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Dafydd Seaman Recruit
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 6
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:37 am Post subject: Intelligence question -- slightly off-topic |
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The guys over at Powerlineblog have been challenged by a Kerry supporter to find, within one week, any information at all about the Army Field Activities Command, a clandestine military intelligence group (almost certainly counterintelligence) that was eventually merged in 1972 into the 902d Military Intelligence Group (which is CI, which is why I assume the older organization was also CI).
The challenge stems from reporter (and Kerry defender) Jim Boyd on the Minneapolis Star Tribune, who is defending Kerry's claims of multiple clandestine trips to Cambodia by saying, in essence, that since no information ever gets out about secret organizations, there is no way to prove that Kerry is lying about his excellent adventures.
Let's prove him wrong! I suggest that a huge amount of information exists out there, both on the Internet and in connections to people who have personal experience with it, about any organization that ever existed... even clandestine ones. Since the Army Field Activities Command no longer exists -- and since the 902d MI Group has its own Website and can hardly be denied to exist -- there's no danger of compromising security by discussing the command's history and purpose.
So, anybody out there have any experience with or knowledge of the Army Field Activities Command and care to share?
Thanks, _________________ Dafydd ab Hugh |
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Dafydd Seaman Recruit
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 6
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:48 pm Post subject: Wow, NO responses? |
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Yeesh, Power Line readers did better than you guys!
They managed to find out the name of one of the commanders of the command. _________________ Dafydd ab Hugh |
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PO2 Ensign
Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 67 Location: TX USA
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:11 pm Post subject: MI in Vietnam. |
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During the Vietnam war, there were numerous classified activities throughout country. There were operations such as SOG (Studies and observation Group) which went behind enemy lines. That would be who would do the types of missions of which Kerry brags. Most MI operations involved such things as evesdropping on enemy communications, interogation of POWs, monitoring various sensor systems. The group mentioned by you could be one of these monitoring groups, but I did not state that.
SOG and SEALs did go into areas typically denied to US forces (Such as into the Rung Sat Special Zone and the Iron Triangle) Typically, for security reasons the SEALS used their own STABs (SEAL Team assault boats) which were specially designed for covert insertions. The other vehicles they used were usually in friendly terrirtory (if there was such a thing over there) and were only for cover on insertions. SOG typically started operations by either air transpoetation (Huey) or LPC (Leather Personnel Carrier)
Neither SEALS nor SOG were MI. They did, however, provide valuable information to the MIG (MI Group) I believe the exact mission of certain MI units in Vietnam is still classified.
Capt. MI _________________ Duty. Honor. Country.
To me, more than just words. |
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Herb Lieutenant
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 213 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Intelligence question -- slightly off-topic |
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Dafydd wrote: | The guys over at Powerlineblog have been challenged by a Kerry supporter to find, within one week, any information at all about the Army Field Activities Command, a clandestine military intelligence group (almost certainly counterintelligence) that was eventually merged in 1972 into the 902d Military Intelligence Group (which is CI...
The challenge stems from reporter (and Kerry defender) Jim Boyd on the Minneapolis Star Tribune, who is defending Kerry's claims of multiple clandestine trips to Cambodia by saying, in essence, that since no information ever gets out about secret organizations, there is no way to prove that Kerry is lying about his excellent adventures.
So, anybody out there have any experience with or knowledge of the Army Field Activities Command and care to share?
Thanks, |
No, not personally.
Here's a guy whose resume says he once was an officer there:
Wyatt B. Kirby, Southeast Region Chief Information Officer, Network Enterprise Technology Command, (NETCOM)
https://www.technologyforums.com/redstone/bios.asp
His company contact info is here (and you can likely guess his email if he has one there: https://www.technologyforums.com/contact_us/
Here is: A Preliminary Who’s Who of US Army Military Intelligence
with two references to those in Army Field Activities Command
http://usaic.hua.army.mil/History/PDFS/whoswho.pdf
The following search at Google will get you more web references to the 902nd than you can read this week:
[ 902nd | 902d "Military Intelligence Group" | "MI Group" ]
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=902nd+%7C+902d+%22Military+Intelligence+Group%22+%7C+%22MI+Group%22&btnG=Search
And how about an ONLINE-PUBLIC FIELD MANUAL that references it historically (not much more than what you say) but it is public and official:
http://www.army.mil/cmh/books/DAHSUM/1973/chV.htm
V.
Intelligence and Communications
Intelligence
During fiscal year 1973 there were a number of developments in the intelligence field concerning prisoner of war, attaché, organization, collection, investigation, automation, classification, documentary, and security matters.
On 27 January 1973, the Communists in Vietnam released a list of American prisoners of war. Fifteen days later seventeen of these were turned over to American authorities at Loc Ninh, Republic of Vietnam. Fifty-nine other Army men, including Major Floyd J. Thompson, who had been a prisoner of war longer than any other American in history, were released in Hanoi in three subsequent increments. One other prisoner of war, Captain Robert White, was released alone in the Mekong Delta on 1 April 1973, the last of seventy-seven Army prisoners returned to U.S. control.
In keeping with the joint repatriation operations plan, nicknamed Operation Homecoming, each released prisoner of war was evacuated to Clark Air Force Base in the Philippines for initial processing and intelligence debriefing. The purpose of this debriefing which, for Army personnel, was conducted by the 500th Military Intelligence Group, was to obtain information on missing and captured American personnel who were not being repatriated by the enemy. After a brief stay in the Philippines, returnees were evacuated by air to one of eight Army hospitals in the continental United States or Hawaii for medical treatment and detailed debriefing. Agents of the U.S. Army Intelligence Command, each selected and trained to debrief a specific individual, conducted detailed interviews of all Army returnees in the continental United States. Three Army men from the Pacific area were debriefed at Tripler Army Hospital in Hawaii by members of the 500th Military Intelligence Group.
From information obtained through returnee debriefings, the Army resolved the status of a number of prisoners of war and missing-in-action personnel. Still there were 350 Army men missing in Southeast Asia as the year closed, and efforts to account for them continued, with the joint Casualty Resolution Center in Thailand particularly involved in the search.
51
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Information acquired from the returned prisoners of war revealed much about Communist interrogation techniques and use of torture, deprivation, and psychological pressure to break the resistance of prisoners.
The project to purge the files of the U.S. Army Investigative Records Repository (USAIRR) of unauthorized materials was stepped up in fiscal year 1973. The monthly screening rate increased from approximately 50,000 files in September 1972 to 250,000 in May 1973. By the close of the fiscal year about 25 percent of the holdings had been screened, 57 percent of the files that were reviewed had been eliminated, and 4.2 million files remained to be reviewed. Prior to January 1973, the screening was performed by operational personnel of the USAIRR as an additional duty. In January 1973 fifty enlisted personnel were assigned full time to the project, and in May 1973 an additional seventy-five military personnel were authorized to begin work no later than July. The Intelligence Command expected to complete the screening by 15 March 1974.
Because of an urgent need to reduce the file holdings of the USAIRR before its move from Fort Holabird, Maryland, to Fort George G. Meade, Maryland, authority was requested of the Archivist of the United States to change the retention period for favorable Army personnel security investigations from thirty to fifteen years after the last action. As exceptions, files containing an adverse action against an individual would be retained permanently, and files of personnel who were being considered for employment with the Department of Defense, but who never joined, would be destroyed one year after completion. The request was approved on 26 April 1973, and the policy was implemented. As a result of this policy, the estimated file holdings of 6.7 million dossiers should be reduced by nearly 59 percent and substantial savings achieved in manpower, funds, and space.
Counterintelligence personnel from the Office of the Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence visited thirteen commands during the fiscal year to insure that the instructions of June 1971, which restricted the collection of information about persons and organizations affiliated with the Department of Defense, were being observed. No violations or discrepancies were noted, and unit personnel at all levels were found to be fully aware of and observant of the policy.
Pursuant to the action to terminate area intelligence collection activities, the U.S. Army Field Activities Command was disestablished in November 1972 and its remaining responsibilities assumed by the 902d Military Intelligence Group.
Significant progress was made during the year on the Army's portion of the presidentially directed Records Declassification Program. Over 1,900 linear feet of pre-World War 11 and World War II intelligence _________________ Herb |
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Me#1You#10 Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004 Posts: 6503
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Intelligence question -- slightly off-topic |
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Dafydd wrote: | The challenge stems from reporter (and Kerry defender) Jim Boyd on the Minneapolis Star Tribune, who is defending Kerry's claims of multiple clandestine trips to Cambodia by saying, in essence, that since no information ever gets out about secret organizations, there is no way to prove that Kerry is lying about his excellent adventures.
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Isn't this just an absurd suggestion on it's face? I can see it now. The spooks bypass the entire chain of command to co-ordinate an insertion into Cambodia directly with a junior Ltjg? Have I got the picture? |
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Dafydd Seaman Recruit
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 6
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:11 pm Post subject: Thanks, guys! |
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I put all this together with the earlier hits and came up with what I think is a relatively good description of the Army Field Activities Command, certainly enough to make it clear to Mr. Boyd that one indeed can discover a wealth of information about even clandestine organizations on the Web.
As I wrote to PowerLine:
"However, it would appear from all this that the Army Field Activities Command was a counter-intelligence unit in the Vietnam era, ultimately swallowed up by the 902d Military Intelligence Command, which was also CI; that the AFAC engaged in 'eavesdropping on enemy communications, interogation of POWs, monitoring various sensor systems;' and that at least on of its major operations was to develop cover stories and cover-support programs and train agents in their use in all regions of the world (definitely including Europe, Latin America, and Southeast Asia). Several of its operatives were Wyatt B. Kirby, Col. Jerry G. Wetherill, and Chief Warrant Officer Robert A. Leigh, the latter two being members of the MI Hall of Fame."
And yes, Me#1You#10... it is an absurd and facile claim that Jim Boyd makes. But like the SwiftVets, I've always thought the best way to rebut such absurd claims is by mustering as many facts that dispute them as possible.
Thanks again, everyone! _________________ Dafydd ab Hugh |
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