SwiftVets.com

[Real_Patriot]

How clumsy a right-wing propagandist do you have to be, for even FOX NEWS to expose you?



On FOX News Channel's Hannity & Colmes, co-host Alan Colmes challenged the credibility of the Swift Boat Vets. Colmes noted that Swift Boat Vets leader O'Neill did not serve in Vietnam with Kerry; rather, as O'Neill told Colmes, "I actually took his boat over, but about two months after he [Kerry] left." Colmes also draws attention to the flip-flopping nature of the comments made about Kerry by several group members. Colmes questioned O'Neill who appeared on the show:

Here is what Grant Hubbard [sic], who's now part of your group, here's what he had to say back then about John Kerry. And he signed -- let's put it up on the screen -- a report on Kerry. He said on initiative, one of the top few. Cooperation, one of the top few. Personal behavior, one of the top few. Why would he say that then and now be supporting you now?

Colmes further probed:

Let me show you the report of George Elliott, who also graded John Kerry in Vietnam. Here's what was said. Here's what he said. "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, Lieutenant Junior Grade Kerry was unsurpassed. LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group. His bearing and appearance are above reproach." That's a report of officer fitness from 1969 by George Elliott, who also graded Kerry. How do you account for that? Do you want to claim that everybody now is saying what you're saying? It's clearly not true.

[buzzsaw]

In listening to the press conference I heard only one of the swift vets that said anything even mildly derogratory about Kerry's performance during his activities in Vietnam.

The message I got from listening to those folks was that they were disturbed by Kerry's conduct after he left the theater. Their specific allegations as I heard them were that Kerry gave aid and comfort to the enemy through his antiwar activities after he returned to the States.
The impression that I was left with is that the swift boat vets are upset by Kerry's allegations that they violated the rules of war when conducting their operations.
The other point that seemed important to them was that Kerry should release his military medical records. It is my understanding that 3 purple hearts entitled you to a ticket home. The details about these purple hearts seem to be pertinent. Incidently I never have considered that we should say "won" when talking about a purple heart.

[Ex-Military Capitalist]

Kerry should release his medical records.

Let's see the boo-boo band aid that got him a purple heart.

He served 4 months active, then retreated to the safety of the good 'ol US, on a technicality. Coward.

Then protested the war, with Hanoi Jane.

And lied about what he saw. Four months.

Four months. Coward.
_________________
John Kerry got a bandaid for his boo-boo, and put himself in for a Purple Heart.

[sparky]

"Let's see the boo-boo band aid that got him a purple heart. "

He's refusing to fully release his medical records for privacy concerns. Journalists and his personal doctor reviewed those files and read the original doctor's description of the surgery to remove the shrapnel. It wasn't big and it was only on his arm, but it was a battlefield injury. And it could have punctured a major artery.

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

[sparky]

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

[sparky]

Well, that's quite a bit of material. However, after that photoshop affair (which is still reverberating in rightwing circles), it's hard to give much credibility to something someone says in a BBS about something someone else supposedly said God knows who knows when.

After Ann Coulter wrote in the National Review about killing leaders in the mideast and forcibly converting everyone there to Christianity, I've never given that publication much credibility. To have had her on their staff shows very poor judgment.

I know about those 300 documents released by Bush, but what's conspicuous are documents showing he was in Alabama when he said he was and that he even showed up for duty there. The media was awfully slack in letting him get away with that. Even his spokesman, Scott McClellan, agreed that those 300 pages still didn't provide any evidence that Bush showed up for Guard duty.

[Hesiod]

Let me see if I understand this correctly. Because participation in Free Fire Zones, and similar activities, are the ONLY war crimes Kerry said he personally witnessed, all the members of Swift Boaters for the Bush Campaign are claiming they never participated in them? I seem to recall that even John O'Neill admitted he participated in Free Fire Zones.

So what's the complaint? That Kerry repeated allegations made by others at the Winter Soldiers meeting in Detroit that he, at the time, had no reason to doubt?

They vetted the participants in that meeting thoroughly. Obviously, some fakers got through their screening process. But Kerry had no way of knowing that at the time.

Plus, the plausibility factor was pretty high after My Lai. You jokers act as though that never occurred.

As for him giving "aid and cofort to the enemy," well...anybody who even remotely questioned the war could be categorized that way. Unfortunately for you all, we live in a free society where the peaceful questioning of our Government is a GOOD thing. Cracking down on dissent would have given far greater aid an comfort to our enemies than anything John Kerry could or did do. Morover, even if John Kerry never said a ting, the My Lai massacre and other horror stories coming out of Vietnam would have done exactlky the same thing.

I long for the day when people who peacefully criticize their Government are not labeled as traitors. Quite frankly, the shrillness of the accusation (that's what "giving aid and comfort" means -- treason), proves that Kerry was right all along. That you have to resort to such ridiculous lies and distortions means that he was winning the argument and you were losing it.

People made allegations like that during WWII as well. But they were roundly ignored because everybody understood that the war was necessary and justified.

It's only when you are engaged in a stupid, pointless conflict like Vietnam or Iraq when the criticism gets traction, because people inherently know that the critics are right.

[sparky]

Well said, Hesiod. They are trying to deny that such atrocities occurred. Part of the problem is that the victims in this case were the enemy. This means conservatives have to deny the existence of these atrocities.

To quote George Orwell,

[Jeremy Eaton]

Navy (squared) wrote:

[eecee]

[eecee]

[sparky]

From the Washington Post, this EXCELLENT article summarizing what Bush didn't release. It explains why the Bush website is virtually devoid of military records.

Many Gaps In Bush's Guard Records
Released Papers Do Not Document Ala. Service
By Dana Milbank and Mike Allen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, February 14, 2004; Page A01


Files released by the White House last night from President Bush's Vietnam War-era service in the National Guard show that the future president was an exemplary pilot whose military record contains numerous gaps in the last two years of his six-year commitment.



The White House, seeking to quell a revived controversy over Bush's Guard service, released hundreds of pages of records that were previously withheld. The documents include what the White House describes as all the non-medical elements of Bush's military personnel file, including performance evaluations, documentation of his honorable discharge, and a thick bureaucratic paper trail of applications, promotions and transfers.

The records show Bush was an eager fighter pilot who said he wanted to spend a lifetime in aviation. But they provide no evidence that he did any military service in Alabama, to which he had requested a transfer in May 1972 to work on a Senate campaign that ended in November 1972.

Full article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A40964-2004Feb13&notFound=true

Finally, this important excerpt:
The White House did not release 44 pages of medical records that Bush's aides received this week, but it allowed a small pool of reporters to peruse them for 20 minutes. Bartlett said that was to maintain a zone of privacy.

[eecee]

Here's a link to an obviously partisan site that nevertheless has a pretty thorough listing of records released - or not released - by GWB and Kerry:

http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp