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McCain then and McCain now

 
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magliano
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:02 pm    Post subject: McCain then and McCain now Reply with quote

Here is what John McCain had to say in an interview shortly after his release as a POW:

"All through this period, the "gooks" were bombarding us with antiwar quotes from people in high places back in Washington. This was the most effective propaganda they had to use against us-speeches and statements by men who were generally respected in the United States.

They used Senator Fulbright a great deal, and Senator Brooke. Ted Kennedy was quoted again and again, as was Averell Harriman. Clark Clifford was another favorite,right after he had been Secretary of Defense under President Johnson."

Now the same John McCain calls those who are trying to expose John Kerry as a major contributor of that propaganda "dishonest and dishonorable". I respect anyone who has endured the hardship of being a POW but can anyone explain to me what makes John McCain tick?
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LubyStarling
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Winter Haven,Fl.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:25 pm    Post subject: John McCain Reply with quote

There is a fraternity among officers that goes beyond the loyalty of troops to their fellow soldiers. Officers will lean over into the shadows of the law to protect other officers from bad publicity, from criminal charges,etc. just because it would reflect badly on the integrity and ethics of all military officers. It's why a lot of bad chaf isn't weeded out out of the active ranks. If college or officer candidate school didn't disqualify them with poor grades, they must be good officers I guess is the point they'll stick to philosophically. It's not a good overall scheme as many factors mandate good leadership and command.
Intelligence is worthless if it's manipulated. Proof is in $7000 hammers and toilet seats. It's dumb officers who think that such as that won't eventually bounce out of the General Services Administration no matter the family ties or political connections surrounding such incidents. Swiftvets are bouncing out John Kerrys oversights and shortcomings. John McCain is trying to be loyal to the rank even if the person behind the rank smells that way. John McCain made a mistake.he doesn't make a lot. LC
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Theresa Alwood
Rear Admiral


Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 631
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I lost ALL respect for John McCain when he came out and dissed the swiftvets without getting the truth. John McCain's anger over his run for the GOP is still evident. I think one of the reasons we have not heard much from McCain in the past week or so is he go slammed with e-mails from vets. I know I e-mailed him. He should have gotten the facts first. I did not hear him complain about moveon.org or MM - he lost any and all respect at that moment. Freedom on Speech is just not for the DNC, liberal left and the MSM
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jwb7605
Rear Admiral


Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 690
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theresa Alwood wrote:
I lost ALL respect for John McCain when he came out and dissed the swiftvets without getting the truth. John McCain's anger over his run for the GOP is still evident. I think one of the reasons we have not heard much from McCain in the past week or so is he go slammed with e-mails from vets. I know I e-mailed him. He should have gotten the facts first. I did not hear him complain about moveon.org or MM - he lost any and all respect at that moment. Freedom on Speech is just not for the DNC, liberal left and the MSM

I think John McCain means well, and does his best.
I think Jimmy Carter meant well, and did his best.

I think both of them made some bad decisions: campaign finance reform, and foreign policy posturing, respectively.

I actually LIKE both men, but respect neither.
I LOVE my wife, but would never vote for her.
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Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me suggest a second interpretation:

John McCain served honorably as a Navy flier, suffered tremendously as a POW and emerged with his honor intact when he came home.

John McCain, as a Senator, has failed miserably to live up to his performance as a Navy flier. If nothing else, in spite of the fact that SBVT benefits from it, his "Campaign Finance Reform Act" was one of the worst laws passed in the last 150 years. Were it not for Sen. McCain, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth would not even have to register as a 527 group in order to make their position known to the American people during an election year.

I submit that there are two John McCains.
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jwb7605
Rear Admiral


Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 690
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott wrote:
Let me suggest a second interpretation:

John McCain served honorably as a Navy flier, suffered tremendously as a POW and emerged with his honor intact when he came home.

John McCain, as a Senator, has failed miserably to live up to his performance as a Navy flier. If nothing else, in spite of the fact that SBVT benefits from it, his "Campaign Finance Reform Act" was one of the worst laws passed in the last 150 years. Were it not for Sen. McCain, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth would not even have to register as a 527 group in order to make their position known to the American people during an election year.

I submit that there are two John McCains.

I stand semi-corrected.
You're 100% on the money on the POW issue.
You're 100% on the money on the Campaign Reform issue, also.

I do respect Carter, now that he's no longer president, for the "Habitat for Humanity" effort. That's a great endeavor.
I do respect McCain for his behavior as a POW. No way could I have been that stoic.

A book called "The Peter Principle" came out while I was in the service.
I think both men 'rose to their level of incompetence' ... politics.
I wish McCain would find something else to do ... he's a good man, but a poor lawmaker.
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JN173
Commander


Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 341
Location: Anchorage, Alaska

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to respect McCain for turning down the opurtunity the North Vietnamese offered him for early release because of his father's position.

I just can't understand how someone who refused release because of the impact it would have had on the morale of his fellow POWs can support someone who deserted his men and ran after 3 tiny scratches. Confused
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NAV307
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Rio Verde and Lakeside, Arizona

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to raise a question ... I cannot remember what site had the information ... but it was that John McCain is virtually the only returning prisoner of war who refuses to release his "debriefing documents" ... debriefings being standard policy for all returning POW's. Much like Kerry's failure to sign the 180 form. If correct ... then it suggests some content ... just as in Kerry's case ... that all is not right.

Personally ... as one of his constituents ... who has written several times ... including as a result of his Swiftboat outburst ... and who has received one form letter response ... I think he is a man who was elected and reelected on the basis of his POW status only. His vilification of the tobacco industry for individual smoker's personal actions ... and his stand on second amendment issues ... helping to kill the Gun Manufacurers Indemnification Act (not the name I know) ... by adding his gun show amendment ... the gun show loophole bill in and of itself ... and his joining with Feingold on the first bill to really begin to take the Constitution apart is the mark of a dangerous man.

Being part of the Republican effort to reelect Bush ... and then to comment about Swiftboat Vets without time to even begin to understand what was said is ... traitorous to the reelection effort. And don't forget that when he was mentioned as a possible VP candidate for Kerry ... he didn't say "Hell no!" ... he didn't even say"no" ... he said , something like ... I don't think that Senator Kerry would consider me for that position. (not a quote, simply as I recall).

John McCain is a man who fought honorably for our country, and endured unspeakable treatment at the hands of his captors. That does not mean everything he has done since, or is currently supporting is good. IMO he is absolutely a Republican In Name Only.

And a question ... since he knows what being a POW means ... why did he support ... with Senator John Kerry ... the actions to stop the efforts to search, etc. for the suspected POW's still alive in Vietnam. And if I'm not mistaken, support Kerry's attempts to normalize relations there? It doesn't wash with me.

AA
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