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[rikkoshay]

I just finished the book A Concise History of the Crusades by Thomas F. Madden. A dry read for most, but I found it interesting nonetheless. I recall studying the crusades heavily in my 5th or 6th grade class taught by Mr. Miller at the Hakata AFB Elementary school in Japan because we built this huge salt-dough map of the whole geographical area, painting it and making little stickers, etc.. I just didn't recall much of the actual crusade details.

Anyway, the reason for this post... On page 208, in the second full paragraph Mr. Madden writes "When King Charles I became Emperor Charles V (1519-58), Francis washed his hands of everyone and everything. Within a few years, he had allied France with the Ottoman Empire, an alliance that was to last for centuries. The homeland of the crusades was now in league with the infidel." Well, I paused there and began to wonder when and IF that alliance was every really broken. I know, approx 500 years have passed, but with Chirac being friends with and aiding Saddam, and his apparent support of the terrorists and or Mideast countries (other than Israel of course) it makes me thoughtful.

I'm not that much of a history buff. Anyone have facts on when and if that alliance was ever formally broken? I realize that as the mideast countries continued to fight and redraw their boundaries over the intervening years the alliance would be hard put to hold to, but what do the French teach their children about the crusades and do they slant their teaching pro-mideast vs west possibly because of this?

I don't really expect much to come of this post, I just needed to voice my thoughts.....
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[Anker-Klanker]

It must have been broken since, as I understand the facts, France has been one of those opposing admitting Turkey to the EU.

It's much more complicated than I can attempt to explain in a few sentences, but I think you will find the more modern answer to France's behavior in the formation of the EU. It's quite clear to me events in the last few years have shown that the French (and Chirac) want to return France to its former world prominence by effectively leading, or heading, the EU. The Bush Administration's declaring "Old Europe has lost its relevance" (which is true) only enraged them since it was so effectively targeted at foiling their ambitions. I believe that France saw glorious visions of themselves heading up the EU (elitist visions) in a grand alliance to counter the only other world super power: the US.

And that's just a knot-hole peek at what I think might be going on...

[SangRun Hunter]

France will try to rest control of the EU then Britain will declare war and kick their ass.

After that France will try again and Spain will kick their ass.

Then when they come back again the German's will kick their ass 2 twice before being repulsed.

Then seeing how weak they are France will try to makes amends with everyone stronger then them.

See how history repeast itself? LOL

In reality I think France is opportunistic and has long been one of those countries that plays 2 sides. Germany has been one of those too prior to WWI and slightly with the deception of Stalin prior to WWII.

The French have gone through history attaching themselves to whoever they think will be the winner or to whoever they sucked up too.

They have shown they sucked up to Iraq in this case and we shall see where France is in 10 years.
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Mad as Hell!

[Tacan70UDN]

Anker Klanker - I agree that France is out to be the leader of a revitalized, strong EU, set up in opposition to the US, and they, esp. Chirac, will do anything and everything to achieve that goal. On the other hand, the French and the rest of Europe are terrified of what they perceive as an avalanche of people coming in from Africa and the Middle East. They want to keep these people out. (For example, the French ban on Muslim headscarves for girls in the schools.) I suspect they want to try appeasement with the radical Islamofascists to keep from being overrun. Appeasement didn't work for Mr. Chamberlain, and it won't work for Mr. Chirac. Nor will it work for Mr. Kerry. This is a very simplified version, but I think it contains the basic facts.

[Hondo]

All this talk about France wanting to "run" Europe reminds me of a story I heard years ago from a Major I served with. He swore this was true - and I believe it is, since his mother was one of the prime actors and he claimed to have personally observed it.

It happened in the late 1960s when de Gaulle ordered US forces to leave France.

The Major was a kid at the time. His dad was stationed in France when this happened. It was an accompanied tour, so his family was with him.

His mom was German. She had married his dad when he was stationed in Germany sometime after World War II, and had emigrated to the US.

When his dad came home and told them what was going on, she was at first livid. Then she suddenly became quiet and thoughtful, and muttered softly to herself, "1870 . . . 1914 . . . 1940 . . . Ya, it's about time ve came back and taught zem some manners."
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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill