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GenrXr Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004 Posts: 1720 Location: Houston
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: GM, Ford and Chrysler Must Become Competitive |
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GM, Ford and Chrysler Must Become Competitive
I have never owned a sports car, only trucks and what most would consider boring or practical vehicles. Years ago, my sister’s husband, then boyfriend, let me take his brand new Trans-Am out for a drive. Driving late with the T-tops off on a cool, clear and quiet night, all that could be heard was the sound of the engines V-8 and it was beautiful. There is something truly unique about the American design of our large cars and motors, which gives rise to the fun driving experience. The car felt like a big piece of inefficient metal design, yet under the hood was a huge engine just loud enough not to offend, yet remind me there was more than adequate power to move that lumbering hunk of metal down the road. This was a beautiful ensemble of car and driver. At the time another much faster car, which I had driven, was the Mazda RX Turbo. I couldn’t help but rib my friend who had graciously let me drive it. I asked him why he would spend so much money on something very fast, going from 0-60 in less than 5 seconds, yet could not feel or hear. The car was a go-cart for grown-ups. It highlighted just how out of touch the Japanese are to American taste. To say the Trans-Am was an American tour de force in engineering would be to discount the poor build quality and less than 100 thousand mile life expectancy. These cars would fall apart after a few of those late night drives.
Today, the Big Three are asking the government for 50 billion to stay in business. Rather than build better cars and become more efficient businesses, they want to continue to do business as is and rely on the government to stay competitive. They have become bankrupt and operate as if they were pre-Perestroika Russia. GM has a market capitalization of 6 billion with revenue of close to 200 billion. The stock should not be trading and is at levels not seen since the middle of the 20th century. What is the reason the company is still in business and the stock listed? How do you stop funding the beast once it has ate so much? The banks are heavily vested as well as our political leadership, yet why should Americans who do not work for GM be asked to pay for their employees pension packages. We should not and the company should be insolvent.
Here are some recommendations for the American automotive industry.
1) Become non-union shops. Non-union labor will build better vehicles than union workers.
2) Actually make quality job #1 and stop trying to imitate the competition and appeal to American taste with American design.
3) Viewable diagnostics. The modern car has elaborate computer systems, yet why do we not have a 5”-6” in car touch sensitive display showing vehicle diagnostics? We should know when a sensor is going out or the engine is idling too high or low. We should know when tires are low on pressure or the oil’s viscosity has broken down. We should know what repairs are performed. The dealers would complain, so see number 4.
4) Get rid of the dealers. They give people a headache and unnecessarily high blood pressure. There is no such thing as a good dealer. Sell cars like computer companies sell computers. Will people really be any more upset over automotive repair outlets than they are now at dealer repair outlets? This will also be additional incentive to do the repair right and not be able to shift blame to the dealer. Most people begin shopping for a new car by the time repairs start becoming necessary. Dealer outlets are out dated and a strain on customer relations.
Ten years ago if you were to visit a farming town in Kansas, nothing but American car and trucks would be seen, yet on a recent visit to Concordia, all I saw were Nissan and Toyota pick-up trucks. The Big Three would have us believe that their recent woes are due to not responding to the demand for lighter and more fuel efficient vehicles, yet if they lost the large truck market in Middle America to the Japanese, their problem is much greater than making more fuel efficient vehicles. The Big Three need to fix their companies and the American public should not be responsible for it, unless it is voluntary and comes with a shiny new, quality made vehicle in the driveway. _________________ "An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy
Last edited by GenrXr on Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:20 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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BuffaloJack Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 1637 Location: Buffalo, New York
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'd add one more.
Dump the ISO9000 crap. If it really worked, then Europe would be the leader in manufacturing and quality. All it really accomplishs is piling up mountains of paperwork documenting that something met a specification that didn't work in the first place. _________________ Swift Boats - Qui Nhon (12/69-4/70), Cat Lo (4/70-5/70), Vung Tau (5/70-12/71) |
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dusty Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1264 Location: East Texas
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Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:11 am Post subject: |
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Meanwhile, back on the ranch, for older vehicles with narrow band oxygen sensors there is a simple way to get better gas mileage.
You can add a device that uses electrolysis to break water into hydrogen and oxygen gas and then pipe that into your intake on your vehicle.
It makes the engine burn the gasoline much more efficiently and thereby increases the mpg of the vehicle.
Now there are some who say that the laws of physics prohibit this advantage from being gained because the alternator has to generate the electric power to 'crack' the water and that the boost gained by adding the hydrogen to the intake is thereby canceled out.
Rubbish!
You are using a small amt. of electricity to cause a chemical reaction that causes a mechanical device to be more efficient. In the process you can gain a small advantage.
Check out my HHO project and results here. http://www.computercents.cc/hho.htm
A high performance sports car called the Scorpion made by the Ronn Motor Co. is being fitted with hydrogen generators from the factory and is supposed to be capable of 40 mpg. figures.
http://www.ronnmotors.com/cms/
Wake up Detroit. _________________ Left and Wrong are the opposite of Right! |
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Harvuskong Seaman
Joined: 17 Oct 2004 Posts: 174
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Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:50 am Post subject: Re: GM, Ford and Chrysler Must Become Competitive |
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GenrXr wrote: | GM, Ford and Chrysler Must Become Competitive
4) Get rid of the dealers. They give people a headache and unnecessarily high blood pressure. There is no such thing as a good dealer. Sell cars like computer companies sell computers. Will people really be any more upset over automotive repair outlets than they are now at dealer repair outlets? This will also be additional incentive to do the repair right and not be able to shift blame to the dealer. Most people begin shopping for a new car by the time repairs start becoming necessary. Dealer outlets are out dated and a strain on customer relations.
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I will disagree on that one, that will regards to the dealers that I have found that are good dealers in the past. Automobile and farm equipment.
Reasons are:
1. They are also a place to trade-in your old car/truck or tractor.
2. Also a place to pickup a good trade-in that is a good deal.
3. They are a place to go for in-warranty repair service.
4. A good source of OEM parts and help when you have problems with your car when you are capable of doing your own repairs. |
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TEWSPilot Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 1235 Location: Kansas (Transplanted Texan)
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Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Dusty, I've only got 365,688 miles on my '91 Olds Cutlass Cierra, but would it be worth investing in the HHO upgrade to get my mileage up from 26 mpg on the highway to something more reasonable? I can only go about 400 miles on a tank, and with gas prices like they are and rising, it's killing all of us.
Seriously, I am very interested in improved gas mileage for my car and my wife's car, so I'll bookmark your page and keep checking it to see when you get everything finalized. If you sell those kits, and I can afford to buy a couple, I'm interested. My kids would be, too.
Like everyone else, I don't understand why car makers aren't putting these on cars already. |
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dusty Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1264 Location: East Texas
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Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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TEWSPilot, I won't be selling these but there are several places that do.
The better ones include the electronics needed to allow your car's computer to compensate for the added efficiency due to the introduction of the HHO gas.
With the newer model automobiles (from about 1990 on) the oxygen sensor they use is more than likely a 'wide band' sensor which requires that it's voltage has to be manipulated. Also on the really new vehicles with complete engine control by computer a new 'programmable' computer should be used to replace the OEM computer that comes on the vehicle.
Here's a link to a site that sells kits that you have to assemble. Kinda pricey considering all the parts are available at most Lowe's or Home Depot's for much less money.
http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/
He also has a couple of links in his site to places to get the electronics needed to adjust the wide band oxygen sensors.
On my HHO project page I also supplied a couple of links.
If you decide to experiment with this technology be careful...hydrogen gas is highly explosive if proper precautions aren't observed... and good luck on helping yourself to much better gas mileage.
I might add that my truck runs much better....more torque and smoother with the hydrogen generator running. I can pull off from 1,000 rpm in 4th gear easily which it won't do if I cut the generator off.
It also stands up better on the hills.
In other words, it's a noticeable difference you can feel in the way your vehicle runs.
Also, I need to add that the bigger the engine, the more HHO gas is necessary to make a difference in your mpg figures. Some people with big v-8s are putting two or three of them together.
18 wheelers are using a six-pack arrangment. One trucker here in town went from 7 mpg to 15 mpg on his Freightliner with a six-pack.
It can be really hard to find room under the hood to put these things. _________________ Left and Wrong are the opposite of Right! |
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Deuce Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Mar 2005 Posts: 589 Location: FL
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Genxr,
Good post, I agree with all 4 of your solutions (and the 5th above). That said, on the Mazda Quote: | The car was a go-cart for grown-ups. It highlighted just how out of touch the Japanese are to American taste. | you knock the Japanese (I've never bought one, never will), then proceed to knock the US mfrs with the boilerplate press complaints. So that left me a little confused. I've never owned a US mfr vehicle that was unreliable...my (and wife's) population set:
'54 Ford V8(bought @ 100k mi, gave it to brother in 1968 @ 150k mi), '63 Ford Fairlane, '76 Pinto Wagon, '79 Chevy MonteCarlo, '84 Dodge Caravan (187k mi), '88 Pontiac Fiero (237k mi), '96 Caravan, '00 Jeep (~157k mi). All easily hit 100k mi, So since about 1980 (other than the GM gasser/diesel fiasco), the whole quality knock on US mfrs has been as bogus as the Swiftboat misinformation campaign by the media....which is why I'm surprised to see it here! Just say'n. |
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zinfella Rear Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004 Posts: 708 Location: Mesa, Az
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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dusty wrote: | TEWSPilot, I won't be selling these but there are several places that do.
The better ones include the electronics needed to allow your car's computer to compensate for the added efficiency due to the introduction of the HHO gas.
With the newer model automobiles (from about 1990 on) the oxygen sensor they use is more than likely a 'wide band' sensor which requires that it's voltage has to be manipulated. Also on the really new vehicles with complete engine control by computer a new 'programmable' computer should be used to replace the OEM computer that comes on the vehicle.
Here's a link to a site that sells kits that you have to assemble. Kinda pricey considering all the parts are available at most Lowe's or Home Depot's for much less money.
http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/
He also has a couple of links in his site to places to get the electronics needed to adjust the wide band oxygen sensors.
On my HHO project page I also supplied a couple of links.
If you decide to experiment with this technology be careful...hydrogen gas is highly explosive if proper precautions aren't observed... and good luck on helping yourself to much better gas mileage.
I might add that my truck runs much better....more torque and smoother with the hydrogen generator running. I can pull off from 1,000 rpm in 4th gear easily which it won't do if I cut the generator off.
It also stands up better on the hills.
In other words, it's a noticeable difference you can feel in the way your vehicle runs.
Also, I need to add that the bigger the engine, the more HHO gas is necessary to make a difference in your mpg figures. Some people with big v-8s are putting two or three of them together.
18 wheelers are using a six-pack arrangment. One trucker here in town went from 7 mpg to 15 mpg on his Freightliner with a six-pack.
It can be really hard to find room under the hood to put these things. |
I spent close to 50 years behind the wheel of 18 wheelers, and never saw a Freightliner with a gasoline engine. Send your info about this system to <billwattenburg2@yahoo.com>, when and if, he gives it his blessing, I'll pay attention to it. _________________ No whiners! |
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dusty Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1264 Location: East Texas
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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Of course most 18 wheelers have diesel engines and nowhere did I say anthing about them not having diesel engines
I have 1.5 mil. logged miles behind the wheel of those things myself. Been all over every state and Canada and Alaska.
I did use to drive a GMC for Texaco that had a v12 gas engine in it hauling 8,000 gal. of gasoline around however. But that was back in the early 60's.
The HHO gas induction works great on gas or diesel engines.
I don't know who they guy whose email you put in your post is but he can go check it out for himself if he's interested.
Just letting people know about my personal experience with it.
You want to fool with it you can. You don't....then don't. _________________ Left and Wrong are the opposite of Right! |
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GenrXr Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004 Posts: 1720 Location: Houston
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Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Dusty,
I suppose my biggest complaint is the lack of quality and innovation. We do make much better vehicles, yet we should be making the best and leading the pack technologically.
We will eventually, but it might be necessary for the big three to go bankrupt. _________________ "An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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dusty Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1264 Location: East Texas
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Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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GenrXr wrote: | Dusty,
I suppose my biggest complaint is the lack of quality and innovation. We do make much better vehicles, yet we should be making the best and leading the pack technologically.
We will eventually, but it might be necessary for the big three to go bankrupt. |
They are headed that way GenXr. Toyota and Honda and several others are showing the way but Detroit seems to be having trouble shifting gears.
Never thought it would come to this. Japanese rice burners used to be the bottom of the heap and now they are the cream of the crop.
Makes one wonder if the guys making all those big bucks at the top of the Big 3 are earning their money eh? _________________ Left and Wrong are the opposite of Right! |
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