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84rules
Ensign
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 53
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 Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:54 pm Post subject: I have a question about the crews under John Kerry's command |
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I'm not trying to stir up anything, I'm just looking for information.
I've only been able to find one quote from a crewman who actually served on one of Kerry's boats. That person is Steven Gardner, who states the Kerry was indecisive and put the boat and crew in jeopardy. Are there any other crewmembers who have come forward to say anything about Kerry's performance?
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:34 am Post subject: Re: I have a question about the crews under John Kerry's com |
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| 84rules wrote: | I'm not trying to stir up anything, I'm just looking for information.
I've only been able to find one quote from a crewman who actually served on one of Kerry's boats. That person is Steven Gardner, who states the Kerry was indecisive and put the boat and crew in jeopardy. Are there any other crewmembers who have come forward to say anything about Kerry's performance? |
Yes, there are. All the remaining crew members (I believe there's about 11) support Kerry.
Doug |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:07 am Post subject: Re: I have a question about the crews under John Kerry's com |
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| DougReese wrote: | | 84rules wrote: | I'm not trying to stir up anything, I'm just looking for information.
I've only been able to find one quote from a crewman who actually served on one of Kerry's boats. That person is Steven Gardner, who states the Kerry was indecisive and put the boat and crew in jeopardy. Are there any other crewmembers who have come forward to say anything about Kerry's performance? |
Yes, there are. All the remaining crew members (I believe there's about 11) support Kerry.
Doug |
Oh you mean guys like Fred Short who after getting off the stage with Kerry at the convention said he was there when Kerry got shot and saw his blood on the deck? So Kerry's crew going to claim old Kerry was shot now eh? Damn the things these guys won't say to build Kerry into a war hereo.
Kerry has got to be paying these guys to lie on his behalf! |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: I have a question about the crews under John Kerry's com |
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| The bandit wrote: | | DougReese wrote: | | 84rules wrote: | I'm not trying to stir up anything, I'm just looking for information.
I've only been able to find one quote from a crewman who actually served on one of Kerry's boats. That person is Steven Gardner, who states the Kerry was indecisive and put the boat and crew in jeopardy. Are there any other crewmembers who have come forward to say anything about Kerry's performance? |
Yes, there are. All the remaining crew members (I believe there's about 11) support Kerry.
Doug |
Oh you mean guys like Fred Short who after getting off the stage with Kerry at the convention said he was there when Kerry got shot and saw his blood on the deck? So Kerry's crew going to claim old Kerry was shot now eh? Damn the things these guys won't say to build Kerry into a war hereo.
Kerry has got to be paying these guys to lie on his behalf! |
That's interesting. When was that? (When was Kerry supposed to have been shot/wounded that Short was there?)
I ask this because I believe Short was with the 94 boat for a fairly brief time -- beginning just before the Silver Star incident. I think he just arrived in-country, and replaced Alston right off the bat.
He wasn't with them for the March 13/Bronze Star/3rd Purple Heart incident, so when the heck could have he seen Kerry bleeding?
What did you hear him say, and when?
Doug |
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panther1505
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:04 pm Post subject: COMBAT SURGEON |
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I read an article in the Detroit News a while back. I can't recall exactly when I read it, but in the article a Vietnam Combat surgeon said that he treated Kerry for his 3rd wound, and that it was nothing worse than a superficial wound. It didn't even require any stitches to close it up.
And to sensationalize the story even further, one of Kerry's crew was quoted to say that Kerry himself lauched a grenade from an M79 grenade laucher toward shore, the grenade ricocheted off of a rock, send a small piece of his own shrapnel into his arm.
The story sounded to me like another of Kerry's reenactments.
What do you think?
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Mike Davis
Warren, Mich.
82nd Airborne Division
CSC 1/505th Airborne Infantry
1980 - 1983 |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: COMBAT SURGEON |
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| panther1505 wrote: | I read an article in the Detroit News a while back. I can't recall exactly when I read it, but in the article a Vietnam Combat surgeon said that he treated Kerry for his 3rd wound, and that it was nothing worse than a superficial wound. It didn't even require any stitches to close it up.
And to sensationalize the story even further, one of Kerry's crew was quoted to say that Kerry himself lauched a grenade from an M79 grenade laucher toward shore, the grenade ricocheted off of a rock, send a small piece of his own shrapnel into his arm.
The story sounded to me like another of Kerry's reenactments.
What do you think? |
Kerry has always said that all of his wounds were superficial. No news there.
You are describing his first wound, not his third.
There were no re-enactments, just a journalist that doesn't know how to write.
Doug |
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rbshirley
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: COMBAT SURGEON |
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| DougReese wrote: | | There were no re-enactments, just a journalist that doesn't know how to write. |
Oh I think that jounalist knows how to write extremely well. And did so in an
insightful piece that caught the essence of a man who seems to be continually
lost in a fantasy re-enactment world of supposed glories thirty five years ago.
Pehaps instead of calling it the "Re-invention Convention," a more fitting name
would have been "Welcome to Michael's and John F Junior's Fantasy World"
http://www.hillnews.com/york/022604.aspx
| Byron York wrote: |
John Kerry: Stuck in a Vietnam-era time warp
Why does Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) talk incessantly about Vietnam?
Obviously, it has given him a great political advantage in past campaigns,
and he hopes it will do the same in his race for the White House.
But there might be another reason. Perhaps more than any other
presidential candidate in recent memory, Kerry seems to be living in
another time, playing a movie of Vietnam over and over in his mind.
In fact, he is often playing an actual movie of Vietnam over and over on
his television.
Consider this scene from a remarkable profile of Kerry published in the
Boston Globe in October 1996, when Kerry was in a tough re-election
battle.
Kerry told reporter Charles Sennott the oft-repeated story of the February
1969 firefight in which Kerry attacked the Viet Cong who ambushed his
Swift boat.
Kerry won the Silver Star, as well as a Purple Heart, for his efforts.
But the story wasn’t about the firefight itself. It was also Kerry’s reaction to it.
The future senator was so “focused on his future ambitions,” Sennott
reported, that he bought a Super-8 movie camera, returned to the scene,
and re-enacted the skirmish on film.
It was that film, transferred to videotape, that Kerry played for Sennott.
“I’ll show you where they shot from. See? That’s the hole covered up with
reeds,” Kerry said as he ran the tape in slow motion.
Kerry told Sennott that his decision to re-enact the fight on film was no big
deal — “just something I did, no great meaning to it.” But it’s clear that the
old movie is a huge deal.
“Through hours of watching the films in the den of his newly renovated
Beacon Hill mansion, it becomes apparent that these are memories and
footage he returns to often,” Sennott wrote.
“Kerry jumps repeatedly from the couch to adjust the Sony large-screen
TV in his home entertainment center, making sure the picture is clear, the
color correct. He fast forwards, rewinds and freeze-frames the footage. His
running commentary — vivid, sometimes touching, sometimes self-serving
— never misses a beat.”
In John Kerry’s home entertainment center, it’s always 1969. It’s
sometimes that way in his campaign, too.
Is Kerry’s the only campaign to play Jimi Hendrix — specifically, “Fire”
from the 1967 album “Are You Experienced?” — at rallies?
Other candidates — like John Edwards, with his theme song, John
Mellencamp’s “Small Town” — aren’t exactly cutting-edge, but they have
chosen somewhat newer stuff.
And what about the music on Kerry’s bus? Before the Iowa caucuses,
Washington Post reporter Ceci Connelly described the candidate hanging
out on the bus with Peter Yarrow, his old antiwar friend from Peter, Paul,
and Mary.
“Pedro, sing us a song,” Kerry ordered one day. Yarrow picked up a guitar
and began to play and sing — and later waxed nostalgic about the antiwar
rallies he attended way back when with Kerry and Sen. Eugene McCarthy.
Earlier, Connelly wrote, when Yarrow sang “Puff the Magic Dragon” at an
event in a private home in Ames, Iowa, “Kerry lifted his fingers to his
mouth for a quick take on an imaginary joint. You can almost see his thick
mane of silver hair returning to the shaggy brown do of those days.”
Even Kerry’s latest sound bite, the speech in Ohio on Tuesday in which he
described President Bush as a “walking contradiction,” was apparently a
reference to the old days.
In this case, it was Kris Kristofferson’s “The Pilgrim, Chapter 33 “ from
1970, with its line, “He’s a walking contradiction, partly truth and partly fiction.”
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John Kerry is indeed "a walking contridiction, partly truth and partly fiction"
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: COMBAT SURGEON |
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| rbshirley wrote: | | DougReese wrote: | | There were no re-enactments, just a journalist that doesn't know how to write. |
Oh I think that jounalist knows how to write extremely well. And did so in an
insightful piece that caught the essence of a man who seems to be continually
lost in a fantasy re-enactment world of supposed glories thirty five years ago.
Pehaps instead of calling it the "Re-invention Convention," a more fitting name
would have been "Welcome to Michael's and John F Junior's Fantasy World"
http://www.hillnews.com/york/022604.aspx
| Byron York wrote: |
[b]John Kerry: Stuck in a Vietnam-era time warp
Why does Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) talk incessantly about Vietnam?
Obviously, it has given him a great political advantage in past campaigns,
and he hopes it will do the same in his race for the White House.
But there might be another reason. Perhaps more than any other
presidential candidate in recent memory, Kerry seems to be living in
another time, playing a movie of Vietnam over and over in his mind.
In fact, he is often playing an actual movie of Vietnam over and over on
his television.
Consider this scene from a remarkable profile of Kerry published in the
Boston Globe in October 1996, when Kerry was in a tough re-election
battle.
Kerry told reporter Charles Sennott the oft-repeated story of the February
1969 firefight in which Kerry attacked the Viet Cong who ambushed his
Swift boat.
Kerry won the Silver Star, as well as a Purple Heart, for his efforts.
But the story wasn’t about the firefight itself. It was also Kerry’s reaction to it.
The future senator was so “focused on his future ambitions,” Sennott
reported, that he bought a Super-8 movie camera, returned to the scene,
and re-enacted the skirmish on film.
It was that film, transferred to videotape, that Kerry played for Sennott.
“I’ll show you where they shot from. See? That’s the hole covered up with
reeds,” Kerry said as he ran the tape in slow motion.
Kerry told Sennott that his decision to re-enact the fight on film was no big
deal — “just something I did, no great meaning to it.” But it’s clear that the
old movie is a huge deal.
“Through hours of watching the films in the den of his newly renovated
Beacon Hill mansion, it becomes apparent that these are memories and
footage he returns to often,” Sennott wrote.
“Kerry jumps repeatedly from the couch to adjust the Sony large-screen
TV in his home entertainment center, making sure the picture is clear, the
color correct. He fast forwards, rewinds and freeze-frames the footage. His
running commentary — vivid, sometimes touching, sometimes self-serving
— never misses a beat.”
In John Kerry’s home entertainment center, it’s always 1969. It’s
sometimes that way in his campaign, too.
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John Kerry is indeed "a walking contridiction, partly truth and partly fiction"
. |
I snipped the portion of the article not directly connected to the film in the interest of brevity.
The journalist I was refering to was Sennott. York's article was based on Sennott's article -- which is to say York has never seen the film.
And by the way Mr. York, Kerry didn't get the Purple Heart for the same action as the Silver Star.
York repeats the false statements from Sennott's article. First of all, that Kerry went out and bought that camera (he had it since the beginning of his tour, in Cam Ranh) and then came back to in order to film what he had done.
Then he says Kerry returned to the scene of that incident some days later. He didn't -- At least not to film (we were back in that area March 13). The filming he did do was almost certainly done minutes after the Feb 28 incident occured.
Why don't you pull up Bill Keller's comments on all this. He badmouthed Kerry after reading Sennott's sloppily written piece. Then he saw the film himself. He changed his tune and said that Kerry's hardly in it, much less re-enacting anything.
Doug |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: I have a question about the crews under John Kerry's com |
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| DougReese wrote: | That's interesting. When was that? (When was Kerry supposed to have been shot/wounded that Short was there?)
I ask this because I believe Short was with the 94 boat for a fairly brief time -- beginning just before the Silver Star incident. I think he just arrived in-country, and replaced Alston right off the bat.
He wasn't with them for the March 13/Bronze Star/3rd Purple Heart incident, so when the heck could have he seen Kerry bleeding?
What did you hear him say, and when?
Doug |
I think Short was with him just once, because the 94 was off for the first week in March. The 94 pulled fuel bladders up the river 2 days later (U-HAUL) and it was idle till the 10th.
On Kerry's web site personal page he has 3 bios of himself, one bio describes him taking a bullet to the leg. I wrote the contact for the site a year ago or so ago asking about that and stated that it was inaccurate but they never responded or removed it.
Now Short is out selling a bullet wound I shouldn't be surprised.
"I was there when Sen. Kerry got shot, and I've seen his blood on the deck of a swift boat. And I can assure you it's American red, and there's not a speck of blue in that blood," said Fred Short, 56, of Little Rock, Ark.
These guys will say anything on cue for Kerry even if it is an out right bold-face lie.
http://www.postherald.com/nw073004.shtml |
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rbshirley
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: COMBAT SURGEON |
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| DougReese wrote: | | Kerry's hardly in it, much less re-enacting anything. |
Nice try at deflecting discussion away from the significance of the article.
Stating the obvious: It is not relevant what, who, where, when, how etc
the film clip was made. What is insightful is Kerry's obsession with, and
his play-acting use of, the tape. Even to this day, thirty five years later
at the Democratic National Convention.
-- Large digitized version of an 8mm film on his entertainment center
-- Animated emphasis to visitors of minute details: "See the hole"
-- Constant action repetitions, stop action, reverse action, etc
-- Constantly adjusting the picture to make the scenes look better
-- Hours of watching the same tape over and over
'His running commentary — vivid, sometimes touching, sometimes self
serving — never misses a beat.”
"In John Kerry’s home entertainment center, it’s always 1969"
Now that is an excellent description of a "fantasy re-enactment"
It also tells you something important about his qualifications & character.
Do we really want someone as President who continues to fantasize about
his war experiences and has tried to hide his more signifcant, despicable
activities defaming this country and aiding and abetting our enemies?
John Kerry's meetings with the North Vietnamese, his false claims of atrocities,
his strong avocation of the surrender terms of an enemy of the United States,
and the subsequent dire consequences for the people of South East Asia are
NOT fantasies and need to be brought to the attention of the electorate as
they decide who is qualified to be Commander-in-Chief of the United States
of America during this time of war.
. |
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panther1505
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:52 pm Post subject: MAKE ME SICK |
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I can't stomach to read another lie about John Kerry. He flip flops about anything and everything. I believe that his first response to any question is to lie. He was part of the 90% who voted for the war in Iraq, now that he's running for President of the United States, he's against it. He voted for the 87 billion dollar defense budget, before he voted against it. And when he was filming the reenactments of his "enemy engagements" he told someone (I can't recall who) that he wouldn't use them for political gain. But yet, he is at least mentioning the Vietnam war every chance that he can get, FOR POLITICAL GAIN.
EVEN THOUGH HE HAD THE AUDACITY TO SHOOT HIS MOUTH OFF AND DEGRADE THE BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN WHO WENT AS FAR AS TO GIVE THEIR LIVES FOR US.
I work with a Vietnam Air Force F-111/OV-10 pilot. He and I talk quite a bit about the military in general. No just Vietnam, or war. But of different aircraft, different weapons.
But he (I'll call him Bill for conversation) has told me that something stinks to high heaven when it comes to John Kerry's Silver Star, and his Purple Hearts.
Bill has been off on a medical leave for the past 2 weeks, so I'll ask you, whoever would like to answer.
How do you earn a Silver Star?
I've been told that in order to earn a Silver Star, you have to go above and beyond the call of duty, short of giving your life for a fellow soldier.
Is that true?
P.S. I would like to thank all of you who served in Vietnam. Even though I am a peace time vet. I am very proud to have served, and I am very proud of those who have served for us and those who are serving now, for us.
I don't think that you (Vietnam Vets) hear or have heard it enough.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR SERVICE.
_________________
Mike Davis
Warren, Mich.
82nd Airborne Division
CSC 1/505th Airborne Infantry
1980 - 1983 |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: I have a question about the crews under John Kerry's com |
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| The bandit wrote: | | DougReese wrote: | That's interesting. When was that? (When was Kerry supposed to have been shot/wounded that Short was there?)
I ask this because I believe Short was with the 94 boat for a fairly brief time -- beginning just before the Silver Star incident. I think he just arrived in-country, and replaced Alston right off the bat.
He wasn't with them for the March 13/Bronze Star/3rd Purple Heart incident, so when the heck could have he seen Kerry bleeding?
What did you hear him say, and when?
Doug |
I think Short was with him just once, because the 94 was off for the first week in March. The 94 pulled fuel bladders up the river 2 days later (U-HAUL) and it was idle till the 10th.
On Kerry's web site personal page he has 3 bios of himself, one bio describes him taking a bullet to the leg. I wrote the contact for the site a year ago or so ago asking about that and stated that it was inaccurate but they never responded or removed it.
Now Short is out selling a bullet wound I shouldn't be surprised.
"I was there when Sen. Kerry got shot, and I've seen his blood on the deck of a swift boat. And I can assure you it's American red, and there's not a speck of blue in that blood," said Fred Short, 56, of Little Rock, Ark.
These guys will say anything on cue for Kerry even if it is an out right bold-face lie.
http://www.postherald.com/nw073004.shtml |
He, he, he sure said it -- and it couldn't be true! Which is to say Kerry didn't get shot, nor does it seem that Short was there when he did get wounded.
Seems like he got, umm, a little carried away.
But yes, there was that Operation U-haul thing between Feb 28 and March 13 -- I don't remember when they did that, other than remembering that it did occur. We had Seabees in the village building living quarters for the Seal team.
I had no idea that Short wasn't there for March 13 other than he told me so a couple of weeks ago.
Doug |
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waltjones
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 392
Location: 'bout 40 miles north of Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:57 pm Post subject: Short the liar |
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So, Doug, since you won't ever answer my questions about why you support a man with no honor; a man who mocked the Iwo Jima memorial; a man who negotiated with our enemies - by his own admission - in a time of war; and worst, a man who horribly slandered his comrades-in-arms .... answer me this: is Short a liar? How many other lies have the few vets who support Kerry been telling? Of course, you wouldn't know that, would you? Perhaps your time could be better spent monitoring what THEY say instead of us ... but that wouldn't fit in your "Kerry no matter what" plans, would it? You say this site is political, yet you are the one who won't answer my questions; explain how you can support such a slimeball!!!
Semper Fi!
_________________
Walt Jones (USMC, '65 - '69) It says much about the person who defends a man with no honor. |
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panther1505
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:49 pm Post subject: I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW |
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Doug,
I would like to know how anyone, especially anyone who formerly served, or is currently serving in the military, can support John Kerry. Who in my opinion, and that's one thing that I love about this country, I can have my own opinion, he is not only a traitor to his commrades in arms, but he is also a bold faced liar.
How can you support someone who flip flops more than a fish out of water.
He voted for the war in Iraq. Now that he is running for President of the United states, he is against it.
By John Kerry's own admission, he voted for the 87 billion dollar military budget increase, before he voted against it.
He voted to decrease the intelligence community budget by (I can't recall the exact amount), something to the effect of 4 billion dollars, but yet he is now saying, more or less that our intelligence community is in shambles
One year ago, John Kerry said that, "Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction are a threat, and they must be eliminated."
And now he is saying that Saddam Hussein never had weapons of mass destruction.
Doug,
I don't know what branch of the military you served in, but when I was in the 82nd Airborne, and we went through NBC (Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical, for those of you who don't know), we were told that chemical weapons ARE weapons of mass destruction.
Back in 1991, when the United States unfortunately pulled our troops out prematurely, the poor towns people of, I believe it was Basra, were seen and filmed attempting to flee from a chemical weapon that was deployed against them, by Chemical Ali, upon the orders of Saddam Hussein himself. If you saw, like I did, and like I'm sure many other people have seen, a very large number of those towns people did not outrun that chemical, and the streets were strewn with corpses. As a matter of fact, that film footage was shown on at least one of Detroits local news stations just about a couple of months ago or so.
How can you support someone whose first response to any question put to him, or those who support him, is to lie.
For example.
Theresa Heinz Kerry, while giving a speech recently used the term UNAMERICAN. THE SPEECH WAS VIDEO TAPED.
When a newspaper reporter approached her and asked her what she meant by UNAMERICAN. Theresa Heinz Kerry claimed that she didn't say that. When the reporter told her that it was on tape, and he was just wondering what she meant by UNAMERICAN, she blew up, said she did not say that, and then INAPPROPRIATELY told the reporter to SHOVE IT.
As I said, THERESA HEINZ KERRY IS ON VIDEO TAPE, USING THE TERM UNAMERICAN.
John Kerry went on television and said that his wife speaks her mind,
APPROPRIATELY.
CAN ANYONE HONESTLY SAY TO ME THAT IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR A POSSIBLE FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES TO PUBLICLY TELL SOMEONE TO SHOVE IT?
GOD HELP THIS COUNTRY IF JOHN KERRY GETS ELECTED.
_________________
Mike Davis
Warren, Mich.
82nd Airborne Division
CSC 1/505th Airborne Infantry
1980 - 1983 |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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As the mother of a young sailor, I know that part of the reason for Kerry having any kind of support among active duty members is ignorance of what Kerry has done to his own generation of soldiers and of Kerry's record with the SSC on POW/MIA affairs and of his Senate voting record, in general.
I have done my best to educate my son, who has in turn passed the news on to his shipmates. All are apparently completely unaware of Kerry's history.
Then, too, as is probably true in any generation, there is an element of disagreement with the mission, with the desk-jockeys, disenchantment with the military in general. (We used to say that a b****in' sailor was a happy sailor - probably true in all branches? And every corporation in America, along with them?  )
The people deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq were often extended well past their projected rotation dates and that's tough on morale - with some individuals more than others, of course - and the media tends to give their attention to these individuals more than the ones who are continuing to just do their jobs and believe in their mission, their military service and their leadership.
I have not found that this disappointment has converted into widespread discontent with the military, and in fact, the soldiers I hear from tell me they'll just suck it up and move on, just like their grandfathers did. They remain committed to what they're accomplishing in these countries and aware of the historical implications of their missions.
Educating those who don't know how Kerry has acted in the past, how he has voted against them in more recent history - this is vital to adding to these service members' perceptions so that they can make an educated choice.
The press continues to refer to Kerry as a "highly decorated Vietnam war hero"... that's going to be hard to overcome.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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