SwiftVets.com

[Doc Jerry]

Consider this scenario.

A highly decorated soldier returns from the Euopean campaign in WWII. He was wounded and even received several Purple Hearts. Upon his return, he joins the American Nazi Party. He even marches and protests our involvement in fighting the Nazis while the war is still going on.
How do you think "The Greatest Generation" would have responded?

Jump 60 years into the future. A highly decorated veteran returns from Vietnam. He also received several Purple Hearts. He too begins protesting the war. But this guy goes one step further. He accuses all soldiers still fighting in Vietnam of war atrocities.

But what do some in this generation do? They actually choose this creep to run for President of the U.S.

Our fathers would be rolling over in their graves.

[xsquid]

I've said before that I'm not sure I could ever vote for anyone representing the democrat party again since they've backed this piece of garbage. They've already shown me that they don't give a rats backside about my vote.
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11 years US navy.

[neverforget]

I know darn good and well I will never vote for a Democrat again. During the 2000 election and its aftermath I knew it for sure. Their party has been taken over by the people David Horowitz used to be, but fortunately has for many years recognized them as a front for totalitarian thinkers and doers.

[abartholomaus]

There is something in your statement that doesn't ring true to me.
We new the Germans, and the Europeans. At the time 75% of us were Europeans, and we understood why the Nazi''s had to go. You are compairing World War II to a freeking civilwar. If you want to equate the Nazi's to anyone, compair them with the Camere Rouge. I don't think for a minute that the Vietcong were nice guys, but I bet south vietnam's corrupt president wasn't much better. Deim vs. Ho Chi Min sounds a lot like Bush vs. Kerry.

The left is almost as left as it can get, and the right is almost as far right as it can get. People who are moderate are left without much of a say. I'm getting pissed at both sides. Bushes rhetoric is as thick as Kerry's, and I have a feeling it will only get worse as November gets closer.

[Theresa Alwood]

Sometimes you have to vote for the lesser of the two evils...but at least vote. I know I consider myself a republican and probably one of the few who is pro-choice. I have a lot of issues with George Bush but I have learned not to be a one issue voter (or two). I still think that George Bush is the man we need in office and I think John Kerry will take this country down so fast that it will be like a sink hole. I think people really need to look at the issues as to what is at steak. Do we want all the country courts to be like the infamous 9th circuit in CA...the one that is the most overthrown court. I don't think so. Some good men were not put on benches because the democrats really pushed.

Yet a vote was called in about allowing the UN to come in an watch our elections...would someone tell that stupid congress women Brown to shutup and sit down! The vote was 243 - 161...where 5-1 the democrats voted to all US money and the UN in...what a frickin waste of taxpayers time and money! So where is your party leading you and is it where you want to go?

I may not agree all the time with the republican party but I know that IT AINT to the left that I am going....I will be screamin and a yellin! I may not be the brightest bulb in the box but I sure ain't the dimmest!

[Doc Jerry]

I was not making any comparison between WWII and Vietnam. That's not the point. I was making a comparison between two creeps. One is fiction (I doubt whether any American Veterans were marching with the American Nazi Party during the Second World War, at least I've not seen any evidence of it). The other,--Kerry--however, is well documented. The conflict is irrelevant. It's the behavior that is relevant. And Kerry's behavior after returning from Vietnam was disturbing and inappropriate.

As far as Bush vs. Kerry, if you can't see the difference in both; then vote for Nader or one of the other fringe candidates if it makes you feel better. I don't recall Bush ever slandering an entire generation of veterans, but Kerry did. And has not apologized to this day. This creep even voted against military pay increases 12 times. This creep supported the current government of Vietnam and stabbed POWM/MIA's in the back (check out the Village Voice article of about 5 months ago. Went into this in detail). There is not one positive thing anyone can say about Kerry's tenure as a senator, not one.

"Yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as THOUSANDS of other soldiers have committed...all of this contrary to the laws of warfare." --J. Kerry on "Meet the Press" in 1971 and replayed on "Meet the Press" this past April.

The only thing this creep deserves is our total condemnation.


Go Air Force!!! Medics, we're there when you need us.

[abartholomaus]

In one respect I agree with you. The petition to the U.N. was a crazy idea, and it pisses me off. Then I have to separate myself and think about it. I'm from minnesota, and I really don't know what is going on in Florida. I'm fairly sure that a lot of people got worked up because of farenheight 9/11, and a statement like that only serves to divide this country more. I get the feeling that something bad is going to happen for this countries eyes to really open up. We've fallen into bickering, because of the aftermath of 9/11. For about year we were unified, then this Iraq thing happened, and nobody compromises.

It still makes me angry, because the U.N. is under investigation for the oil for food program. Like they are any less corrupt then Jeb Bush.
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[Tony]

abartholomaus - I'm in Florida and have been here since the Navy brought me here in 1986. I watched up close as the Gore campaign tried to cherry pick votes in selective democratic districts (mostly in South Florida) and recently, our local papers have been filled with accounts of Corrine Brown (one of our Representatives from Jacksonville) who has stirred up the pot with comments about Republicans stealing the election and calls for UN oversight.

Of course there was nothing stolen and extensive hand vote counting afterward by the likes of USA Today proved that George Bush really did win Florida fair and square. Also of interest to me was that no one was up here in St. Johns county asking for recounts - perhaps due to the fact that we are 4 or 5 to 1 Republican and in fact had our own local scandal when some attempts were made to block some of the military absentee ballots that did not have post marks (these are the ones that would have come from deployed military units). The Dems tried to throw these out, because they know how the military votes.

I'm sure the media will be stirring things up in Florida, given our Governor's relation to the President, but our voting process is fine and we're working hard to make sure that George Bush once again carries this great state. New Englanders with connections to the Kennedys don't play too well in these parts.....
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http://tonyk.smugmug.com/photos/1822816-L-1.jpg
USN 1983-1992

[abartholomaus]

The last one i put down was in responce to Theresa.

The next is in response to Doc.

People tend to focus on the first line of his speech, and the rest just blows through their brains. In a figurative respect, he was right. We went into Vietnam and created a situation that was worse had we not been there. If you think of the whole thing as an atrocious mistake, then you might be able to agree with his words. I think it is exadurated to say he was putting every one on trial. The army moves and thinks as one. When one part breaks down the whole machine breaks down... His statement was a blanket statement that pointed to those who were ultimately responsible, the chain of command.
The soldiers on the ground are not in a position of responsibility (the privates and E-4s). My old command sargeant major had a saying... "Do as your told, do as your told, god damn do as your told!" When the command turns a blind eye to what the soldiers do, they are in effect encouraging atrocity. How do you think that crap happened at Abu Gareb (I can't spell worth crap)? There was a loss of control by the chain of command. Those NCO's should have known better, but how could that have happened in the first place? Something broke down, and it wasn't just the act of a few oddball soldiers.

When I read his speech it blew me away that they were talking about the bombs in Laos back then. There was an episode of Savy Traveler where the dude went to Laos, and people were literally making houses and fences out of bomb shells. Some of them were still live. I guess people are still dying over there because of UXO. Kerry wasn't lying about the extent of the carpet bombing.

As an army man I would tend to see death up close and personal. No disrespect to Air Force and Naval personel, but I find their opinions to be a little distant from what happens on the ground. Patrol boat crews are probably the exception, rather than the rule. The last time the navy has been in serious ship sinking combat was WWII. The fact is Army, Navy, Airforce, and Marines all acted together. I think it is niave to think we can do know wrong, because if we do we are damned to repeat the same mistakes. I'm tired of picking fights with weak countries, for weak reasons.
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[abartholomaus]

this one is to Tony

Yeah, I remember a bit of the supreme court hearings. Gore was trying to be sneeky. I remember the Republican's side sounded just as hypocritical. I was satisfied with how the court handled it. It was like there was some sanity after all.

I remember the press had their own ideas about the whole thing. It all depended on which station you watched. In my own heart of hearts I think the margin of error was just too large for anyone to come to a conclusion. I was happy when people started dropping the subject. Then F. 9/11 got everyone worked up over it again.

There are no doubts in my mind that the strong republican leaning government had an effect on the election in Florida. I don't think they were purposefully trying to mess with the out come, but I think their own personal perspectives of what was acceptable had an effect. You can't avoid human error in any scientific study. If we really wanted an accurate election, we would need to have multiple elections for the same list of candidates. Then our election budget would surpass defense spending. The whole argument is ludicris over who one Florida.

F. 9/11 got everyone thinking about the coincidences. Jeb Bush, George Bush, Florida as the swing state for the election, republicans over looking the election.... etc. In Farenheight they portrayed Bush as knowing the out come of the election, because Bush had Florida in the bag. That whole arguement doesn't make sense to me, because Bush has proved time and again he can't predict every outcome.
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[neverforget]

I stated my veteran credentials in the Veteran's Only sticky above.

I only want to make a six-part comment:

1. I had the honor of listening to the commander (before Kerry) of swift boat #94 a couple of months ago;
2. He stated unequivocally that Kerry, in his biography, "Tour of Duty" by Douglas Brinkley, attributed to himself many of the exploits of the previous commander of swift boat #94, that is, he said he participated in events that either took place before he got to Vietnam or occurred when he was in a different part of the country;
3. The only source of this information for Brinkley was Kerry himself;
4. In my opinion Kerry evinces the the symptom of pseudologica fantastica which is a characteristic of narcissistic personality disorder;
5. In other words, he has no true self or ego and must seek it out in others;
6. Do we want this man as president?

[abartholomaus]

what was the guy's name on boat #94?

Apparently, I have some reading to do.

My Brother is an Lt. in the army. He's quite an extrovert, and sometimes I wonder if he has a personality of his own. I swear he thinks he's Napolean sometimes.
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[neverforget]

I believe his name is Edward (Ted) Peck. He retired from the Navy as a Captain. There was ONE article about this:

Boston.com

You'll probably have to cut and paste, because I don't know how to do HTML.

[ASPB]

Discrepancies noted in Kerry's record
Ex-skipper says website wrong
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | April 23, 2004

WASHINGTON -- Vietnam combat records posted on John F. Kerry's campaign website for the month of January 1969 as evidence of his service aboard swift boat No. 94 describe action that occurred before Kerry was skipper of that craft, according to the officer who said he commanded the boat at the time.

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On the site, the Massachusetts senator is described as the skipper of Navy boat No. 94 during several actions in late January 1969.

However, Edward Peck, who was the skipper of the 94 before Kerry took over, said combat reports posted by the campaign for January 1969 involve action when he was the skipper, not Kerry. Peck, who was seriously wounded in fighting that took place on Jan. 29, 1969, said he believes Kerry campaign aides made a mistake in claiming Kerry as skipper of the 94 at that time.

On the Kerry website, the report of the combat on that day on the 94 boat is posted as occurring during Kerry's time as skipper of the boat. Peck said Kerry replaced him after the Jan. 29, 1969, event.

"Those are definitely mine," Peck said, referring to the combat reports that the Kerry campaign posted as representing Kerry's action. "There is no doubt about it."

A Kerry campaign spokesman, Michael Meehan, said in an e-mail that the campaign had obtained the combat reports for the 94 from the Navy. He did not directly address the question of why the campaign describes Kerry being skipper of the 94 at a time when Peck says he commanded the boat.

The reports at issue are in a 20-page batch representing Kerry's combat in January 1969. The reports include references to some dramatic action, including an ambush of Patrol Craft Fast, or PCF, 94. In addition to posting the information online, the campaign sent out an e-mail yesterday afternoon repeating the claim that Kerry was the skipper of the 94 boat throughout January and describing action the campaign said Kerry experienced while commanding the craft.

For example, in a summary of action that occurred Jan. 26, 1969, the campaign says Kerry served on boat No. 94 alongside another boat, No. 66. "PCFs 94 and 66 escorted troops up the Ong Doc River early in the morning when they were ambushed by gun and rocket fire from approximately 40 men on both sides of the river," the campaign summary says. "Two B-40 rounds hit close to Kerry's boat, while PCF 66 received 2 B-40 rocket hits. Three men on PCF66 were wounded. A junk containing South Vietnamese troops was also sunk, killing 11 South Vietnamese troops. Intelligence reports after the mission indicated that the Viet Cong troops may have planned the ambush in advance."

Peck said he was the skipper of the 94 at this time and that Kerry was not on the craft. While combat reports show several boats traveling with the 94, the campaign website says only that Kerry was the skipper of the 94 and does not try to place him on the other boats.

In another report, the campaign summarizes action that took place on Jan. 29, 1969, this way: "While Kerry's boat and another [PCF72] were probing a canal along the river, Kerry's boat came under heavy fire and was hit by a B-40 rocket in the cabin area. One member of Kerry's crew -- Forward Gunner David Alston -- suffered shrapnel wounds in his head. His injuries were not considered serious and he was sent to the 29th Evac Hospital at Binh Thuy."

Peck said he was the skipper on this day as well. Peck was also injured in the ambush and was hospitalized.

As a result, Kerry then took over the crew, Peck said. The Navy combat report posted by the Kerry campaign states that Peck and Alston were injured in the same event. There is no mention of Kerry in that report.

Kerry's commanding officer, George Elliott, said in a telephone interview that he vividly recalls Peck's injury and hospitalization and Kerry's replacement of Peck. "I think somebody made a mistake who doesn't know" the timing of Kerry's service, Elliott said. Kerry was skipper of boat No. 44 in December and January before taking over command of the 94, he said.

Michael Kranish can be reached by e-mail at kranish@globe.com.
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On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB

[neverforget]

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