SwiftVets.com Forum Index SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Vietnam Protesters Fall Silent

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SwiftVets.com Forum Index -> Geedunk & Scuttlebutt
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
shawa
CNO


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:19 am    Post subject: Vietnam Protesters Fall Silent Reply with quote

On the 30th anniversary of the fall of Saigon, an important TRUTH and a tragedy that we won't see in the American MSM.

It is amazing to me that so many people don't know that we actually WON
the war before John Kerry et al LOST it with their lies and propaganda.

From The Australian, a former refugee tells the TRUE story.

www.theaustralian.news.com

Quote:
Quynh Dao: Vietnam protesters fall silent
April 29, 2005

MANY myths and half-truths about the Vietnam War whipped up by the communist propaganda machine have been allowed to persist unchecked in discourse about Iraq. Today, on the eve of the 30th anniversary of the fall of Saigon, perhaps some lessons can be learned from this painful chapter in history.

A point of view held by the anti-Vietnam War movement in the 1960s and still taken as fact by some people today is that the Vietnam War was a civil war, not one fomented or directed by the communist north, which, in turn, was being instructed by China.

With that belief, the anti-Vietnam War movement denounced US involvement in Vietnam as an act of interference. The Vietnamese Communist Party's official biography on leader Ho Chi Minh and the Chinese Communist Party confirms that the communists in the north received instruction from China and were supported by the rest of the communist bloc with aid to foment the war and to spread Marxist-Leninist ideology.

The Vietnam War should thus be seen, rightly, as a fight to preserve freedom and democracy by the people of South Vietnam against communist invasion.

The anti-war movement supported the National Front for the Liberation of South Vietnam (the Vietcong) portrayed by communist sympathisers in the West as independent from Hanoi. Party documents now reveal it was a product of the north.

As such, members of the anti-Vietnam War movement let themselves be deceived by the communists. Some influential people in the West, wittingly or not, abetted the communists in their deception.

Novelist Graham Greene wrote The Quiet American in 1955 in which he denounced the US and South Vietnam as engaged in acts of terrorism against the Vietnamese people. He could not provide any verifiable detail about one such alleged incident which he asserted was true.

At the time Greene wrote, thousands of people in the north were slaughtered in the so-called land-reform campaign initiated by Ho Chi Minh under the directives of Chinese advisers. Greene was happy to ignore that campaign.

Noam Chomsky, the leading anti-war intellectual, vowed "to speak the truth and to expose lies" as a reason for his pro-Vietnamese communist stand. As he made this passionate avowal, North Vietnamese poet Nguyen Chi Thien was imprisoned for doing just that, writing the truth about the communists. Nguyen was imprisoned for 27 years.

The Western media turned what was a military success on the part of the non-communist forces in the south to a political victory for the communists. The Tet Offensive of 1968 was an unmitigated disaster for Hanoi. Yet it was pictures of US carnage that were publicised to a war-weary audience.

The media also relayed ad nauseam the picture of a South Vietnamese soldier shooting a Vietcong, in civilian clothing. The message was loud and clear -- this is the kind of atrocity that the South Vietnamese army did to their own people, with the backing of the US. The Western media did not report the massacre of 4000 unarmed civil servants and civilians in the city of Hue, committed by the communists.


Nguyen Ngoc Loan, the South Vietnamese officer in the picture, passed away in 1998. Neil Davis, the Australian war correspondent killed on assignment in Thailand, set out the background to the killing when interviewed for David Bradbury's 1980 documentary Frontline. The Vietcong shot by Loan had, not long before this picture was taken, led a team of communist terrorists who killed the family of a South Vietnamese officer, including his 80-year-old mother, his wife and his children. How often is his background explained?

Following their victory in 1975, the communists, hailed as liberators by their sympathisers, put more than 1million people in concentration camps, appropriated property, nationalised all means of production, evicted people from their homes and stripped people of their savings. Before the end of the war, South Vietnam was at par with other developing countries in the region. Now, after 30 years of "liberation", Vietnam ranks with the poorest and most corrupt countries in the world.

After 30 years of peace, intellectuals, artists, Buddhist monks, Catholic priests, tribal people, even communist war heroes, are subject to arrest, torture, harassment and imprisonment for peacefully demanding freedom and democracy.

What is occurring in Vietnam sparks protests from human rights organisations around the world. Amid all of these voices of protest, the deadening silence from the anti-war camp is telling. Those who supported the communists still refuse to see the stark evidence.

It was the pressure from the anti-war elite that forced the US administration to pull troops out of Vietnam. The hasty US retreat made South Vietnam prey to a ruthless enemy still fat with Soviet largesse and left behind it a trail of indescribable human suffering culminating in the boat people tragedy.

Are we going to let this happen to Iraq? Troop withdrawal should be a process that happens gradually to allow the precious new democracy in Iraq time to build up its national security and strengthen its governing institutions in the face of fundamentalist savagery.

Building a democracy is a long process. While 80 million Vietnamese people are now doomed in slavery, the chances for the Iraqi people to live in a society that respects freedom and is based on the rule of law is within reach.

Quynh Dao is a member of the Australian-Vietnam Human Rights Committee and a former refugee.

_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin


Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now there's an article that needs broad dissemination.

It's bigger than a "sound bite." It requires thought and attention, so getting it to a larger audience would be difficult.

And unfortunately, there is such a divide in the country that only the choir will hear this particularly poignant song. Sad

Getting past the built-in resistance to anything that challenges their anti-war view puts it out of the realm of comprehension by the people who need most to hear it.

You can hear the longing in this man's voice. The Iraqi's are getting in three years what so many millions have died for and not received in thirty years in Vietnam. (And are not likely to get in thirty more. Sad )
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
shawa
CNO


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You can hear the longing in this man's voice. The Iraqi's are getting in three years what so many millions have died for and not received in thirty years in Vietnam. (And are not likely to get in thirty more.)


Profoundly spoken, EJ.

My heart breaks for the Vietnamese people.
I will never forget when Kerry debated John O'Neill, saying only a few
thousand Vietnamese might die if we pulled out!!! (make that millions!!)
To think what a good life they could be living had we held on to the VICTORY our soldiers fought and died for!
Not one of those war protesters can dare say today that the people
of Vietnam are better off for having been abandoned.
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LewWaters
Admin


Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many times, in the run up to the Iraq war, Viet Nam came up. Whenever I would make the claims stated in the article or mention Vo Nguyen Giaps claims as to how they won the war to the anti-war left, I was usually met with, "That's just one mans opinion."

They will cling to the propaganda to justify their cowardice, but when the same people that sent out the propaganda mention how they manipulated the left on our streets, it's only one mans opinion.

Like you said, N3, we sing to the chorus, the left doesn't want truth, only to cling to their misguided nonsense.

As for me, I intend to go to my grave telling all I can the truth about Viet Nam and the shame associated with it doesn't belong to Veterans, but to the protestors.
_________________
Clark County Conservative
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Essayons
Seaman Apprentice


Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 81
Location: Philadelphia area

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What few understand is that Kerry, representing the anti-war faction, made statements that were sometimes lies, sometimes ignorant assumptions and mostly blissful support of the Communist agenda.

Below are excepts from Kerry’s 1971 Senate testimony:

Mr. Kerry: Well, I think if we were to replace the Thieu-Ky-Khiem regime and offer these men sanctuary somewhere, which I think this Government has an obligation to do since we created that government and supported it all along. I think there would not be any problems. The number two man at the Saigon talks to Ambassador Lam was asked by the Concerned Laymen, who visited with them in Paris last month, how long they felt they could survive if the United States would pull out and his answer was 1 week. So I think clearly we do have to face his question. But I think, having done what we have done to that country, we have an obligation to offer sanctuary to the perhaps 2,000, 3,000 people who might face, and obviously they would, we understand that, might face political assassination or something else. But my feeling is that those 3,000 who may have to leave that country

Attitude of South Vietnamese Army and People Toward Withdrawal

Senator Aiken: I think your 3,000 estimate might be a little low because we had to help 800,000 find sanctuary from North Vietnam after the French lost at Dienbienphu. But assuming that we resettle the members of the Saigon government, who would undoubtedly be in danger, in some other area, what do you think would be the attitude, of the large, well-armed South Vienamese army and the South Vietnamese people? Would they be happy to have us withdraw or what?

The full transcript can be viewed by clicking: http://www.nationalreview.com/document/kerry200404231047.asp

And in another 1971 Senate statement calling s “monsters”:

Feelings of Men Coming Back from Vietnam
I would like to talk to you a little bit about what the result is of the feelings these men carry with them after coming back from Vietnam. The country doesn't know it yet, but it has created a monster, a monster in the form of millions of men who have been taught to deal and to trade in violence, and who are given the chance to die for the biggest nothing in history; men who have returned with a sense of anger and a sense of betrayal which no one has yet grasped.

Jane Fonda during her book signing and referring to those VN vets who recently spit in her face stated she could not believe how many of us (VN vets) still live in the past.

Well, Quynh Dao makes another clear case as to why we live in the past. It is very simple and clear to us: We want to clear the air of the foul stench that the Kerry's and Fonda's of the VN anti-war movement cast on us! Until that happens, we will continue to "live in the past" until the history of Vietnam, as presented by them and propogated by the MSM is corrected. It is simple - our honor is at stake - the honor that they took from us by foistering their lies about us.

I recently asked Stevie to post to her "girls" web site my comparison of the My Lai massace to the 3,000 civilians massacred by the NVA during the battle for Hue during Tet 1968. I doubt one of them knows about the Hue massacre.

Time to sign off. Getting too verbose and the emotions are setting in again.

Regards,
Dick
_________________
Essayons - Let us try - the code of the Army Engineer. Sappers First, the code of the Combat Engineer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LewWaters
Admin


Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Jane Fonda during her book signing and referring to those VN vets who recently spit in her face stated she could not believe how many of us (VN vets) still live in the past.


How is it we are living in the past, when for many, we have lived with it every single day since we came back to a country eager to sweep us under the rug and vilify us at every turn, thanks to disinformation spread by the likes of Hanoi Jane and sKerry?


None of us asked for parades or to be glorified or hero-worshipped, but we also didn't expect to be the brunt of nearly everything declared wrong or bad within society.

Weekly TV series in the late 60's and early 70's almost always had a deranged Viet Nam Veteran as the villain. Until "We Were Soldiers" came out, almost every movie about Viet Nam, even those considered somewhat pro-veteran, portrayed us as disturbed men bent on revenge at any cost. Movies about the war itself, such as Apocalypse Now, gave such a skewed vision of our efforts, its no wonder so many still feel we are walking time bombs.

The Rambo series portrayed us as super combat men ready to explode at any moment, if someone else drew "First Blood." Lesser-known movies such as Cease Fire, with Miami Vice's Don Johnson, portrayed us as having deep dark secrets we carried around that prevented us from holding jobs or properly raising and caring for our families.

I have a belt buckle that identifies me as a Viet Nam Veteran. When I first got it and wore it to work one day, back in the 80's, the most common mention I received from the women where I worked was "who cares?"

No, I can't really say we are living in the past when we get almost daily reminders of our time there and people like her and sKerry keep coming forward dredging up old hurts and memories.
_________________
Clark County Conservative
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dusty
Admiral


Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1264
Location: East Texas

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread needs to be preserved. Some well said emotions and consice descriptions of the truth here.
The lies and treachery by Kerry and his minions have to be answered for sometime in history. It's up to us to make sure the truth is told and the textbooks changed. It's for sure the media isn't going to tell the truth.
John and Jane's truths needs to be exposed for the communist backed lies that they are at every opportunity. Silence will not get the job done and we've been quiet much too long.

I sure like the new mission statement for the Stolen Honor group. Solid bunch of guys there now.
Dusty
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bob51
Seaman


Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 156
Location: Belfast

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dick wrote of:
Quote:
the 3,000 civilians massacred by the NVA during the battle for Hue during Tet 1968.


Shawa wrote
Quote:
The Western media did not report the massacre of 4000 unarmed civil servants and civilians in the city of Hue, committed by the communists.


I remembered a book by the British military historian Peter Macdonald having an observation on this. MacDonald spent over 30 years in the British army and took to writing in his retirement. For his research on Vietnam, he interviewed General Marcelle Bigeard, the only senior French officer to survive the battle of Dien Bien Phu. He also interviewed General William C. Westmoreland, the American commander in Vietnam from 1964 to 1968. In addition, he interviewed General Vo Nguyen Giap, the legendary commander of the Vietnamese army who had "crushed the French at Dien Bien Phu" and "stymied the Americans at Khe Sanh".






In his book on Giap MacDonald wrote (p. 267):
Quote:
When Hue was taken by the Vietcong, they released all the prisoners in the city jails, especially those who were held because they had been suspected of helping them, but fanatics also killed thousands of the inhabitants whom they regarded as enemies of the people. When it was all over a document was found which listed '1,892 administrative personnel, 38 policemen, and 790 tyrants' as having been executed: cold words that hid the true description of those unfortunate people: civic leaders, upholders of law and order, perhaps citizens whose neighbours were exacting vengeance for a past wrong by making false accusations. Radio Hanoi referred to them all as 'lackeys who owed blood debts' and condoned the executions, but in fact it was the commander of the PLAF troops in the city who stopped the slaughter when he heard what was happening."


Do any other books corroborate this version of this massacre?

Bob51
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SwiftVets.com Forum Index -> Geedunk & Scuttlebutt All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group