johnson Adminstration (and later the media) were *obsessed* with enemy body counts.

When was the LAST time anyone saw a reliable figure on body counts? They are very rarely reported.

Tonight, I heard the first one in a LONG time. Something about 100 terrorists promoted to "permanent routine" medical status in Fallujah.

I think the gloves are about to come off....
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:08 am    Post subject: Re: Almost nothing drives me more crazy than this... Reply with quote

Doc Jerry wrote:
Almost nothing drives me more batty than when I hear this: "By going into Iraq, we've created more terrorists."


More suggested answers to this ridiculous question:

We should do nothing about terrorism. After all, if we don't make the existing terrorists (who want to nuke us, slit our children's throats, crash jet planes into our skyscrapers, and otherwise kill us all) any madder at us, they will surely leave us alone.

Any why, exactly, do the terrorists CARE SO MUCH about Iraq, a country that was led by a secular infidel (Saddam)? What is there for them that is of such VALUE that they commit a long stream of suicide bombers to action there?

-- FDL
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cipher
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two tactical and one strategic reason WHY the terrorists are in Iraq.

The tactical reasons are: 1) That's where the infidel is; and 2) it keeps their fanatic base motivated.

The strategic reason is: This is a holding action, designed to create and perpetrate the impression of a "quagmire", which suits their long-term goal of attempting to demoralize our military and stoking the liberal media feeding frenzy.

You have to realize that the CULTURE in the mid-east is USED to thinking in terms of wars lasting HUNDREDS of years. This is a fundimental distinction from the way Americans view warfare. We generally crush the enemy in a few weeks/months/years and then spend a couple of decades rebuilding them after they are thoroughly whipped.

We didn't do that to France in the early 1800s, and we've been paying the price ever since.
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 12 May 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cipher wrote:
There are two tactical and one strategic reason WHY the terrorists are in Iraq.

The tactical reasons are: 1) That's where the infidel is; and 2) it keeps their fanatic base motivated.

The strategic reason is: This is a holding action, designed to create and perpetrate the impression of a "quagmire", which suits their long-term goal of attempting to demoralize our military and stoking the liberal media feeding frenzy.


Yep, I know.

I was suggesting that the promoter of the stupid "we are creating more terrorists" line be asked the question about why the terrorists view Iraq as important! It will perhaps lead to them thinking a bit - something most who espouse the "creating more terrorists" line do rarely, if ever.

-- FDL
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buffman
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They also keep harping on the fact that Bin Laden hasn't been captured yet--well, he is out of commission, hiding like the dog he is, but Zarquawi ihas surpassed him for now, and they don't talk about that much.
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ArmyWife
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Joined: 06 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard today, I think on Tony Snow's radio show, that a Muslim cleric in the Middle East condemned the beheadings on the basis that they divert media attention away from the suffering of the Iraqi people.

That means that he, and presumably his followers, somehow believe that the Iraqi people are suffering THAT badly because the US military is there. It's nutty, but that's what it takes for them to keep their fan base motivated.

I don't understand why we do not have our own broadcast station in that part of the world.

fortdixlover wrote:
By going into Iraq, we've created more DEAD terrorists.


I will be using this line in other forums! It's pithy.
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buffman
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Better to have armed soldiers fighting them and keeping them at bay rather than them coming after us like sitting ducks. Yes we have lost over 1100 troops in both countries but this is a global war. Heap plenty small price for security when compared to WWII. We were attacked and lost more people than Pearl Harbor, and it is no longer Sep 10, 2001 like Kerry seems to think. I shudder to remember the legacy of terrorists against our troops and people:
USS Cole approx 23 killed
Khobar Towers 19 killed
3 US embassies in Africa approx 20 killed ( not certain on number)
World Trade Center 6 killed (1994)
Beirut USMC barracks approx 254 killed


Did I miss any?

We stood by and did nothing to avenge these attacks, now we're taking action---democracy in these countries will mean changing the mindset of the Muslim culture, can it be done, who knows, but we MUST try!
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GiveMeFreedom
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Joined: 23 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buffman wrote:
USS Cole approx 23 killed
Khobar Towers 19 killed
3 US embassies in Africa approx 20 killed ( not certain on number)
World Trade Center 6 killed (1994)
Beirut USMC barracks approx 254 killed


Did I miss any?


Somalia - 19 soldiers killed
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Rdtf
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is it no one talks about the terrorist training camp seen on satellite in Iraq - complete with a plane? Colin Powell mentioned Al Zarqawi (sp.) in his address to the UN. And Wala! The evil SOB is there alright, and came out of the woodwork much sooner than he had wanted, which to me says he would have been even better prepared had we waited.
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GiveMeFreedom
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rdtf wrote:
Why is it no one talks about the terrorist training camp seen on satellite in Iraq - complete with a plane? Colin Powell mentioned Al Zarqawi (sp.) in his address to the UN. And Wala! The evil SOB is there alright, and came out of the woodwork much sooner than he had wanted, which to me says he would have been even better prepared had we waited.


agreed....terrorist training camp was called (i think) Salmon PAC.

Also, besides Al Zarqawi, Abu Abbas and Abu Nidal (both big-time terrorist leaders that directed terrorist attacks from Iraq) were both living in Iraq before the war started. I don't know the status of Abbas, but Saddam had his secret service (Mukabarrat(sp?)) assassinate Nidal before the invasion of Iraq, so that we couldn't capture & interrogate him.

There is some real nasty stuff that is starting to come to light, and IMHO, will eventually vindicate and prove that Bush was right to do this.
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