SwiftVets.com

[BillGremm]

[/b]IF YOU ARE A PROMINENT PERSON AND ARE ASKED TO APPEAR ON A TV OR RADIO PROGRAM BECAUSE YOU ARE SYMPATHETIC TO THE SWIFT BOAT VETS (RIGHTFULLY SO PLEASE HAVE YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT...OR RECOMMEND SOMEONE ELSE WHO DOES.
I HEARD MICHAEL REAGAN ON HANNITY AND COLMES. HE AND HANNITY GOT ATE UP BY ALAN AND THE KERRY ROBOT. WHEN THEY BROUGHT UP ELLIOT AND LONDSDALE SUPPORT OF KERRY IN 1996 - IMMEDIATELY MY WIFE AND I WERE SCREAMING AT THE XM RADIO THINGS LIKE "ELLIOT AND LONSDALE WERE NOT TOLD THE TRUTH CONCERNING THE ACTIONS OF KERRY WHEN HE ONE THE SILVER STAR , AND WHEN THEY LATER LEARNED IT VIA KERRY'S AUTHORIZED BIOGRAPHY THEY BLEW THEIR NAVY STACKS"
JOHN O'NEILL HAS IT RIGHT. WHEN YOU ARE CHALLENGED BY SOMEONE WITH A LIE---YOU IMMEDIATELY CALL IT A LIE.
WHEN REAGAN AND HANNITY ARE TOLD THAT THERE IS A LINK BETWEEN THE GOP AND THE SBVFT--IMMEDIATELY AND AT THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS THEY SHOULD SAY "THAT IS A LIE" AND DEMAND PROOF.
WHEN THEY ARE TOLD THAT THE NAVY DOCUMENTATION SIDES WITH KERRY....IMMEDIATELY AND WITH FORCE SAY "THAT IS A LIE, JOHN KERRY WILL NOT SIGN FORM 180 TO RELEASE ALL OF WHAT THE NAVY HAS TO SAY----AND THEN ADD THAT KERRY HAS BROKEN ALL THE RULES OF HONESTY AND INTEGRITY BY ACTING AS HIS OWN PRIMARY WITNESS WHEN HE PRESENTED HIS ACTS TO THE NAVY FOR COMMENDATION .
I HAVE GOT TO GO BUY MORE TO COME.
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Up - Down, In - Out, Black - White, Truth - Kerry

[Beatrice1000]

[quote="BillGremm"][/b]IF YOU ARE A PROMINENT PERSON AND ARE ASKED TO APPEAR ON A TV OR RADIO PROGRAM BECAUSE YOU ARE SYMPATHETIC TO THE SWIFT BOAT VETS (RIGHTFULLY SO PLEASE HAVE YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT...OR RECOMMEND SOMEONE ELSE WHO DOES.[b] /quote]

Exactly my thoughts. It's good that Michael has come in on this side, but that specific questioning about particular testimonies should have been deferred to the people being accused so they could speak for themselves. Hope someone talks to him. One thing the Swifts are NOT doing here is being abstract or theorizing. They are speaking honest facts. They should be allowed to continue to do that without help that can be, at times, unhelpful.

[Swing Voter]

First Im not a veteran, but deeply appreciate everyones service. My grandfather served in Korea and Viet Nam. I generally vote Republican during Fed races, mainly based on the gun control and entitlements. However, I have and will vote for Democrats in State and Local elections.

I have watched this SBVT development CLOSELY. Since before Kerry rode the Harley onto Leno's set I have despised John Kerry and who he was and claims to be.

I was three years old in 1971.

I want to cry when I see his testimony.

My grandfather never would say anything about being in Viet Nam and Korea. I remeber asking and the entire room going quiet. He always just said it was something I didnt want to hear.

As I have grown up, I have always heard the nasty stories about Viet Nam. I always wondered if my grandfather was a part of it. Was my grandfather a "baby killer"?

I wish he were alive today, so I could apologize for even asking myself that question.

I wish I could put an old-fashioned Arkansas azz-whoopin on John Kerry.

It appears after I have grown up, and witnessed true reflection of Viet Nam by the people who were there, that Viet Nam Veterans are no different from any other war veteran. In except that a few of them were against having to go to war, do your duty, and possibly die. They and John Kerry lied.

John Kerry was the mouth piece for Un-American cowards.

A significant portion of my life I secretly asked my self if my grandfather was the kind of person who would kill a non-combatant because of John Kerry.

Anyhow, when the primaries started I happened to see some program on Kerry. I could not believe he would say what he said, I thought he must have been a true grunt who was "in the Sh1t" as the movies say, a man who saw it all in nam.

Enter SBVT.

I think the SBVT have done a greater service to America by changing our attitude toward Viet Nam than any sitting president could ever do.

And they have done it just by showing Kerry footage.

Everything the SBVT could be proven false.(I dont think it will be.)

Fine, I dont believe anything they say Mr. Kerry.

Now that you have ridiculed veterans again and called them political hacks and liars working illegally for a sitting president......Mr. Kerry could you tell me why you said the things you said about my grandfather, did the things you did to incite spitting at my grandfather, and made unconnected Americans ashamed of my grandfather, but now you want to say that your service in-country is important and sterling, you are a war hero, and your experience there makes you a good person for the job of president?



But the reason I posted on this thread is because John Oniell needs to be the only person to represent you guys.

Everyone else is screwing this up. They let Kerryheads say things that are untrue. Mathews Combs etc will quit saying things if you look at them and call them a liar.....at the right time.

For instance, Combs says "A Rpub from TX contributed......", fine let it ride(as opposed to Combs saying "A Dem from TX contributed..."), but then thewy stretch it to "The SBVTs, a surrogate of the Bush Camp...

STOP THIS MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Start calling people on things.

MM on Hardball did more to hurt the Vets than anything the Kerry camp has said.

She is an idiot.

Shot himself on purpose?!?!?! Self-inflicted.?!?!?!?!?!??!

What court in America, after a parade of eyewitnesses both sides would produce, would not say that Kerry in fact had a self-inflicted wound?

Yet MM, lets Mathews gets viewers to think she and the SBVT are saying Kerry purposely shot himself, had a bullet wound, and did it so he could run for president. UNBELIEVABLE!

She's an idiot.

John Oniell may not get much sleep until Nov 3, but he has to be the one to represent in the big arenas.

Thanks for what you are doing Vets, I salute everyone of you.

[You GottaBeKidding]

Michelle Malkin is not an idiot. She got railroaded into talking about Unfit for Command, which wasn't why she was scheduled to be on the show.

Then Matthews proceeded to turn "self-inflicted wound" into "shot himself on purpose" and he wouldn't give her time to think about something she wasn't prepared for because she wasn't supposed to be discussing this.

BTW, it's Alan Colmes...

[manofaiki]

Sir, you are incorrect.

Michelle Malkin NEVER SAID KERRY SHOT HIMSELF ON PURPOSE.

For the facts, I direct you to

michellemalkin.com

Her blog report on her experience with Matthews is about halfway down the page.

She reported what the book Unfit For Command stated, that many veterans who served with Kerry claimed at least two of his Purple Heart wounds were self -inflicted.

IMMEDIATELY Chris Matthew accused her of saying she meant John Kerry 'shot himself on purpose'.

She never said that. That is a total lie, and when she kept trying to talk to explain what she meant by 'self-inflicted', HE kept interrupting her.

Because she would not back down and let him accuse her of saying Kerry shot himself on purpose, MATTHEWS THREW HER OFF OF HIS SHOW.

You say some good things in your post, I am merely saying watch the interview again carefully and you will never see Michelle say Kerry shot himself on purpose. As a matter of fact, she gets agitated when Matthews interrupts her repeatedly to claim that is what she meant.

manofaiki
_________________
"If any man has not the stomach for this fight, let him depart from us.! We would not die in that man's company!"

You bugged out in Vietnam - so we don't need you commanding us in the War on Terror!

So get lost, John Kerry!!!!!

[mjanay]

I Don't agree that O'neil should be the only spokesperson, not at all.

BUT these guys need to learn (and they can, its not hard to do) HOW to answer attacks. It is the art of debate.

The truth means VERY VERY little. The fact is that the Kerry Campaign uses logical fallacies to back up their statements and assertions. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT LIES!!!

Logical Fallacies are techniques to move the argument away from fact.

Read this link: http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html

To start to understand how they are doing what they are doing.

The SBVT need to start calling Hurley (especially) on his fallacious statements (remember, I'm not talking about his lies) like Ad Hominem Attacks, Red Herring Arguments, and Circular arguments. He uses Circular arguments or "Circulus in demonstrando" when he says that kerry citations and awards are accurate because the naval documents say so. The fact that Kerry is supported by naval docs means nothing because it is Kerry's statements in those naval docs that are disputed. The logic is circular.

Circular arguments appear a lot in debate, but they are not always so easy to spot as the example above. They are always illegitimate, though, and pointing them out looks really good if you can do it. The best strategy for pointing out a circular argument is to make sure you can state clearly the proposition being proven, and then pinpoint where that proposition appears in the proof. A good summing up statement is, "In other words, they are trying to tell us that X is true because X is true! But they have yet to tell us why it's true."

Also, the SBVT need to use a questioning technique called "The Porcupine". It is answering a question right back with another question. Like when Hurley says "They are a republican group" the answer shouldn't be "No we're not", it should be "Who do you think should be supporting us?" He'll then say something like "No One" and you shoot back with "Do you believe that 250 Veterans, eyewitnesses, don't have the right to tell the truth, and set the record straight?" He'll claim "you are lying and all documents prove you are" or something like that and then they've got him. The SBVT simply respond "If all the docs prove we're lying, Well then why won't Kerry sign the 180 and let the American people decide?"

The Porcupine puts them on the defensive, they are the ones that have to think up answers instead of you guys.

I'm good at this, and I'd love to volunteer to train any SBVT in these techniques and debate.

How can I help?

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

Good points! I absolutely agree that John O'Neill must not be the only one out there - there are other Swifts who represent the organization beautifully - I've seen O'Dell, (Odell?) Gardner, Thurlow, Hoffman and Elder absolutely ROCK. I'm sure there are others, but I can't remember them all.

Michelle Malkin did NOT allow Chrissie-boy to push her into saying that Kerry "shot himself." She was barely allowed to get a word in edgewise.

He gets McAuliffe on his show and is cloying and synchophantic, but put a "little girl" (his words) or any other Swift supporter in front of him and he will NOT allow them to speak.

The porcupine treatment sounds like a great idea.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[mjanay]

The Porcupine is great, its actually a sales technique.

All it takes is preperation and practice.

The SBVT I've seen are all very impressive men, and the Media and the Kerry campaign are counting on them being unpolished and stupid. They aren't, but they certainly aren't as experienced in debate or public speaking as the Kerry puppets are. That is a MAJOR advantage for the SBVT! They are underestimated.

Jesse Venture had a great line about how he beat the mainstream candidates for Gov. He said that they thought since he never finished college he was stupid, but he was a Navy Seal, and the only stupid Navy Seal is a dead Navy Seal.

[stealthy]

What is the hedgehog? I've heard that refered to before.

BTW- SV- Your grandpa was a good man. We're trying to set that record straight and at the same time (for me) stop those who are trying to do the same thing over Iraq. It's a twofer.
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American Conservative

[mjanay]

I believe its the same as the porcupine... Answering a question with a question to keep control.

Its also been called the Hot Potato and the ping pong.

[Scott]

[mjanay]

True, but Psychologists (my wife is one) ask more general probing questions like "How does that make you feel?" and "Can you tell me more".

The Porcupine is a technique to get to a close. Asking leading questions as answers to other questions to get closer and closer to the final question or agreement.

Its a lot harder. The SBVT need to start using this when they are interviewed. It will almost IMMEDIATELY show the world how disingeniuos the Kerry campaign is.

They need to start answering the questions not shifting it and making the SBVT prove their assertions.

Facts can always be challenged, SBVT need to make the best challenge, and use the most direct arguments. This has nothing to do with being right or wrong.

They need to make an assertion of fact and then instead of getting in to a shouting match, demonstrate why the Kerry Puppets argument holds no water.

Kerry's arguments are basically Ad Hominems, Straw Man Arguments, Circular Arguments, Red Herrings, and their favorite, the Tu Quoque (you too) thats defending an error in one's reasoning by pointing out that one's opponent has made the same error. An error is still an error, regardless of how many people make it.

[sevry]

[jwb7605]

[4moreyears]

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kerry returned to the United States on July 22, 1971, held a press conference publicly calling on President Nixon... for the surrender of the United States to North Vietnam.