SwiftVets.com

[Fphamm]

I was wondering if you guys could give me some suggestions on how to deal with these people, who for the last 3 1/2 years have been on a daily schedule of saying how President Bush is an illigitimate president. Its starting to get, no, it has gotten very old, especially since I have friends over in Iraq, luckily so far, and god willing, they are still okay, but I hate to see what I'll say to them if something happens to one of my friends. I love my job, but I really hate some of the people, only a few that I work with will admit that they are republican, and they are from Sandpoint and Hayden Idaho, and I'm from Washington. I just need some advice, its hard to sit there and listen to this crap, and know that if I say anything, I'll probably be repremanded in some fashion. Just like when the issue of rapid transit was brought to the voters, our survey manager, in essenceee told, emailed everyone on how to vote, and that if it didn't pass we'dbe out of work, well, its been close to a year now, and I'm still working 60 hour weeks......If the politician say that the increase of taxes will supposedly decrease traffic in the greater Seattle area, all these lefty lemmings are all for it, since our governer and mayor thinks it a good idea....


I want to thank all of you for being a voice a truth and honesty.

Frank

[Me#1You#10]

I'd cede to them the water cooler and, with a Kerry candidacy, take comfort in the reality that they're ceding to you the reins of government. Perhaps not so appetizing in the short term, but much more fulfilling long-term.

Politics and work is a combustible mixture...keep it outside the office and spend that pent-up energy working, in some fashion, towards Kerry's defeat.

[MarineBrat]

How about an "UNFIT" sign with JFnK's mug plastered on it hanging in your cubicle?

You could list the top 10 things you dislike most about JFnK on it. You know, like David Letterman, only very sadly true in this case.

MarineBrat

[GoophyDog]

Fortunately Fphamm, I live on the other side of the mountains so the climate is more republican.

But, I do have one prosecuting attorney (Gordy) that I work with that is a staunch democrat. We used to shoot the bull in the parking lot and I came up with this answer to all of his rants and raves regarding Bush:

"Gordy," I said, "name just one constructive thing Kerry has done in all his years."

The answer to this has been "he supported this, he voted for that". My rejoinder to that is a simple "But did he initiate it, did he sponsor it?"

That's when the pauses get longer, and you can see the introspection begin. At that point, I interject this: "Hate him all you want, disagree with him and challenge him on all points, but remember this; President Bush DID things. He INITIATED things. He is a LEADER, not a member of the pack."

As for the office workers, if you work in a cubicle or other type office space, I urge you to print up some of the pix of the constructive things our troops are doing. Let them stand as a silent tribute for the good things those men and women are doing over in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Why ask? Because it needs asking.

[Fphamm]

Thanks, I think I'll sit down and print as much as I can find. There are a lot of great links I can follow from this board.

[WEMEADOR]

First, try lets get over it to him, but unfortunately it is a BS line they use with no merit.

Second, some facts.
The elections are run IA with our Constitution & so was the last one (Do they want to throw out the Constitutution just like some are trying to trampel on our Constitutional rights?)
Only 25% of American voters even bothered too vote in 2002--so what makes anyone legitimate?
The US Constitution uses the electoral system to select the President--and Bush one it---just like most US Presidents have except when Congress and the electoral college had to sort out a couple early US elections-----
In 1992 Clinton only earned 43.3% of popular vote (but only 23% of voting age Americans voted) Bush got 47.8% of 25% of populaion that voted in 2000---so who is more legitimate? Was Clinton illegitimate? (Don't answer that
Kennedy (the great American President) only had 49.7%!
Third, Florida recounts.
Several outside independent news media & others recounted the FLorida votes & end result was the same-Bush won Florida & their electoral votes. The Spreme Court only ruled to stop the rediculous attempt to do a selective recount in Fl & to decide the Constitutional issues that ended the never ending attempt to actually steal the election & to violate the FL & US Constitution.
_________________
Bill Meador
Retired Army 93"
(But still proudly serving God, country and family)

Thanks to all who have served and especially those that sacrificed......

[tngator]

I was having a 'discussion' @ JFnK the other day and all I had to ask him was a simple question and he shut up:

During Kerry's convention speech, he spent 6 minutes talking about growing up and serving in VN, but only used one sentence to sum up a 20 year Senate career ......why?

he had no answer.
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Click 4 SEC Sports Talk
Kerry Fled While Brave Men Bled

[carpro]

I assume they are mainly talking about the fiasco in Florida to claim that Bush's election was illigitimate.

I usually point out to those crybabies that Gore didn't lose the election in Florida. It just happened to end there.

I believe Gore lost the election in Tennessee. His home state...the people who know him best didn't vote in his favor.

How many men have been elected who did not carry their home state?
If Gore wins his home state, Florida doesn't matter.

If you really want to be nasty, point out that Gore's actions since his loss vindicate the judgement of the people of Tennessee. He has proven to be a real head case. Can you imagine him being President after 911?

Scary!!!!!
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

[tngator]

[Spiess]

[AltMed]

Frank,

First, talking politics, that do not have to do directly with work, should be kept out of the office - I don't care who you are for or against.

Second, If transit directly affects your company (or it's employees), then I'm not sure why you seemed upset about someone in the company being honest with you that you may in fact NOT have a job if certain things happen.

Third, Get a copy of the Consitution and read it! While you may not be happy with what is being said, the Senate was supposed to make a ruling on what to do for an interim president & how to resolve the mess with the election, NOT the Supreme Court (which are judged who are appointed by presidents - in the 2000 election, it was Bush sr. who had the majority vote, thus the split vote & those people being unhappy. (Should ANY father get to pick his son's jury?)

If you value what you read in the Constitution, thank your co-workers for the enlightenment & welcome to America! The constitution is required reading for every naturalized citizen, yet I find too many of us who are US born simply don't read ANY of the documents America is based on! If you don't like what's in the constitution, you might consider citizenship in another country.

After all this, and perhaps reading the Bill of Rights & other documents that America was built upon, if you still decide you want to be an American Vote for the person you think will REALLY uphold what America stands for and will do right by our people. Also take into account the money goinbg into this supposed "war on terror," the propoganda, the fear & war mongering, and if you REALLY care about those who are over in Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany, and who are serving elsewhere, remember we are all seeing this big ball from a different view, and thin abot voting for those who will get those who are in the war zone the he** out of there!!! Many of these boys are getting messed up and loosing faith in our government because they were sent overseas under false pretenses and after my son's father and my neighbor BOTH killed themselves years after being in Viet Nam (BECAUSE they knew they WERE 'babykillers', and although no one ever blamed them on this end, they both could not deal with the actions they had done over there under orders to 'fight for America.')

I will NEVER forget the day I had to tell my son his father took a gun, put it in his mouth and blew his brains out! The service said this was "not service related," even though he came home and would drag me into the closet telling me to be absolutely silent to 'they' would kill us! Even though he applied for disability at the time, he had a psychotic break, and was wandering around hallucinating (this started while he was still in the service) His mom and dad were told he received a 'medical discharge.' Years later, after his suicide, we were told he did not received a 'medical discharge', but an 'honorable discharge.' HE WAS PSYCHOTIC FROM PTSS!!!

Let's NEVER send NOT EVEN ONE more kid to war unless we are under an imenant threat. It's obvious that this was not the case when Mr. Bush sent these boys and girls to war! (And it's obvious he knew it!) If you look at Mr. Bush's and his father's records in the middle east, you'll see what this is all about... and oil is small potatoes... Government contracts, Lockeed-Martin, and much more (yeah Halliburton, but come on, reporters aren't trained to go deep like they used to be, or they are scared they'll be blackballed like the McCarthy Era & like Gulf War I, in which the hospital's staff where I talked) were barred from saying anything about "Gulf War Syndrome." They were told if they did, they would be fired, as the hospital could loose funding for even mentioning those words and/or acknowledging the exposure these people had to our own bioweapons.

I won't tell you who to vote for, but I CAN tell you I'm not happy with either side. We never should have gotten into this war & the kids who are over there (and who aren't being groomed to make statements to the press) will tell you they know it's wrong. They will also tell you (as will any DOD worker) that in this day & age free speech is gone - especially if you have a government pension or if you are in the military & disagree with anything publicly.

Well... I may have lost the man I loved to a screwed up military, but I'm not receiving, nor do I ever expect to receive, any benefits because when we were kids we were lied to, as were these kids, and now they are threatened by the very government they are fighting for.

After what they did to my Henry, I taught my son (and thank God wisely) that joining the military was like throwing your life into a third world country. My son (out of curiousity) tried to talk to recruiters, but was turned away because of health problems - UNTIL, of course, this stupid war started - then they came to MY door asking that I give them my son as well & to LIE about his health so they could give him a death sentence?

Thank GOD my son saw the recruiteres for the lying sacks of sh** they are, and now he has decided to tell his friends about his father (which is VERY painful for him.) Unfortunately, we know several people over there in this stupid war and they want out ASAP! They know now that Bush did this for money and they want out, but are deathly afraid to say anything as they know those people in that prison were set up for those pictures we see on the news... long story there!

Anyhow, messed up stuff is going on, and if you believe in the Constitution & the NRA, then by God you might just want to load up on ammo.

I think we must insist that we have leaders that look out for our interests, and are not allowed in ANY way to profit from ANY government or war contracts.

Think Martha Stewart was bad??? OMG, check out Bush, Cheyney, Rice, Rumsfeld and on and on and on... Look for the money trail & when you find it, THEN you'll see who's REALLY liberal!!!


I personally think we need some new people running for president. Our government is SO corrupt it's unreal! I dunno about the Kerry stuff, as I wasn't there, but Bush is allowing his daddy to run things, and his dad's old cronies... I kinda like Edwards, however!!! in order for Kerry to get my vote, he's going to need to get down on this war AND without harming our men and women!!!

Liberal and conservative, because of misuse, have almost become synonyms: Liberal used to = Democrat, and Conservative used to = Republican.

Well, not really anymore... I think tehre has been a role reversal, but still have concerns about even Kerry. I would NEVER vote for Bush or ANYONE associated with him or his family! I knew he would lead us to war, and even still believe there may have been a deal for money made, just like his dad's and Reagan's Iran-Contra mess & Gulf War I. Perhaps 9/11 WAS the doings of Mr. Bush? I can tell you truthfully there are some in the Pentagon DOD who definitely believe so!

Good luck with all this... I know it's a lot to digest, but I'd start with the Constitution, as it's not too long, then go to the Bill of Rights, and so on... IT'll blow you away how this coutry has changed, and any good history class in a college of University can show you how fear was used in Hitler's & Bush's campaigns... they are BOTH similar, and their actions not so different. BOTH killed millions of people. Both ripped off their countries (And his dad even gave refuge to the Marcos family when they were caught stealing from the Phillipines!!! WHY???!!!???)

Why was Mr. Bush's FIRST trip after 9/11 to China??? They have one of the worst human rights records of ANY country and have been killing those in surrounding countries for years! WTF!?!?!?!
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The Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill," NOT kill when it serves you. Pro Life includes the lives of others in other countries as well (including China!)

[carpro]

[quote="AltMed"]

Third, Get a copy of the Consitution and read it! While you may not be happy with what is being said, the Senate was supposed to make a ruling on what to do for an interim president & how to resolve the mess with the election, NOT the Supreme Court (which are judged who are appointed by presidents - in the 2000 election, it was Bush sr. who had the majority vote, thus the split vote & those people being unhappy. (Should ANY father get to pick his son's jury?)

[quote]

You should have followed your own advice to find out that the federal government is not in charge of elections. The individual states are.

Doesn't matter now. The good people of Tennessee, Gore's home state, long ago decided the 2000 election.

Get over it.
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"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

[Spiess]

You should have followed your own advice to find out that the federal government is not in charge of elections. The individual states are.

Doesn't matter now. The good people of Tennessee, Gore's home state, long ago decided the 2000 election.

Get over it.[/quote]

thank you

[silenthunter]

Hey, carpro, I really have to agree with the tack your response to altmed took. Mostly on the "get over it" part.

Altmed's been through a lot, apparently, but there's a lot of poison in there, too. I'm really sorry to see that in a person and I wish her the best.

Her reference to the Constitution confuses me. I am not an expert, but I have read the Constitution numerous times and have quoted it often in response to liberal intrusions on our rights. Perhaps I missed the part about the Senate choosing the President.

Section II, Article 1 discusses the function of the electors and the reading of the votes of the electors in the Senate, but in that case the Senate merely confirms (counts votes on) what the electors already determined in accordance with their authority to do so. Just a normal election, no "interim President" involved.

The 25th Amendment deals with Senate action in the event of the incapacitation of the President, not an election. Am I missing something somewhere else?

As for my recollection of the 2000 fiasco, the Dems were fighting as dirty and as desperately as they could at the time. In the years since they have polished those tactics and are fighting dirty in an even more unified way now. In 2000 they had lost recounts and were trying to run out the clock in Florida with still more recounts. The Florida constitution puts a deadline on validating the counts, and the Dems were trying via innuendo and recount push the verification past the deadline, thus forcing the issue into a second ballot. Fortunately, Florida Secretary of State Kathleen What's-her-bucket had the skill and the courage to stand firm. The Florida supreme court, to my recollection, wasn't any kind of a help on that. So that issue, combined with some of the recount shenanigans, went to the Fed supremes. Some of the recount twists were invalidated, and the count-du-jour became final.

That's the Gleason version of events, admittedly paraphrased, as best as this aging fart can recall. The Dems were trying to engineer a "constitutional crisis," thereby throwing everything back in the pot to be done over again.

Was the process a close one? Yeah. Were the results valid? Yeah.

With Kerry so actively providing evidence for his own demise this may be a really fun election. Pray for Senators and Representatives. As we have seen over the past few years, a Republican White House coupled with a very slight majority in Congress has resulted in zero effectiveness in judicial appointments, compromised principles, and a hamstrung country. We need ten more Senators and Reps each who can actually spell "c-o-n-s-e-r-v-a-t-i-v-e."
_________________
R.E. Gleason, YN2
Navy '67-'71
Staff, Rear Admiral James D. Ramage,
COMCARDIV7, '70-'71
USS Oriskany, CVA34, '69-'71

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until someone tries to take it away." -- Thomas Jefferson

[Beatrice1000]