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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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 Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:03 pm Post subject: Where Is our Rapid Response? |
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Everyone,
I am sorry to question O'Neill and the other swiftvets, but this is one time where we can't act in deliberation. In this one case we need to act as a political campaign and COUNTER-ATTACK NOW!
I note that the Bush campaign has already counter-attacked w/r/t to his connection (and quite properly). If we are to get the TRUTH out, we need to rapidly respond RIGHT NOW!
Come on...where are you? I hate to sound impatient, but I know just how damaging continued silence is. We literally don't have time to deliberate on this one!
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-Polaris
Truth is Beauty |
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dcrhere
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| JOHN O'NEILL, FILE THE LAWSUIT NOW! |
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hanna
Rear Admiral
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 701
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that they need to respond to all this pronto....however I don't think filing a lawsuit is the answer. It is interesting to me that he keeps calling on Bush to fight his battle for him.
Anyway hopefully the silence we hear is because they are working very hard to put something together. |
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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Moderaters (and Everyone),
Go read Raincrossconservative (the blog linked to this site). He has fisked the WaPo article.
Specifically (moderators) can you ask the swiftvets if (carefully now)
1. They hit a mine.
2. They were fired on as PCF-94 withdrew from the scene.
3. Lt (jg) Ludlow resued the man under fire
4. The fire was supressed.
5. PCF-94 Returns
6. Lt. Rassmann is rescued.
That would explain Rassman's recollection (he was indeed fired upon), LCDR Ludlow's bronze star, AND it would still be consistant with LCDR Ludlow's affidavit.
I think this is plausible....but moderaters PLEASE kick it upstairs ASAP so I know if it is TRUE.
If it is, it is the perfect counter, and the SBVFT need to publish it right away.
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Truth is Beauty |
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stealthy
Lieutenant
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Sometimes it's good to let them sit in their own juice till they make gravy.
Have faith. The truth will out.
Ever hear about the guy who was constantly complaining to God about how bad things were and begging him to do something send someone?
God said "I did, I sent you". 
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Last edited by stealthy on Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dcrhere
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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hanna, I respectfully disagree (and I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't in the game plans all along).
First of all, there's the entertainment value 
Seriously:
If O'Neill files a lawsuit claiming the SBVT's have been unfairly libeled, he can claim that the truth of the matter is in Kerry's unreleased records and simply sue to force the release of ALL Kerry's military records. And then O'Neill can step back and say they will drop the suit if Kerry signs the Form 180.
Then we sit back, have a beer, and watch the fireworks. |
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Mona
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 77
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Where Is our Rapid Response? |
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| Polaris wrote: | Everyone,
I am sorry to question O'Neill and the other swiftvets, but this is one time where we can't act in deliberation. In this one case we need to act as a political campaign and COUNTER-ATTACK NOW!
I note that the Bush campaign has already counter-attacked w/r/t to his connection (and quite properly). If we are to get the TRUTH out, we need to rapidly respond RIGHT NOW!
Come on...where are you? I hate to sound impatient, but I know just how damaging continued silence is. We literally don't have time to deliberate on this one! |
I know you are very upset by this latest turn of events, but I sincerely believe you should calm down and look at the big picture. The SBVTs finally made the front page of a major news organ. This is an admission that the story cannot be ignored by the MSM. You have the Kerry Campaign very, very focused on the issues you wanted them focused on. Ignoring the Swiftees is not remotely an option.
John O'Neill is a very smart guy with decades of experience as a litigator. He knew something untoward was going to happen when one is dealing with the testimony of some 60 people, and there are always bumps like this even when one is defending the most meritorious client. It is to be expected.
He will not be left speechless, and there are several months left for this story to develop -- but now it is doing so on the front pages of such as WaPo. O'Neill has impressed me as very sophisticated, and I would strongly urge you to trust him to have planned for contingencies just like this.
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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Mona,
I am impressed with O'Neill, but I am concerned that in this case he is thinking like a lawyer. I very good one no doubt, but I have worked grass-roots political campaigns before (when I was much younger...and yes as a liberal Dem if you can believe it). I know just how critical rapid response is...and right now we are starting to look flatfooted (and thus guilty of all the charges Kerry has leveled against us).
Even a sound-bite right now is better than a lengthy response tomorrow (because no one will care by then). Sorry to say, but that's politics.
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Mona
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 77
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| dcrhere wrote: | hanna, I respectfully disagree (and I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't in the game plans all along).
First of all, there's the entertainment value
Seriously:
If O'Neill files a lawsuit claiming the SBVT's have been unfairly libeled, he can claim that the truth of the matter is in Kerry's unreleased records and simply sue to force the release of ALL Kerry's military records. And then O'Neill can step back and say they will drop the suit if Kerry signs the Form 180.
Then we sit back, have a beer, and watch the fireworks. |
There isn't time for that. Document production in litigation takes months. The various motions Kerry could file to procrastinate could go on endlessly. No sort of litigation will resolve the issues for either side, because there is not time.
John O'Neill knows what he is doing. In my opinion, he has so far handled the charge quite masterfully, and I expect he will continue to do so.
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Can anyone really say that this move to commence the discrediting process couldn't have been or wasn't anticipated? It seems like an obvious first step...their media flunkies FOIA everything they can get their hands on, find a seeming inconsistency, then tout it for all it's worth above the fold. I find it difficult to imagine that SBVT wasn't prepared for this. |
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sevry
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Polaris wrote: | 1. They hit a mine.
2. They were fired on as PCF-94 withdrew from the scene.
3. Lt (jg) Ludlow resued the man under fire
4. The fire was supressed.
5. PCF-94 Returns
6. Lt. Rassmann is rescued.
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I'm obviously not a moderator. But I think it's fairly well known that the witnesses not supporting Kerry insist that there was no return fire, that day. Apparently the flotilla/squadron encountered a net. They were allowed a narrow passage around. And when they went that route, a watermine exploded damaging PCF 3. They opened up on both sides, in case this was prelude to an ambush. But no fire was returned from shore. In the meanwhile, Rassman sitting at the rear of Kerry's boat was inadvertently launched overboard as Kerry sped away, seemingly in fright. Meanwhile, two other boats came alongside the 3 boat to steady it, and the third undamaged Swift boat went around to pull out the men who had been tossed overboard. Rassman, probably fearing the propellers of these PCFs, ducked down to the river bed. Apparently he did this twice. Upon resurfacing the second time, he was spotted. But before Chenowith could reach him, Kerry sped back in and 'saved Rassman's life', as they both tell it. |
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lolajl
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Where Is our Rapid Response? |
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| Mona wrote: |
John O'Neill is a very smart guy with decades of experience as a litigator. He knew something untoward was going to happen when one is dealing with the testimony of some 60 people, and there are always bumps like this even when one is defending the most meritorious client. It is to be expected.
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Yes, exactly. Couple weeks ago I read a blog post from a lawyer who was involved in a trial case where O'Neill was the witness for the other side. The lawyer knew well enough not to go toe to toe to him because he would simply get demolnished. I came across the link on Instapundit. Unfortunately, I din't bookmark it.
Also, keep an eye on the Bush campaign as to how they're going to respond. I think there's going to be an unconventional response, but how I don't know. |
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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Sevry,
Here's the problem:
Then LT (jg) Ludlow's citation does include enemy fire and it stretches credulity to believe he didn't read it at the time (or have it read which is usual). If he wasn't under fire, then why didn't he say so then and there?
We have to answer that question, forcibly and then counter-attack (which we now have the MSM spotlight to do...for just a few more hours).
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-Polaris
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sevry
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | | Can anyone really say that this move to commence the discrediting process couldn't have been or wasn't anticipated? It seems like an obvious first step...their media flunkies FOIA everything they can get their hands on, find a seeming inconsistency, then tout it for all it's worth above the fold. I find it difficult to imagine that SBVT wasn't prepared for this. |
I would think the ONLY surprise would be that Thurlow knew of the wording of the citation and didn't object at the time, or tell anyone in the last year or so, at least. There's been a lot of fabrication from the leftwing 'mainstream'. This could be more of it. When caught, the Wash Post might just say - oh,well. No one's perfect. Meanwhile . . .
It could just be a completely phony story. They could simply be referring to 'spot reports' that Kerry wrote. |
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sevry
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Polaris wrote: | Sevry,
Then LT (jg) Ludlow's citation does include enemy fire |
How do we know that? He doesn't have a copy. He apparently doesn't remember it saying that. |
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