SwiftVets.com

[KeithNolan]

Has the SBVFT issued any formal answer to this article by Joe Conason? If not, how about some informal responses from you guys (and I don't mean the typical shoot-the-messenger responses)? Thanks, Keith Nolan

Aiming for John Kerry's Purple Heart
How low will the Swift Boat Veterans sink to defame the presidential candidate's Vietnam record?

By Joe Conason

July 16, 2004 | The hunting of John Kerry has now been contracted to a hired gun.

A private detective retained by "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" -- the Texas-based group seeking to discredit John Kerry's military record -- is contacting veterans who may have information about the incidents that led to Kerry's Vietnam decorations. According to a former Kerry crew member, several of the Massachusetts senator's old Navy comrades have refused to talk with the detective, a former FBI agent named Thomas Rupprath -- and some have complained that the detective tried to put damaging words in their mouths.

Rupprath's efforts are clearly intended to discredit Kerry's military record, which should surprise nobody familiar with the "Swift Boat" group. Its leaders are conservative Republicans embittered over Kerry's later antiwar activism and determined that he should never become the nation's commander in chief. Two months ago, their opening salvo against the Democratic presidential nominee fizzled -- in part because it was revealed that several of the same officers now criticizing Kerry had written strongly positive evaluations of him as a young lieutenant decades ago.

Registered as a "527" organization with the Internal Revenue Service, the "Swift Boat Veterans" group can raise and spend unlimited amounts of money for campaign activities, but is prohibited from working directly with the Bush campaign or the Republican Party. Its spokesmen have repeatedly denied any GOP sponsorship, although several of the group's leaders have longstanding ties with the Republican Party.

So does its most significant financial backer. The largest donor by far is Houston home builder and religious right activist Bob Perry. According to the group's latest IRS filing, Perry gave $100,000 to the "Swift Boat Veterans" on June 30. His generosity accounted for nearly two-thirds of the group's total receipts, and no other single donor gave more than $25,000. In a profile published last November, the Houston Chronicle reported that Perry is the single largest Republican donor in Texas. He has close ties to White House political director Karl Rove and to Tom DeLay. Since 2000, Perry has donated nearly $800,000 to GOP political action committees associated with DeLay and other Republican congressional leaders.

Now Rupprath is pursuing the questions raised by the anti-Kerry veterans -- such as the nature of the wounds that led to the awarding of three Purple Hearts to the young lieutenant, and the circumstances under which he was decorated for valor. In a brief interview with the Dallas Morning News – which broke the news of his investigation on July 12 -- the detective said: "We're not making any accusations until I think we have them truly buttoned up and can be presented in as authentic and credible a manner as possible."

During the past two weeks, in fact, Rupprath has been inquiring about the now-famous firefight of Feb. 28, 1969, when Kerry ordered his crew to beach their boat on the shores of a Mekong Delta canal and then ran ashore to kill a guerrilla wielding a grenade launcher. The consensus among Kerry's former crew members is that his action saved all their lives, since otherwise the guerilla could have fired a round with enough explosive force to destroy their boat. His Navy superiors agreed, awarding him the Silver Star.

Kerry's critics have tried to suggest that he recklessly endangered his crew by leaving the boat -- or that the guerrilla was already mortally wounded before Kerry shot him. Presumably the "Swift Boat" group hired Rupprath to find proof of such allegations, but so far he may not be making much progress.

A pro-Kerry veteran who spoke with the detective said Rupprath explained that "he was just looking into the various incidents that led to Kerry's awards and he was interviewing people about them." The detective didn't learn anything derogatory about Kerry's conduct from him. Rupprath later sent him a typed version of their conversation that contained only a few minor mistakes. The veteran, who asked not to be identified, corrected those errors and returned the interview to the detective.

Another theme promoted by the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" is that Kerry somehow exaggerated the injuries that led to his Purple Heart awards, or may even have inflicted them on himself. Kerry's first wound occurred on Dec. 2, 1968, which was the very first night he went on a swift boat patrol. Although several witnesses who were present that night remember that Kerry's arm was creased during a firefight with National Liberation Front guerrillas, a former commander who wasn't there has claimed that there was no report of enemy fire.

Among the witnesses who does recall the firefight is Pat Runyon, a former crew member on Kerry's boat. He too spoke with Rupprath when the detective contacted him recently -- and told Dallas Morning News reporter Wayne Slater that he was stunned to find serious inaccuracies in a version of the interview that Rupprath later sent to him. The most damning mistake, Runyon said, was an insinuation that Kerry's injury had been caused by a flare rather than a bullet.

Runyon isn't alone in suspecting that Rupprath may misuse his words, according to Wade Sanders, a former deputy assistant secretary of the Navy who served with Kerry in Vietnam and is publicly supporting the Democrat. Sanders said he has heard lately from a pair of other Navy veterans interviewed by the detective. "They told me that he sent them transcripts [of their interviews] and that they told him that his version was a misrepresentation of what they said."

Reached in Dallas, Rupprath referred all questions to Merrie Spaeth, the public relations executive and Republican activist who put together the "Swift Boat Veterans" group. Asked about the charges of distortion by Runyon and Sanders, the detective replied: "I want to just state that I am making no statement."

salon.com

[hist/student]

Well M R Nolan rather then me tearing that piece to shreds why don't you show your metal as a 'historian' analyst and Author-----OBJECTIVELY

You have been a member of this forum for quite some time and are well aware of many of the errors of fact which connason presents and have been discussed at length here.

Show your metal and tell me what is wrong about both the source and the content of what you have presented here.

I appreciate your stating 'don't shoot the messenger'.... and this is not my intent. I have however by way of reading .....probably 50k words written by you on this forum come to question your objectiveness, intellectual honesty and 'mission' here .

I have also questioned Mr. Reese's credibility much more forcefully and have come to respect him immensely... though I do not agree with most of what he says and remain skeptical about his 'mission' here. Reese does make an effort at getting at the truth which does not seem to be on your list of objectives.

(Deleted by Admin)

If you are not a historian, analyst and author yet present yourself as so in such trying times.......... enjoy the picture one of the two most famous and first bits of mass media propaganda from American history... but you already know this:

[ASPB]

I guess the response is simple!

So Fng What!

Hiring investigators is wrong?
Asking leading questions is wrong?
Knowing Politicians is wrong?
He wouldn't send them transcripts for review if he didn't want them verified as to accuracy.
Who the Hell do think would fund the group? Kerry Supporters?

And all of this inuendo and lies from a lifelong Democratic Party hack.


Classic Tammany Hall, Perdergast, and Daley sleazy politics IMHO.

I'll guarantee you one thing. We have honor and if the facts don't support the suspicions you won't hear about the "in country" stuff.

But you damn well will hear a lot more VVAW and Wintersoldier before November 2.
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB

[hist/student]

I would like to hear from Mr Nolan.... this is a test of his intellectual honesty.

I'll wait a couple of days for him to explain why and what is in error with what he has posted. He may likely be very busy, however Mr Nolan you, as a student of history should be quite able to point out various lapses in the credibility of what you have posted.

You should be able to point out such lapses in any argument presented anywhere about anything. Likewise you could point out what you find the connason pieces strong points to be??

[carpro]

Keith, since it is your wish that the messenger not be shot, why don't you have Conason visit this forum in person to make his case?

I'm sure he'll get all the attention he deserves.

That would also provide him with the opportunity to back up any assertions he makes. I'm sure he has all the facts at his fingertips.
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

[KeithNolan]

TO HISTORY STUDENT: I really don't have the energy to honor your request. When I first got involved with this website, I'd write endless essays about Kerry's service in Vietnam and his days with the VVAW. In response, I usually got one- or two-line putdowns by Greenhat, rambling personal attacks by someone called DevilDon, or a cartoon of the BS Meter by the Big Kahuna. Mr. Fagan and Mr. Boyle offered some real debate, but I never felt like they would directly address the issues I raised. All of us spent most of our time talking past each other when not talking down to each other. (For those newcomers who don't know what I'm going on about, check out my thread, "this website is fueled by lies and innuendo (part two)." Incidentally, "part one" apparently got deleted for unknown reasons.)

I'm not a fan of Senator Kerry, and don't agree with the philosophical underpinnings of the VVAW. It's fairly obvious, however, that Lieutenant Kerry earned the respect of his crewmen in Vietnam, and doesn't deserve to have his honorable combat service spit on by people enraged by his later anti-war activism. I've also spoken to enough Vietnam veterans over the years to understand the VVAW point of view, and am stunned that you guys feel so comfortable dismissing fellow combat veterans who came down on the opposite side of the political fence as nothing more than a collection of misfits, liars, frauds, traitors, and dupes who were somewhere being guided by the KGB.

So, no, at this point, I'm not going to get too wrapped up in this anymore. My personal opinion is that most of you guys are hardcore idealogues who want to paint the world in black-and-white tones, which is ludicrous in regards to a muddled, gray-shaded tragedy like the Vietnam War. I understand that the war produced many heroes. You guys act like it didn't also produce My Lai, Son Thang, and the Tiger Force.

So what would be the point of my expending a lot of verbiage on the Conason article? What, I'm going to change your mind about something? Doubtful. If the SBVFT has no response to his charges, so be it.

I just thought the folks checking in here should be aware of what Conason has to say about SBVFT, and (check out my previous thread) what James Webb has to say about Bush II.

Keith Nolan

[KeithNolan]

TO ASPB: regarding your comment: " I'll guarantee you one thing. We have honor and if the facts don't support the suspicions you won't hear about the 'in country' stuff."

Surely, you jest. Like I said, I'm not a fan of Senator Kerry. I never would have stuck my nose in all this if the message board at SBVFT didn't fester with lies about Lieutenant Kerry's in-country service in Vietnam. I've read threads charging that Kerry was an incompetent bungler who hid from battle; that his wounds were self-inflicted; that he was a war criminal who wantonly killed civilians; that he put himself in for the Silver and Bronze Stars he was eventually awarded; that he wasn't acting heroically when he charged a VC with a loaded RPG and dispatched him with his M16, but was actually a bloodthirsty psychotic that day who mercilessly executed an unarmed, helpless guerrilla who already had disabling wounds; and on and on and on.

You got any proof for these charge? Nope. Not a bit. It's fairly obvious that you guys detest the VVAW and are out to destroy the reputation of someone who served as the organization's spokesman after he returned from Vietnam. In other words, this website has little to do with honor or a search for the truth, and everything to do with politics and revenge.

Keith Nolan

[ASPB]

[coldwarvet]

Mr. Nolan

[ASPB]

[coldwarvet]

Alth

[DougReese]

Here we go again. You guys doing your best to turn someone who is(was?) pretty much anti-Kerry, into the Kerry camp.

He posts that article with the preface -- "Has the SBVFT issued any formal answer to this article by Joe Conason? If not, how about some informal responses from you guys (and I don't mean the typical shoot-the-messenger responses)? Thanks, Keith Nolan"

And what are your responses? Well, I guess you could say they were informal, but why all the venom at Keith Nolan . . . . again?

What is it in the article that you think isn't true? That SBVT/John O'Neill didn't hire an investigator? That he wasn't hired for the purpose(s) stated? That the info about the republican donor isn't true? . . . . . Am I missing anything?

Personally, I don't quite know what to think about them hiring the investigator. On the one hand, I stood there May 4th at that news conference and listened to them (I believe it was Adm. Huffman) state at the beginning that they weren't questioning Kerry's service, but what he did when he returned to the states.

And at the same time I was listening to him speak, I was reading the handout everyone there was given, which, well, questioned his service.

But back to the investigator . . . . I don't know what they think they're going to find out. For my little window of knowledge on one of his medals, all the ridiculous claims (the VC was alone, already grievously wounded, etc) have pretty much been put to rest.

For the Bronze Star incident, we have a Special Forces guy, a life long republican, to thank for telling us what happened that day.

Then there's the three Purple Hearts. The first one, to me, seems to qualify, but just barely.

And who is it the investigator is going to ask about these incidents? For the most part, his crew, right? What do you think they're going to say? What do you think I would say? We already know what Jim Rassmann would say.

So, when all is said and done, to the general public, the SBVT is going to look like they're vindictive, and grabbing at straws. Remember, to Joe Q. Public, Kerry was in combat. He was wounded in combat. And all the nitpicking in the world about whether a Purple Heart technically did or didn't qualify, whether or not his Silver Star/Bronze Star was deserved or not, is going to look like sour grapes. And this is especially true because so many people have come forward to say that the detractors to all these incidents are wrong. That Kerry was wounded. That the VC was very much alive, etc, etc.

In my opinion. if you want to go after Kerry, go after his record in the senate, or his anti-war days. Going after his service, while making your base happy as can be, is the road to nowhere with the vast majority of voters.

Doug

PS. And Keith Nolan is an author, and a respected one at that. As I said before, I know of him from a number of my VN vet friends. . . my anti-Kerry VN vet friends. While he doesn't have boots on the ground (grrrr), he has the greatest respect for VN vets, and has shown that in his work. Don't let your prejudice against Kerry blind you to those facts.

[ASPB]

[DougReese]

[ASPB]

Doug,

I hardly believe the following was "jumping on" him!