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coldwarvet
Admiral
Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 1125
Location: Minnetonka, MN
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 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: American public support, does it matter? |
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I am taking a psychology class and doing a paper on the welfare of Veterans who served with the benefit of American public support vs. those who served during times without popular American support. Are their differences in..., and other measurable factors that suggest success or short comings?
1) Incarcerations
2) Unemployment
3) Divorce
4) Substance abuse
Please point me to any research that has been done on this topic.
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Defender of the honor of those in harms way keeping us out of harms way.
"Peace is our Profession"
Strategic Air Command - Motto
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1991932
Lance Corporal
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 381
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a Vietnam vet and would like to help. But after I lost my job and my wife left me, I started doing drugs. Right now, I'm in jail and they limit my time on the internet. 
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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coldwarvet
Admiral
Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 1125
Location: Minnetonka, MN
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks LewWaters,
The link is very useful I am trying to track down the methods used to obtain the data.
What is your personal opinion Lew?
Is their a difference in after service success for those who served with the support of public opinion vs. those who served without popular support from the American populous?
Perhaps the type of individual who makes it through the rigor of military training has thick enough skin not to be impacted by popular public opinion one way or the other. But common sense and numerous personal conversations I had with my brothers in uniform tells a different story.
_________________
Defender of the honor of those in harms way keeping us out of harms way.
"Peace is our Profession"
Strategic Air Command - Motto
USAF 75-79 Security Police |
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Deuce
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 589
Location: FL
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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CWV,
Sorry to hear you've re-enlisted in the moonbat army....my condolences. And I can empathize...one of the things I tried after exiting stage left from the US Army in Jan, '71 and working for a couple years, was returning to Academia (it got some money after all)....but that's not your question.
"Support" is one of those "feeling" not "thinking" nouns, so I'm sure you'll get lots of Chapters in your book, and mebbe that's good. Here's one you could write a book on by itself. Most corporations for the last 30some years have had those nice posters on their bulletin boards (you know the ones I'm talking about, OSHA, gun ban, emplyees must wash hands before returning...etc). One of those posters allows an employee to 'register' as a Vietnam Veteran. So there's a whole class of vets with "support", isn't there?.
Well,long story short, while I worked for a corporation for 35+years, and I was a Vietnam veteran...I didn't ever register as same with the company...and never mentioned my location while serving in the US Army...obviously US Army-2years- was on my personal History, but no more no less.
Originally (and we on this board know who had no small say in this travesty) for say some 30 years, seems like Vietnam Vet was considered by some to be a black mark as opposed to an Accomplishment....and hence my question to you? WHy the with vs without support distinction/comparison? I've led myself to believe that the distinction/comparison is much deeper than that...perhaps your answers will lead you to a similar conclusion....one which by the way, I am deeply interested in hearing about some day...I've enjoyed your writing to date! Good luck, and if I can be of some small help, I'll gladly add to the above...I too once took a psych course and made a little pin money on the side in a 'study'... 
Deuce |
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Deuce
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 589
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:29 am Post subject: |
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CWV,
As a follow-on to my note above, I meant to give a couple sites that come to mind that have a wealth of info (both have been mentioned in our creme-de-la-creme wealth of info, the SVPT site)....
first, the Vietnam Vets for Academic Reform (VVAR)
http://www.i-served.com/MagruderArticlesIndex.html
second, THE Viet-myths site:
http://www.viet-myths.net
And if you haven't tried it yet, the Search button at the top of the page can boggle your mind with answers as well....g'luck
Deuce |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Is their a difference in after service success for those who served with the support of public opinion vs. those who served without popular support from the American populous?
Perhaps the type of individual who makes it through the rigor of military training has thick enough skin not to be impacted by popular public opinion one way or the other. But common sense and numerous personal conversations I had with my brothers in uniform tells a different story. |
CWV, truth be known, even WW2 vets weren't initially well received after WW2. A late 40s movie, "The Best Years of Our Lives" illustrates how some of them needed help readjusting and were looked on as returning to take jobs away from those who didn't serve.
In my personal opinion, I think it mostly depends on the individual.
After Viet Nam, I ended up reenlisting for 6 more years (was going to go for 20, but Carter was the final straw for me). I didn't see as much resentment as did guys that got out right away.
When I did get out in 1977, most people I ran into seemed to not care at all. I didn't talk a whole lot about Nam, but the few WW2 Vets I worked with were sympathetic, although believing we had lost the war.
In the early 80s, after my first divorce, I began speaking up about Viet Nam, mostly trying to figure out why I didn't seem to fit the norm we all were seeing on TV and the movies. Some people I worked with even replied to me, about being a Viet Nam Vet, "Who Cares?" It took me a long time, well up into the 90s to see that it was all a myth, that we weren't the hair triggered walking time bombs we were made out to be and that I was the norm, a man working everyday to support and raise 2 daughters.
My resentment over the years has been directed at ones like Hanoi Jane and sKerry, but their actions didn't really hold me back. The last election brought back a flood of memories to me, but nothing really bad, just memories of returning home and spending leave time avoiding those who were actively protesting our involvment.
It was also the first time I took note of how manipulative the media was where they were crying on the news about a build up around Khe Sahn (early 1971) and the government wasn't telling them why. It was my first letters to the editor that was published too as I spoke my mind of how ridiculous it was for them to even be wanting to know.
In a nutshell, I'd have to say a lot depends on the individual. |
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| 1991932 wrote: | | I'm a Vietnam vet and would like to help. But after I lost my job and my wife left me, I started doing drugs. Right now, I'm in jail and they limit my time on the internet. |
Classic!
_________________
"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| LewWaters wrote: | | Quote: | Is their a difference in after service success for those who served with the support of public opinion vs. those who served without popular support from the American populous?
Perhaps the type of individual who makes it through the rigor of military training has thick enough skin not to be impacted by popular public opinion one way or the other. But common sense and numerous personal conversations I had with my brothers in uniform tells a different story. |
CWV, truth be known, even WW2 vets weren't initially well received after WW2. A late 40s movie, "The Best Years of Our Lives" illustrates how some of them needed help readjusting and were looked on as returning to take jobs away from those who didn't serve.
In my personal opinion, I think it mostly depends on the individual.
After Viet Nam, I ended up reenlisting for 6 more years (was going to go for 20, but Carter was the final straw for me). I didn't see as much resentment as did guys that got out right away.
When I did get out in 1977, most people I ran into seemed to not care at all. I didn't talk a whole lot about Nam, but the few WW2 Vets I worked with were sympathetic, although believing we had lost the war.
In the early 80s, after my first divorce, I began speaking up about Viet Nam, mostly trying to figure out why I didn't seem to fit the norm we all were seeing on TV and the movies. Some people I worked with even replied to me, about being a Viet Nam Vet, "Who Cares?" It took me a long time, well up into the 90s to see that it was all a myth, that we weren't the hair triggered walking time bombs we were made out to be and that I was the norm, a man working everyday to support and raise 2 daughters.
My resentment over the years has been directed at ones like Hanoi Jane and sKerry, but their actions didn't really hold me back. The last election brought back a flood of memories to me, but nothing really bad, just memories of returning home and spending leave time avoiding those who were actively protesting our involvment.
It was also the first time I took note of how manipulative the media was where they were crying on the news about a build up around Khe Sahn (early 1971) and the government wasn't telling them why. It was my first letters to the editor that was published too as I spoke my mind of how ridiculous it was for them to even be wanting to know.
In a nutshell, I'd have to say a lot depends on the individual. |
Damn Lew,
Powerful stuff.
Thank you for sharing.
_________________
"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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coldwarvet
Admiral
Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 1125
Location: Minnetonka, MN
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Deuce wrote: | CWV,
Sorry to hear you've re-enlisted in the moonbat army....my condolences. And I can empathize...one of the things I tried after exiting stage left from the US Army in Jan, '71 and working for a couple years, was returning to Academia (it got some money after all)....but that's not your question.
Deuce |
Thanks Deuce, from my previous posts you know how I feel about the educrats. However, I want to become a nurse and their certain requirements in this society require documentation of completing a list of courses. One of those requirements is writing so hopefully my posts will become more readable in the future.
_________________
Defender of the honor of those in harms way keeping us out of harms way.
"Peace is our Profession"
Strategic Air Command - Motto
USAF 75-79 Security Police |
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AMOS
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 558
Location: IOWA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:36 pm Post subject: The Individual |
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Yes, it does depend on the individual and what the individual "saw". After just completeing Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's book "On Killing", I learned what effect face to face encounters, confirmed kills, etc. have on the thickness of a veteran's skin and the onset of PTSD. I realized how lucky I was not to have had such experiences.
I wouldn't, however, pass up a face to face encounter with either John Fony Skerry or Jack Martha. |
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