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drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
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 Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:04 pm Post subject: O'Reilly Topic - Please post comments here |
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It really makes me nuts. At 12:55 pm EDT O'Reilly said that Kerry hadn't attacked Bush for his Guard service.
It's bad enough that he demeans the Swifties without a fair hearing, but talk about your atrocities... 
Admin note:
As O'Reilly appears to be an inexhaustable source for topics in this forum, I'm taking the liberty of hijacking this topic and creating a central repository for O'Reilly rants.
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one more captins mast
LCDR
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 438
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:33 pm Post subject: Poor mission planing!! |
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He did not read the book nor does he know he is up aginst this
vietnam group that knows about ambushes and are very good
at mission planing.
We need to find the Kerry quote and post it here on this site
with O/real/ly comments today , "KERRY HAS NEVER SAID ANY
THING BAD ABOUT BUSH SERVICE RECORD" AND DO IT BEFORE
THEY CATCH ON AND CHANGE THE TAPE OF HIS SHOW WHEN
SOME ONE LIKE HUGH HEWITT CALLS ASKING.
THIS GUY O/REAL/LY is in a spider hole and comes up only
to shoot some one in the back from time to time and
ITS HIS TIME
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the strange mr aj |
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drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:46 pm Post subject: this is what O'Reilly needs to read |
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"I think a lot of veterans are going to be very angry at a president who can't account for his own service in the National Guard and a vice president who got every deferment in the world and decided they had better things go do, criticizing somebody who fought for their country and served."
John Kerry April 2004
"The issue here, as I have heard it raised, is was he present and active on duty in Alabama at the times he was supposed to be? I don't have the answer to that question."
John Kerry Feb 2004 |
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Dimsdale
Captain
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 527
Location: Massachusetts: the belly of the beast
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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From the most trivial of Google searches:
| Quote: | | "Those of us who were in the military wonder how it is that someone who is supposedly serving on active duty...can miss a whole year of service without even explaining where it went," said [Senator John] Kerry. |
| Quote: | | Mr. Kerry made a similar argument on ABC's "Good Morning America" when asked whether he actually threw away his medals or just his ribbons on the Capitol lawn in protest of the Vietnam War. He said the story comes from "a Republican Party that can't even answer whether or not [Mr. Bush] showed up for duty in the National Guard." |
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040428-120852-4376r.htm
| Quote: | "This is a controversy that the Republicans are pushing," Mr. Kerry said on "Good Morning America" on ABC. "The Republicans have spent $60 million in the last few weeks trying to attack me, and this comes from a president and a Republican Party that can't even answer whether or not he showed up for duty in the National Guard. I'm not going to stand for it."
Later in the day, Mr. Kerry challenged what he called attacks on his military record from Republicans who did not fight in Vietnam.
"I did obviously fight in Vietnam, and I was wounded there, and I served there and was very proud of my service," Mr. Kerry said. "To have these people, all of whom made a different choice, attack me for it is obviously disturbing." |
Here is the kicker:
| Quote: | | "When they start questioning what I did or didn't do 35 years ago, or said, on a personal level, I'm going to fight back," he told NBC News. "If George Bush wants to ask me questions about that through his surrogates, he owes America an explanation about whether or not he showed up for duty in the National Guard. Prove it." |
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0427-01.htm
Mighty quick to call for Bush to prove things while he sits on over 96% of his military record. Bush released all of his.
_________________
Everytime he had a choice, Kerry chose to side with communists rather than the United States. |
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Dimsdale
Captain
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 527
Location: Massachusetts: the belly of the beast
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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More.
From Kerry's web site, http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0427b.html
| Quote: | Key Unanswered Questions: Bush’s Record In The National Guard
For Immediate Release
“If George Bush wants to ask me questions about that through his surrogates, he owes America an explanation about whether or not he showed up for duty in the National Guard. Prove it. That's what we ought to have. I'm not going to stand around and let them play games.” -- John Kerry, NBC News, 4/26/04
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Bush Has Said He Used No Special Treatment To Get Into The Guard. How Does He Explain The Fact That He Jumped Ahead Of 150 Applicants Despite Low Pilot Aptitude Scores?
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Col. Albert Lloyd Said A Report From Alabama To Ellington Should Have Been Filed. Where Is That Report?
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Why Did Bush Miss His Medical Exam In 1972?
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Where Are The Complete Results Of The Required Investigation Into Bush’s Absence From The Exam?
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Why Did Bush Specifically Request To NOT Be Sent Overseas For Duty?
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Why Does The White House Say Bush Was On Base When Bush’s Superiors Had Filed A Report Saying He Was Gone For A Whole Year?
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Why Is The Pentagon Under Orders To Not Discuss Bush’s Record With Reporters?
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Where Are Bush’s Flight Logs?
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Why Hasn’t Bush Himself Demonstrated That He Showed Up For Service in Alabama?
Bush Has Said He Used No Special Treatment To Get Into The Guard. How Does He Explain The Fact That He Jumped Ahead Of 150 Applicants Despite Low Pilot Aptitude Scores?
“There was no special treatment.”
--Then-Gov. George W. Bush [Dallas Morning News, 7/4/99]
FACT: With Family Connection, Bush Got Coveted Slot in Texas Guard Shortly After Graduating from College.
A family friend of Bush’s father pulled strings to secure Bush’s spot; Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard after his student deferment ran out when he graduated from Yale in 1968. Before he graduated, Bush personally visited Col. Walter “Buck” Staudt -- the commander of the Texas Air National Guard -- to talk about the Guard. After Bush met with Staudt, he applied and was quickly accepted -- despite a waiting list of over 150 applicants. Staudt recommended Bush for a direct appointment, which allowed Bush to become a second lieutenant right out of basic training without having to go though officer candidate school. The direct appointment also cleared the way for a position in pilot training school. [New York Times, 9/27/99; Houston Chronicle, 10/10/92; Los Angeles Times, 7/4/99]
FACT: Bush Scored in 25th Percentile on Pilot Aptitude Test. When Bush applied for the Guard, his score on the Air Force pilot aptitude section, one of five on the test, was in the 25th percentile, the lowest allowed for would-be fliers. [Dallas Morning News, 7/4/99]
FACT: No Shortage of Pilots in Texas Guard. Although a Bush spokesman claimed Bush was fast-tracked because the Guard needed pilots, Charles C. Shoemake, a chief of personnel in the Texas Guard from 1972 to 1980 remembered no such shortage. “We had so many people coming in who were super-qualified,” Shoemake said. Texas Guard Historian Tom Hail said there was no apparent need to fast-track applicants. “I’ve never heard of that,” he said. “Generally they did that for doctors only, mostly because we needed extra flight surgeons.” [Los Angeles Times, 7/4/99] Col. Albert Lloyd Said A Report From Alabama To Ellington Should Have Been Filed. Where Is That Report?
FACT: Col. Lloyd: Guard Records Should Include Evidence Of Alabama Service. Lloyd also said he did not know whether Bush performed duty in Alabama. “If he did, his drill attendance should have been certified and sent to Ellington, and there would have been a record.” [Boston Globe, 5/23/00; AP, 6/24/00]
FACT: White House’s Own Expert Said Bush Should Have Done More. According to the Globe, “the White House included with the documents a memorandum from a Texas Air National Guard personnel specialist stating that the documents prove that Bush had a ‘satisfactory year’ for ‘retirement/retention’ purposes between May 27, 1972, and May 26, 1973. But that specialist, retired Lieutenant Colonel Albert C. Lloyd Jr., acknowledged in an interview last night that he evaluated Bush using the lower of two measures for rating Guard service. Guardsmen, he said, needed to serve more days to meet minimum-training requirements than to meet the lower threshold to receive retirement credit for the year. ‘Should he have done more? Yes, he should have,’ Lloyd said of Bush, who was a fighter-interceptor pilot. ‘Did he have to? No.’” [Boston Globe, 2/11/04] Why Did Bush Miss His Medical Exam In 1972?
FACT: Bush Was Suspended From Flight Duty For Failing To Take Mandated Medical Exam.
On September 29, 1972, Bush was officially suspended from flying for missing his annual medical examination. The orders note that Bush’s suspension is authorized under the guidelines presented in Air Force Manual 35-12 Para 2-29m, which reads that Bush’s local commander “will direct an investigation as to why the individual failed to accomplish the medical examination.” [Aeronautical Orders, Number 87, 29 Sept 72; AFM 35-13, Para 2-29m] Where Are The Complete Results Of The Required Investigation Into Bush’s Absence From The Exam?
FACT: The order suspending Bush from flight duty stated: “Verbal orders of the Comdr on 1 Aug 72 suspending 1STLT George W. Bush…from flying status are confirmed…Reason for Suspension: Failure to accomplish annual medical examination. Off will comply with para 2-10, AFM 35-13. Authority: Para 2-29m, AFM 35-13. [Aeronautical Orders, Number 87, 29 September 1972, emphasis added]
Para 2-29m, AFM 35-13: “When a Rated Officer Fails To Accomplish a Medical Examination Prescribed by AFM 160-1…(1)The local commander who has authority to convene a Flying Evaluation Board will direct an investigation as to why the individual failed to accomplish the medical examination. After reviewing the findings of the investigation, the local commander may convene a Flying Evaluation Board or forward through command channels a detailed report of the circumstances which resulted in the officer’s failure to accomplish a medical examination, along with a recommendation that the suspension be removed. (2) The individual’s major command will forward the report along with the command recommendation to USAFMPC/DPMAJD, Randolph AFB TX 78148 for final determination.” [Para 2-29m, AFM 35-13, emphasis added] Why Did Bush Specifically Request NOT To Be Sent Overseas For Duty?
FACT: Bush’s Application Indicated Bush Did Not Volunteer for Overseas Duty. On Bush’s application to the 147th Fighter Group at Ellington Air Force Base in Texas, Bush was asked what his “Area Assignment Preferences” were. Bush checked the box beside “Do Not Volunteer” for overseas duty. [Application for Extended Duty With The United States Air Force, 5/27/68] Why Does The White House Say Bush Was On Base When Bush’s Superiors Had Filed A Report Saying He Was Gone For A Whole Year?
FACT: Bush’s Superiors Were Unable to Evaluate Him for a Full Year, Saying he “Has Not Been Observed at This Unit…”
May 2, 1973: Bush’s superior officers William D. Harris Jr. and Jerry B. Killian, wrote on his yearly evaluation form, “Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of report,” and that a “civilian occupation made it necessary for him to move to Montgomery, Alabama. He cleared this base on 15 May 1972 and has been performing equivalent training in a non flying status with the 187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama.” [AF-77, 2 May 73, emphasis added]
…But the White House Claims Bush was on Base the Same Day Superiors Filed Report.
White House release says Bush was paid on May 2, 1973, the very day his superiors reported that “Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of report.” [2nd Q 1973 pay record]
FACT: Bush’s Superior Officer Says He Would Have Known If Bush Had Reported for Duty.
November 12, 1973: Rufus G. Martin signed a report on Bush’s evaluation, saying Bush was “Not rated for the period 1 May 72 through 30 April 73.” [AF-77a, 12 Nov 73, emphasis added]
Boston Globe: “But retired colonel Martin, the unit's former administrative officer, said he too thought Bush had been in Alabama for that entire year. Harris and Killian, he said, would have known if Bush returned to duty at Ellington.” [Boston Globe, 5/23/00, emphasis added]
Why Is The Pentagon Under Orders Not To Discuss Bush’s Record With Reporters?
FACT: Freedom of Information Officers Under Orders From Senior Pentagon Officials To Ignore Requests on Bush Files. According to the Spokane Spokesman-Review, “at the National Guard Bureau, now headed by a Bush appointee from Texas, officials last week said they were under orders not to answer questions. The bureau's chief historian said he couldn't discuss questions about Bush's military service on orders from the Pentagon. ‘If it has to do with George W. Bush, the Texas Air National Guard or the Vietnam War, I can't talk with you,’ said Charles Gross, chief historian for the National Guard Bureau in Washington, D.C. Rose Bird, Freedom of Information Act officer for the bureau, said her office stopped taking records requests on Bush's military service in mid-February and is directing all inquiries to the Pentagon. She would not provide a reason. Air Force and Texas Air National Guard officials did not respond to written questions about the issue. James Hogan, a records coordinator at the Pentagon, said senior Defense Department officials had directed the National Guard Bureau not to respond to questions about Bush's military records.” [Spokane Spokesman-Review, 3/14/04, emphasis added] |
Now I ask you, if Bush had a page like this on his website, Kerry would be crying bloody murder, SBVT connections etc., etc., etc., yet a series of questions like this, no doubt repeated for months on every Kerry backing site, 527 or otherwise, elicits no reaction, not even from Bush!!
How about this: (Chicago Sun Times, 2/9/04)
http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-viet09.html
Note the truly hypocritical statements that I have boldfaced. I wonder if any of those questions will be put to him?
| Quote: | RICHMOND, Va. -- John Kerry, a decorated Vietnam veteran and Democratic presidential front-runner, questioned Sunday whether President Bush had fulfilled his Vietnam-era commitment to the National Guard.
''Just because you get an honorable discharge does not in fact answer that question,'' the Massachusetts senator said.
Kerry insisted he was not making a political issue of Bush's Vietnam-era service, saying he had no trouble with the ''many people'' like Bush who served in the Guard to reduce the odds of seeing combat in Vietnam.
But he responded sharply to Bush's claim in a nationally televised interview that his honorable discharge from the National Guard should answer lingering questions about the president's service.
''The issue here, as I have heard it raised, is was he present and active on duty in Alabama at the times he was supposed to be? I don't have the answer to that question,'' said Kerry, who won three Purple Hearts, one Bronze Star and one Silver Star in Vietnam.
Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard in 1968 and spent most of his service time based near Houston. In May 1972 he requested and received a three-month assignment with the Alabama National Guard so he could serve as political director on the Senate campaign of Winton ''Red'' Blount, a family friend.
Retired Gen. William Turnipseed, a commander at the base Bush was assigned to, has said he never saw Bush appear for duty. Bush, however, says he remembers meeting Turnipseed and performing drills at the base.
Nearly 200 pages of Bush's military records released by the National Guard Bureau contain no evidence that Bush reported for drills in Alabama.
Bush dismissed Democratic criticism of his Guard record. ''Political season is here,'' he said.
''There may be no evidence, but I did report; otherwise, I wouldn't have been honorably discharged," he said.
Kerry said: ''I've said since the day I came back from Vietnam that it was not an issue to me if somebody chose to go to Canada or to go to jail or to be a conscientious objector or to serve in the National Guard or elsewhere," he said.
''I honor that service, but that's not the issue here," he said.
Republicans have suggested that any criticism of Bush is a slight against the National Guard. Kerry objected to that notion.
''Today's Guard is a very different Guard from the one that existed in 1968, '67 and '69. Anybody who lived in those periods of time will tell you that there were many people who chose to go to the Guard because the odds of being called up and going to Vietnam were very low. And that's just the truth,'' Kerry said.
Kerry said it was OK to choose service in the Guard over service in Vietnam, ''but when you make your choice, people have an obligation to at least live out the choice they make.'' AP |
Seems like Kerry couldn't try to smack the President enough!!
So, Mr. O'Reilly, what about these?
_________________
Everytime he had a choice, Kerry chose to side with communists rather than the United States. |
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drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the further links. This is the letter I sent to comments@foxnews.com and cc'ed o'reilly:
At 12:55 pm EDT today on his show O'reilly said that Kerry had not attacked Bush for his service record. It is an outright lie.
Proof:
RICHMOND, Va. -- John Kerry, a decorated Vietnam veteran and Democratic presidential front-runner, questioned Sunday whether President Bush had fulfilled his Vietnam-era commitment to the National Guard.
''Just because you get an honorable discharge does not in fact answer that question,'' the Massachusetts senator said.
Kerry insisted he was not making a political issue of Bush's Vietnam-era service, saying he had no trouble with the ''many people'' like Bush who served in the Guard to reduce the odds of seeing combat in Vietnam.
But he responded sharply to Bush's claim in a nationally televised interview that his honorable discharge from the National Guard should answer lingering questions about the president's service.
''The issue here, as I have heard it raised, is was he present and active on duty in Alabama at the times he was supposed to be? I don't have the answer to that question,'' said Kerry, who won three Purple Hearts, one Bronze Star and one Silver Star in Vietnam.
Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard in 1968 and spent most of his service time based near Houston. In May 1972 he requested and received a three-month assignment with the Alabama National Guard so he could serve as political director on the Senate campaign of Winton ''Red'' Blount, a family friend.
Retired Gen. William Turnipseed, a commander at the base Bush was assigned to, has said he never saw Bush appear for duty. Bush, however, says he remembers meeting Turnipseed and performing drills at the base.
Nearly 200 pages of Bush's military records released by the National Guard Bureau contain no evidence that Bush reported for drills in Alabama.
Bush dismissed Democratic criticism of his Guard record. ''Political season is here,'' he said.
''There may be no evidence, but I did report; otherwise, I wouldn't have been honorably discharged," he said.
Kerry said: ''I've said since the day I came back from Vietnam that it was not an issue to me if somebody chose to go to Canada or to go to jail or to be a conscientious objector or to serve in the National Guard or elsewhere," he said.
''I honor that service, but that's not the issue here," he said.
Republicans have suggested that any criticism of Bush is a slight against the National Guard. Kerry objected to that notion.
''Today's Guard is a very different Guard from the one that existed in 1968, '67 and '69. Anybody who lived in those periods of time will tell you that there were many people who chose to go to the Guard because the odds of being called up and going to Vietnam were very low. And that's just the truth,'' Kerry said.
Kerry said it was OK to choose service in the Guard over service in Vietnam, ''but when you make your choice, people have an obligation to at least live out the choice they make.'' AP
http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-viet09.html
It's bad enough how O'Reilly has smeared the Swift Vets without so much as a fair hearing but when he has the audacity to lie like this it is simply breathtaking. He diminishes the Fox News Channel and radio networks who carry him and badly tarnishes his own credibility. |
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GiveMeFreedom
PO3
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 279
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't hear his show today, so I won't respond to him, but I hope those that DID hear his show, responded with the facts and helped Mr. Bill with the TRUTH.
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Nomorelies
Vice Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 977
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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I'm mystified. Has O'Reilly been paid off?
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Nomorelies Make a donation HERE |
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Integrity
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 92
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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If O'Reilly really said that then he's dumber than he looks. There's no excuse when it's so easy to pull up the information above. Just amazing.
_________________
"What our enemies have begun, we will finish,"
- President George W. Bush |
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WalterW
Ensign
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 74
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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He seems to either be in a self-destruct mode right now...or he's playing some kind of game.
His ratings are holding well so maybe his focus group researchers are learning that his audience wants a softer tome on politics.
Then again maybe he wants an exclusive interview with Kerry/Edwards.
In any case, he's pissing off a lot of his loyal audience with his lack of integrity. |
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lrb111
Captain
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 508
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Nomorelies wrote: | | I'm mystified. Has O'Reilly been paid off? |
Probably wants to be the press guy for kerry, doing what McClellan and Fleisher has done for bush...
_________________
said Democratic Chairman Terry McAuliffe. "It is inexcusable to mock service and sacrifice."
well, when even the DNC can see it,,,,, then kerry is toast. |
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Daniel J. Hutchison
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 36
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:31 pm Post subject: National Guard Service |
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I find it very disturbing when some one claiming a political science education and to be quaified to serve as commander-in-chief knows so little about the most basic fundemental aspect of the United States of America. National Guard duty has never been a way to dodge military service; it is military service and is the very basic responsibility of every citizen of the United States. While not every one feels the obligation, the militia has always been the backbone and strength of the United States and is directly responsible for the establishment of the United States. Under the command of the individual states, the National Guard continues to provide protection for the citizens when called upon by the Governor. When called upon by the President of the United States, the National Guard has stepped up to the call with honor and left their civilian jobs and families to defend the country.
When someone joins the National Guard they make a commitment to maintain military skills and capabilities, ready to drop their civilian jobs and families and answer the call of either the Governor or the President. The National Guard is not a way of avoiding military service, as some would have us believe, but is military service that is the responsibility of all citizens. Many guard units were called upon for Vietnam just as they have been for all wars. The fact that President Johnson did not make a total call up of the National Guard was his decision and not the decision of those who had made themselves ready to answer the call. We also know that Vietnam was not the only threat facing the United States between 1960 and 1973. A look at the situation in the early 1960’s indicated that there was a real Cold War threat along our southern shores from the communists in Cuba and the USSR. Remember the Cuban missile crisis and Dominican Republic. Prior to 1965 very few citizens knew much about Vietnam, but were well aware of the threat and danger from Cuba. The Air National Guard was a vital part of the defense from the threat of the communists.
We must also remember that the National Guard is a part time reserve. The individuals serving in the National Guard give up many of their weekends, evenings, and vacation days to retain their military capabilities while also maintaining their civilian lives. The ones of us who have taken our responsibilities seriously and participated in the National Guard know that in between the essential military training and duty in response to the call of the Governor or the President, the guard members must fit in the activities that support their families and communities. Distorting National Guard service is a great disservice to the dictated citizen soldiers that have defended the United States for over two hundred years, and who form the very basic defense for the United States. President George Bush as a young Air National Guard Officer was not avoiding military service; he was in the military and would have answered the call of the President of the United States if such a requirement had been made. As Governor of Texas President George Bush also commanded the Texas National Guard.
The fact that he, as all members of the National Guard, continued to balance jobs, school, community service and family life into a part time military position is just the reality of service in the citizen militia. Because of the part time nature of the National Guard great effort is made by the command to accommodate the personnel needs of the soldiers to complete their civilian responsibilities to family and community within the limits of military preparedness.
In my years with the National Guard, frequently individuals required to be excused from the monthly drills or annual training because of their civilian responsibilities. The use of equivalent training is a method for individuals to receive pay for duty or training conduced at time or place other than the scheduled drill with the unit. Indiuiduals can also be excused from duty for extended time periods and yet remain as important members of the unit. Regardless of their civilian responsibilities National Guard members are subject to call up by either the Governor or the President in time of crisis.
All of the misinformed talk of AWOL, active duty days, dates of pay, days on base, and flight physicals justs shows the total lack of understanding of the government of the United States. I am now retired, however, I would much rather serve under a commander-in-chief who has commanded the National Guard as Governor and as President, than a senator who does not understand a fundemental aspect of the defense of the United States. |
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ASW Tech
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 16
Location: Newark, IL
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:40 am Post subject: I Think I'll Stay Safe and Fly F-102s?? |
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It absolutely astounds me that that the Kerry campaign is forwarding the notion (with some success) that flying F-102s in the Guard somehow constitutes "draft dodging". Quite aside from the fact that it is honorable service, I doubt that there is a more rigorous and inherently dangerous Guard or Reserve specialty than flying fighters, especially the Air Force hand-me-downs that the Guard was flying back then. Moreover, I wouldn't be surprised to discover that the per-capita risk involved rivals or surpasses a considerable proportion of the billets that DID exist in Nam.
Using the same logic, I suppose I would be considered a draft dodger because I joined the Navy when I turned 17 before I was eligible for the draft.
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VP-31/HSL-31/HSL-35 '70-'74 |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:02 am Post subject: |
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One interesting question that might be studied by someone with the time is how many days of military duty both Kerry and Bush had.
Additionally, a comparison, if possible of F-102 flight time (days) for Bush, vs. Kerry's 100 or so days on the rivers of Vietnam. Remember the Air Force called the F-102 both a "Lawn-Dart" and a "Widowmaker". Justifiably from what I've read.
Although the risks were much higher in Nam. I think the such a comparison might shed some light. I'd guess that Bush has 400 plus days in F-102s vs. Kerry's 100 days on Swifts.
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 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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neverforget
Vice Admiral
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 875
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| We used F-102's for MIG cover, flying out of Udorn, Thailand, until the NVA air force was destroyed. Then they went home, and then they went out of service. He probably should have been able to hop into an F-4 and flown it, though. Right, Kerry? |
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