SwiftVets.com

sdonions · PO3 Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 294

I have heard that Kerry was the lead boat in which he "saved" Rassman. Out of the boats that were present was there only one Action Report made or did each ONC make their own report? It would seem that if each made their own report it would be easier to get that than to get Kerry to release that document.

Like I have said earlier, I am not a Vet so I am unsure as to how the After Action Reports were made.

Thanks for any information that you can give me.

Raggok · Seaman Recruit Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 3

I have wondered about this myself. If so many people there have a different recollection of what happened, then how did the "errors" make it into medal citations?

I have a hard time believing that the citations are all based off of Kerry's words alone. So, I only see two possibilities:

1) There was enemy fire and now the Swiftboat vets are changing their story.

2) Or there was not enemy fire, but *several* people collaborated and filed false reports.

If there are other possibilities, then please by all means put them forth.

ASPB

Raggok · Seaman Recruit Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 3

ASPB · Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:31 am Post subject:

sdonions · PO3 Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 294

ASPB....Thank you for the information. In all my reading on Viet Nam, I have read quite a few things on the PBRs but nothing on the Swifties. Most of what I have read is on the ground pounders. Looks like it is time to add to the collection again.

I want to also thank everyone for putting up the fight to keep Kerry out of the CinC. All of you have show great big brass ones to put up with the Lefties attack and standing firm in the face of adversity.

ASPB · Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:56 am Post subject:

ArmyWife · Lieutenant Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 218

ASPB, you have asked the same question that I've been asking....Did Rassman really put Kerry in for a medal, and how? Not that it's impossible...but it seems sort of unlikely for an Army O-1 or O-2 who would have presumably been out in the jungle much of the time. I guess he could have asked someone in his unit's personel office to fill out the paperwork for him and then he signed it.

I really don't want to believe that Rassman is lying, but rather just confused by the blast and therefore mistaken about the enemy fire. The question lingers in my mind, though.

Why won't Kerry release the records?

HardCorps · Ensign Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 65 Location: San Diego

This happened to a Gunny in my unit in Iraq who dove under a submerged APC that flipped into a marsh by accident and pulled two men out and revived one of them. What happens is the survivor (drowning man) writes an official eyewitness statement. In this case that was put together with other statements and given to the Gunny's Reporting Senior.

The Reporting Senior or the C.O. of that unit writes up a "Summary of Action" and then a separate "Citation" then attaches the whole package to a “Personal Award Recommendation" form 1650. The originator must endorse the first box and every one else up the chain does the same either recommending or kicking it back. By the way the Gunny was recommended for the Navy- Marine Corps Medal, the highest non-combat medal for valor.

In combat, for awards for Valor sometimes they skip the Summary of Action if the Citation is good enough and some General wants to give a spot award (seen it) but always with eyewitness statements.

I can not find kerry's
-1650, -Summary of action, -Eyewitness statements

also there are 3 differently approved and modified Silver Star citations for kerry, some when he was a sitting Senator, The most recent is modified significantly and contradicts the After Action he wrote years ago.

What did Rassman get for that time period and who wrote it?
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Navy_Navy_Navy · Admin Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777

Me#1You#10 · Site Admin Joined: 06 May 2004 Posts: 6503

cgc · Seaman Recruit Joined: 03 Jun 2004 Posts: 47

I take exception to the comment " Zummie wanted a lot of medals in that period. I have a Silver Star from "roughly" the same timeframe and medals were like geedunk then for Swiftees and RiverRats if you were an opportunist. BTW, I wasn't"

Your medals maybe like geedunk, but all the swiftboat sailors I know, and I am a ex-swift boat sailor, and was stationed in AnToi,We earned our medals. In fact that kind of comment is rude and offensive. What right do you have to speak for us Swift Vets? If your river rat medals are so much geedunk toss them over the fence. As for mine and every swift vet I know they are well deserved. I just wish people would stick to their area of expertise and quit posting things about swift vets and their operations when the reality is they never sailed on Swift Boats. Want to know the truth ask a Swift Vet!

CGC 68-69 AnToi-Danang, Crew 6C

cgc · Seaman Recruit Joined: 03 Jun 2004 Posts: 47

This isn't the only site for Swift Boat Vets.

We have another site, Swift Boat Sailors Assoc. from there you can link to one of the most comprehensive Swift Boat crew listings and boat assignments found today. You can find out what boats we sailed on ,when, who the OIC was, what divisions we were in ETC. It would put an end to alot of the guessing I see here. You can also see our area of operations and pictures of the boats.

CGC 68-69 AnToi, Danang Swift Boat Crew 6C

HardCorps · Ensign Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 65 Location: San Diego

Kerry's 3 different Silver Star citations from the 60's to the 80's: a comparison of the three copies has too many changes for a post and the required "eyewitness statements" are still missing but the key points are:

1st citation mentions: -"ENEMY SOLDIER sprang up from his position not ten feet from PCF -94 and fled."
-kerry then leaped ashore pursued the man and kills him behind a hooch. there is a second page that is also different from the other 2 re-writes. signed by Adm. Zumwalt- no date

2nd citation changes: -"beached his boat only ten feet away from a VC rocket position"(now not an actual ENEMY SOLDIER) Why does this matter?

This 2nd citation mentions nothing of a single enemy soldier or a hooch but instead says "Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire...." This is the big change from a wounded lone VC to a numerically superior force. signed by ADM. Hyland. John O'Neil has mentioned this several times on TV.

3rd citation changes:
-added “By his brave action, bold initiative, and unwavering devotion to duty" no date, signed by John Lehman SECNAV in the 80's * I do not know if kerry was a Senator yet.
***
- They also say " with utter disregard for HIS own safety and the enemy rockets he again ordered a charge..." if he knew there was more than one rocket and then beached, that shows he was deliberately trying to hurt his men or the citation is wrong or he made it up .
disregarded HIS own safety!! He needlessly endangering his men, the embarked infantry (which didn't get off or fire a shot despite a numerically superior enemy and "intense fire")
He endangered his perfectly good craft, possessing speed, firepower, maneuverability, and communications. Kerry's running aground also caused his primary heavy weapon rendered useless.

HE created a grounded, flammable, thin skinned, exposed, confused COFFIN full of men. Yet, all these men and kerry trained repeatedly to conduct an "action drill" to do the opposite.

When you lead men into fire you never deliberately endangered them for your personal gain. Even if the enemy threat looks minor.

There is a rule in combat- "If it works and it wasn't luck, it's not wrong"
But what is described vividly in the 3 citations is significantly contradictory.
That's the problem, this did not work other wise kerry would have done it again, and the Swift Boats and later Vietnamese Navy would have made it a tactic for winning the Delta and the whole coastline.

The only close eyewitnesses were all written up for the same action and I doubt they ever saw the AAR.

Citations themselves are just paper but they represent the most important sacrifices of all. The paper and cloth do not give men importance or honor, It is the soldier's actions that give the award it's importance and honor.

Conclusion: Although very strange, the changes could mean nothing, and if you have never gone though the precise and careful process of writing and submitting awards both in garrison and combat you may say why is changing a citation a couple times over 2 decades a big deal.

Then why re-write them at all? If it was good-to-go back then, what's the problem Lt.?

If kerry lost the original or threw it over a fence, then there are copies in Naval Records. But if they can't find one then just change the words to make the situation sound more desperate, then delete the one wounded VC that made kerry look like a fool by trying to get his men, 10+ allies and a perfectly good boat damaged or killed for a damned $2 ribbon? -BULL

Not even good initiative with his bad judgment and lies.
_________________
__________________________
-USMC - Always Faithful
-Platoon Cmdr - Somalia
-ANGLICO FAC - Iraqi Freedom