SwiftVets.com

ArogantMan · Seaman Recruit Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 6

Fellow Vets:

I want to clarify my original post. [Removed. All comments made against the Swiftvets will be removed]

This advertisment will surly backfire as well as that upcoming book. I don't see how we win with this. You have two swift boat crews that directly served with Kerry, and a Green Beret Officer who had his life saved by Kerry. They think he is the best "CO" since George Washington became a platoon commander. Every officer in that advertisment that I have seen and who has appeared on television (other than Hannity & Colmes"), has been made to look like they all have ulterior motives for being in that ad. Even O'Reilly condemns it.

I don't believe you had a problem with him when he was in Vietnam, but I think you now have a problem because of the 1972 hearings. I also think you you all have a short memory because at that time over 60% of the American people wanted out of that mess. I watched those hearings and Kerry never once directly accused anyone of atrocities. Although I and anyone else who served on the ground long enough know some of them existed as I am sure you did.

In addition, this upcoming election has polarized us in a way no other election has before.

I am a Vietnam Veteran, who has been shot at like most of you. I lost friends there. I never joined the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, but I wish I had. It had to end and you all know it.

Where I break ranks with the rest of you, is that I will not tarnish our service by publicly disrespecting another Vietnam Veteran for any reason. The memory of my friends, my brother's service, and all of our service in that god damn war trancends mere politics, and everything else for that matter.

I sincerely apologize to my fellow veterans if I offended anyone, but I stand by what I said.

[Removed. Your service to your country is greatly appreciated. However, disparaging remarks about Swiftvets or their efforts will be removed]

B. DeLong USMC
RVN 1969-70

RNO · Seaman Recruit Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 20

Who are you to be calling these vets traitors..If your a vet then I really feel sorry for you but in my opinion your not...I will play nice but it sure is hard..I know its better not to respond but this goes way over the line..
_________________
POW's Never Have A Nice Day

Dabba55 · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:54 pm Post subject:

Arrogant Man:

Let me sincerely ask you: if these officers who served with Kerry (i.e. not merely in the same theater but lived, ate, bunked with Kerry) are telling the truth, why won't Sen. Kerry release all the paperwork surrounding the controversy? He told Tim Russert he would, then didn't. If these men are lying, why do THEY want the complete records released?

What they are charging is nothing short of fraud, sir. Kerry asks that he be judged by his record, let it then be seen.

Finally, if Kerry doesn't put this to rest, his presidency will be under seige. Too many voices have been stirred. It does not cast ill on other vets for Kerry to face the facts of his record, except perhaps those vets who covered up for him when the stakes today are so high: the war on terror.

These Swift vets not only have a right to be heard, if they are telling the truth, they are once again, doing honorable service to their country.

republicanveteran · Commander Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 333 Location: Texas

Dabba5. You stated that 60% of the country did not support the efforts during the Vietnam war.

History has proved that the war dissenters were wrong. The citizens of Vietnam today wish we had won that war. The only country that is worse of is North Korea.

rbshirley · Founder Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 394

Marine4life · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject:

You state that you will not disrespect any Vietnam Vets so you part with us. Well thank you for disrespecting us. If you don't agree then keep it to yourself. I don't appreciate you allowing a traitor to run for CIC, if you are a Vietnam Vet!! Maybe we served in a different Marine Corps, I don't think so but we were all taught to take care of our own and that includes discipline. We weeded out the bad apples, and Kerry is a major bad apple. So stand by us or stand by the lone ranger. Semper Fi.
_________________
Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes.

kurtsprincess · Seaman Apprentice Joined: 15 Jun 2004 Posts: 80

KeithNolan · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:14 pm Post subject:

Barry DeLong's language might be intemperate. Even I (Cut & Paste Spam Deleted by admin) don't think you guys are traitors.

Admin note:

Mr. Nolan...

Your next negative characterization of either the membership of this forum or the forum itself will be your last.

Thank you

Language aside, Barry DeLong hits the nail on the head. By spitting on John Kerry's medals, you folks are really spitting on all the medals earned by those who fought in Vietnam.

By railing at John Kerry's testimony to the Senate, you folks are ignoring the fact that Vietnam was a frustrating guerrilla war in which atrocities were bound to take place, and pretending that General Westmoreland's search-and-destroy strategy wasn't as brutal as it was counterproductive. It's a documented fact that acting on orders from Westmoreland's headquarters, U.S. units burned thousands of villages in Vietnam between 1965-68, produced tens of thousands of civilian casualties and hundreds of thousands of refugees, and drove the rural population into the arms of the Viet Cong.

By slandering the VVAW, you folks ignore what that organization accomplished in terms of veterans rights and benefits.

Vietnam was a long, ugly, and terribly mismanaged war that left veterans divided about what it all meant. John Kerry had as much right to turn against the war, as the veterans here have the right to embrace the rightness of the war.

Isn't it about time to cool all the vet-on-vet bashing that goes on here? (Cut & Paste Spam Deleted by admin) Now you also refer to veterans like Jim Rassman and those former crewmen who support Kerry as liars, hired guns, and brainwashed dupes.

Enough already!

Still around,
Keith Nolan

Dave Rittiford · Seaman Recruit Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 20

Mr. Nolan, with all due respect how stupid do you think the average American is?

John Kerry throws his Medals away in protest, then has them on his wall and sleeve thirty years later? and the Swift Vets are the ones spitting on the decorations..... come off it... I'll tell you what, I'm not that stupid.

If you are aware of Kerry's senate testimony,
then you are aware he has admitted much of it was false, thus defamatory and traitorous to his fellow soldiers still in the battle zone.

Have you ever heard the Winter Soldier testimony? Who do you think you're fooling.

You would also be aware that John McCain among many others have stated
Kerry's antics were the most damaging thing done to them in eight years of
daily torture?

Mr. Nolan who are you kidding? You might find a couple of people you may persuade but I doubt it seriously. My pet rock has more brains than you give me credit for......... leapin lizards!!

Kerry never Lied???????????

askmrbill

ArogantMan,

I'm a 58 year old USAF Veteran who enlisted in 1968 and was honorably discharged in 1972. I did not serve in VietNam but was stationed in the region for 18 months. I am a registered Republican and have been since I changed from an independent to support Richard Nixon. I have three adult son's and daughter. My youngest son enlisted in the Navy and served as an Aviation Electronics Specialist on the P3. He is now a pilot for U.S. Air at 26 years old.

I consider myself somewhat conservative but have become more moderate in my views as I get older. I appreciate your comments in this sincere attempt to make your position understood. After seeing the commercial calling Kerry a liar, I wanted to learn more about the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth", so I came to their website. I have read their organization overview and many of the postings in various topic threads. I'm sensing that whatever my opinion is I will come off as a "flaming liberal, tree hugging, unpatriotic, Bush basher, unamerican, pinko, traitor".

There is obviously a strong military presence represented in this Forum with many years of military experience and service to their country contributing to the opinions. As a Veteran, what saddens me is the hostility and hatred expressed between fellow servicemen who have all served their country....whatever their role, contribution, actions, feelings, or beliefs. We are all "Americans", yet not all Veterans are citizens. We have veterans who can't vote (citizenship), and we have veterans that don't vote....what is wrong with this picture?

I have two brother-in-laws that served in the Army and fought in VieNam. Both of them had their young adulthood taken from them. They both have lived with lifelong medical issues, alcohol and drug dependency, have never voted, and in general left for war and never came back. Was this John Kerry's fault or has George Bush done anything to make their lives and those of their loved ones better. No!

Why did over 50,000 troops die in VietNam. Why were all of the physically and medically wounded necessary? Was it to fight the threat of communisim? If so, the Soviet's or the Chinese? If our threat then was communists why are we not threatened by China and Korea? If they have nukes and other WMD's and they are communists, why is trade with their countries our number one priority? Don't you VietNam vets feel betrayed here?

In the last four years the "Communist Threat" has taken on a new name, "The war on Terrorism". We invaded Iraq because they had WMD's that threatend our society. We've lost nearly 1,000 of our brave men and women, and have an unknown number of physically and mentally wounded return to duty or private life. The history of five Republican administrations and two Democratic adminstrations since VietNam has been that we abandon our troops after they have served honorably, bravely, and at great sacrifice. Before any veteran votes for any candidate in November, they should ask themselves "am I, my father, and my grandfather as veterans" better off today than I was when I was honorably discharged. The answer is no and we should start demanding an answer from both of the candidates...if we are really for the "truth".

My final comment is an appeal to the military historians on this forum to enlighten all of us on how we got into the mess in Iraq. It is my understanding that the US involvment in the country goes back to the 1960's when we were supporting the Baath Partys fight against the "leftist" threat in an effort to make the country a democracy. The brutallity, assasinations, prisoner abuse, and innocent civilian deaths has been going on there with the US involved for years. Whether the US was involved in covert activities helping Sadaam reach power, assisting with the development of WMD's that we went back to remove, economic assistance as a 'favored nation", the Persion Gulf war, and now their so called liberation. We have American fighting men and women giving their lives in Iraq, quite possibly dying because of weaponry we provided to that country's leadership and terrorists around the world.

I support any organization that is for the truth and I hope for the benefit of all veterans future, past, and present that your members not only demand the truth, but agressively pursue it. The safety and well being of our military depends solely on the unity and strength of the Veterans. The politicians win when Veterans are split apart and as I see it from the disrespect shown in many of the postings here....they have us exactly where they want us.

Maybe you should consider an ad that is non-partisan that addresses the failed promises and legislation of the seven administrations, the House, and Senate since the VietNam war. If we have to fight a war, let the military fight it, not the politicians. Let's get truthful about why Veteran benefits aren't a priority and why tax dollars have gone overseas for 40 years to support countries that don't like us.

This forum's position on removing any posting that is derogatory towards a "Truth" member seems to be in conflict with your position on "first amendment rights" of free speech? You have a problem with your commercial being censored or not played, yet you reserve the right to remove remarks you consider derogatory. I commend you for removing offensive, personel attacks and this should apply to any posting, whether they are a member or not.

Truth for peace, prosperity, and Veterans UNITY.

KeithNolan · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:44 pm Post subject:

TO DAVE RITTFORD: yes, I'm familiar with the Winter Soldier Investigation held in Detroit in 1971. Those veterans that testified there have been slammed here as liars, frauds, traitors, and dupes of the KGB. I wish someone would finally identify the frauds by name. And I wish someone would tell me what they were lying about. Nothing was said in Detroit that hasn't been documented in the court-martial record of the war, or which hasn't shown up in memoirs written by Vietnam veterans.

KWN

LewWaters · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:47 pm Post subject:

Keith, since you are a learned scholar, I'm surprised you haven't read Stolen valor. Much of what you request is written in it.
_________________
Clark County Conservative

waltjones · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:53 pm Post subject: Just like you ....

They were all frauds, and will remain so until they provide proof, in open court, of their ridiculous accusations. If I accuse my neighbor of child predation, it is incumbent upon me to prove my accusation. If I don't, my peers will consider me to be a fraud and a liar - just like Kerry and his Winter Soldiers; not one of their accusations - out of hundreds - was ever substantiated. What's that make you, Nolan? Thatisall ....
_________________
Walt Jones (USMC, '65 - '69) It says much about the person who defends a man with no honor.

KeithNolan · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:13 pm Post subject:

TO LEWWATERS: yes, I've read STOLEN VALOR. Problem is that the author names one phony (Al Hubbard) who was with the VVAW in 1970-71, but does not name a single one of the supposedly dozens of phonies who testified in Detroit in 1971. The author also opines that seventy-percent of those who joined the VVAW's Dewey Canyon III protest in D.C. were phonies. He doesn't offer a shred of evidence to back up this charge.

The Nixon Administration did its best to discredit the VVAW in 1971, including releasing Al Hubbard's military records to the press to show that he distorted his rank and the extent of his service. If the VVAW really had been full of fake veterans, Nixon, Colson, and Buchanan would have told us all about it in 1971.

KWN

LewWaters · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:18 pm Post subject:

Goota go get my haircut, Keith, but best I remember, you are wrong on what Burkett and others have revealed about Kerry's anti-war band of brothers.
_________________
Clark County Conservative