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FSR
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject: Question Regarding Form 180 |
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I am 40 years old and not a veteran, but I commend the SwiftVets for their service to their country during war and now. I had a question as to who is required to file after-action reports, casualty reports, etc. From my reading of this site, the book and other reports, SBVFT has been making a big push for Kerry to sign a Form 180 that would allow for scrutiny of his records, including after-action and casualty reports. The Kerry camp continues to argue that the points made by the SBVFT are 35 years old and politically motivated. If members of SBVFT filed their own Form 180s and released their records (including various reports), it may go a long way to disprove this argument and demonstrate that contemporaneous reports justify the SBVFT position and not Kerry's position. I understand that the veteran files may contain information of a personal nature and that these veterans are not running for President, but, given Kerry's "embellishments," I am concerned that his files alone -- and even his personal journal entries -- are full of exaggerations.
On another topic, I am curious if other individuals received Purple Hearts for actions that occurred contemporaneously with the ones in which Kerry claimed his Purple Hearts. If, in fact, there was such severe enemy fire, wouldn't others have been wounded (especially since they did not run when the mine was detonated)?
I appreciate your insights. Thanks. |
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Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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FSR,
Given that John Kerry is running, almost exclusively, on his record of heroism in Vetnam for the highest office in the US Government, the burden of proof to estalish his credentials lies with him.
The credentials of the Swiftvets are that the served with, ate with and bunked with John Kerry in a single Swift Boat unit. Their records are not in question; merely their experiences with John Kerry.
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Bye bye, Boston Straggler! |
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PENJ
Former Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| So you're saying that the SVFTs who are demanding that Kerry file a 180 have not filed a 180 themselves? |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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In case you haven't noticed, the Swifts aren't running for President and leader of the free world on the basis of
FOUR MONTHS and a stack of LIES!
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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PENJ
Former Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: | In case you haven't noticed, the Swifts aren't running for President and leader of the free world on the basis of
FOUR MONTHS and a stack of LIES! |
Kerry has served as a prosecutor, he's been a senator for 20 years, and he did serve a year on the USS Gridley in addition to his albeit short service in the swift boat unit. |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| PENJ wrote: | | So you're saying that the SVFTs who are demanding that Kerry file a 180 have not filed a 180 themselves? |
What we're saying is, it doesn't matter.
They may have or they may not have.
None of them are representing themselves as heroes or running for president.
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"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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We're also saying that the main spokesmen have done so privately and know what the risks are. They're still hammering and responding, factually, in hours without fear...
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 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| PENJ wrote: | | Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: | In case you haven't noticed, the Swifts aren't running for President and leader of the free world on the basis of
FOUR MONTHS and a stack of LIES! |
Kerry has served as a prosecutor, he's been a senator for 20 years, and he did serve a year on the USS Gridley in addition to his albeit short service in the swift boat unit. |
But Kerry's not including that stuff much in his campaign. He's running on those four months and a fraudulent "war hero" status.
If his campaign were honest, it would focus three times as much on his tour on the Gridley and six times as much on his VVAW activities.
And SIXTY times as much on his Senatorial career!!!!
Where IS all that?
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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PENJ
Former Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| carpro wrote: | | PENJ wrote: | | So you're saying that the SVFTs who are demanding that Kerry file a 180 have not filed a 180 themselves? |
What we're saying is, it doesn't matter.
They may have or they may not have.
None of them are representing themselves as heroes or running for president. |
Well, I personally believe that it does matter. While they may not be running for President themselves, they are trying to seriously influence the Presidential race. They are calling one of the two major candidates for the Presidency, a man chosen by Democrats to represent them, basically a liar. This has major implications for voters who may share philosophical and political views with Kerry -- or might feel that the leadership of Bush is wanting.
While they may not be running for President, they are trying to influence the race for President. |
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The Ghost
Seaman
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| PENJ wrote: | | Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: | In case you haven't noticed, the Swifts aren't running for President and leader of the free world on the basis of
FOUR MONTHS and a stack of LIES! |
Kerry has served as a prosecutor, he's been a senator for 20 years, and he did serve a year on the USS Gridley in addition to his albeit short service in the swift boat unit. |
the facts are that kerry wanted to make his service in vietnam as the reason that he would be a better leader
remember at the convention ,,john kerry reporting for duty ?
also he dosn't want to base his presidency run on his senate records either
how many times have you seen him give a speech about what he done in the senate ?? |
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PENJ
Former Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: | | PENJ wrote: | | Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: | In case you haven't noticed, the Swifts aren't running for President and leader of the free world on the basis of
FOUR MONTHS and a stack of LIES! |
Kerry has served as a prosecutor, he's been a senator for 20 years, and he did serve a year on the USS Gridley in addition to his albeit short service in the swift boat unit. |
But Kerry's not including that stuff much in his campaign. He's running on those four months and a fraudulent "war hero" status.
If his campaign were honest, it would focus three times as much on his tour on the Gridley and six times as much on his VVAW activities.
And SIXTY times as much on his Senatorial career!!!!
Where IS all that? |
Candidates often reach back to their past when running. In 1988, George Bush brought up the time he was shot down as a young man. On the other hand, the present George Bush speaks little of anything he did prior to 1994.
I have seen Kerry talk many times on C-Span. In the townhalls, I have in which I have seen him speak he does talk about the issues and his senate experience in dealing with them. He chose to focus on his war experience in his acceptance speech because it makes for a better speech, just like he brought his daughters on stage to talk about his saving a hamster. Legislation just isn't that exciting, but he does talk about it in Q&A. |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| PENJ wrote: | | carpro wrote: | | PENJ wrote: | | So you're saying that the SVFTs who are demanding that Kerry file a 180 have not filed a 180 themselves? |
What we're saying is, it doesn't matter.
They may have or they may not have.
None of them are representing themselves as heroes or running for president. |
Well, I personally believe that it does matter. While they may not be running for President themselves, they are trying to seriously influence the Presidential race. They are calling one of the two major candidates for the Presidency, a man chosen by Democrats to represent them, basically a liar. This has major implications for voters who may share philosophical and political views with Kerry -- or might feel that the leadership of Bush is wanting.
While they may not be running for President, they are trying to influence the race for President. |
You are also trying to influence the election and so am I. So What.
They are calling Kerry a liar because he is. There is no longer any doubt of that. (Remember Cambodia) The only thing to establish is how many things he lied about and why.
They were there. Kerry is not questioning their credentials. He knows who they are and they have him scared to death because he knows what they know and what they can tell.
When Kerry personally questtions their credentials, then maybe you can chime in with a great big...YEAH. 
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="PENJ On the other hand, the present George Bush speaks little of anything he did prior to 1994.
[/quote]
And Kerry speaks not at all of anything AFTER 1969.
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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PENJ
Former Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="The Ghost"][quote="PENJ"] | Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: |
how many times have you seen him give a speech about what he done in the senate ?? |
Again, I watched C-Span prior to the Iowa caucuses and the NH primary. In the townhalls, he rarely spoke of his Vietnam experience. Instead, he spoke of his senate experience when answering questions dealing with the issues that they raised. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| PENJ wrote: |
Again, I watched C-Span prior to the Iowa caucuses and the NH primary. In the townhalls, he rarely spoke of his Vietnam experience. Instead, he spoke of his senate experience when answering questions dealing with the issues that they raised. |
BZZZZZTTTTT!
Sorry, but that is patently untrue.
Kerry could not even visit a fishing industry port in Mississippi without it reminding him of Vietnam.
It was the butt of hundreds of late-night jokes and printed comics, because it's been clear for a very long time that Kerry has never left Vietnam.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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