SwiftVets.com

[mikest]

I posted this in a thread not realizing it was in the midst of a childish argument. So I am asking again in it's own thread.

I was going to thank the admin for re-instating my account, but looking at the conversation going on I'm not sure I should

I have a question though. This topic is about Kerry being an embarrassment, however there is no mention of the situation that the current admin has gotten us into. So far we have alienated most of our allies. We have gotten into a war that's planning was so poorly thought out that although we can win it we will have a left huge mess. Every justification for the war has been lost. Our military is stretched so thin that kids will be there for years with no visible light at the end of the tunnel. Generals have resigned because they were trashed for saying we needed 250,000 or more troops. Instead the admin gave us less than 130,000. Former allies have indicated that there could be help if we elect a new administration. We have German civilians protecting our bases in Germany because we don't have enough of our own troops there to do it ourselves.

Every day I look at the KIA list and pray my friends name's not there. He was supposed to come home next month but his tour has been extended indefinately. Every day some family has to see their kids name on the list when they were told the troops would be welcomed with flowers. And people like wolfowitz are looking at other countries like Iran and Syria as if we can go after them as well.

So why would you back Bush. Saying you don't is a cop out. Obviously there are two choices, Bush or Kerry. You dislike Kerry, I can see that and understand that many of you were hurt by him in the 70's. The only other choice is Nadar, and I'm pretty sure most of you would agree he would hurt the military more.

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

[mikest]

for the non answer. I expected it because you were in the middle of the childish argument before. To be fair to all people involved, it was someone from my side if the fence that started it.

I happen to know an aweful lot about the propaganda coming out of the Middle East. I have also spent a good deal of time in Indonesia. Thanks for the attempted slam though.

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

[mikest]

I'm not anti war. I'm anti this war at this time. I fully backed Afghanistan and would have been willing to back this war if President Bush had been honest about the reasons. We could have given more time to the inspectors and worked harder to build a coalition such as GHWB did. Instead we belittled the inspectors and the allies we had. Anyone paying attention to the statements coming out of the White House would have known they were false. Every statement that was made was checked by me and found wanting.

When it became clear that we were going to war, I wanted us to win. I listened to the claims that we only needed a small amount of troops and the assinine assumption that the Iraqi's would welcome us with open arms. I was blown away when Gen Shenseki(sp?) was ridiculed by wolfowitz on national TV. When Zinni left, I knew that we were in for a terrible time. I watched as the rioting broke out and was amazed when the admin said there was no way to know it would happen. I've seen Rumsfeld and others say they couldn't antisapate what is going on now. Most of my ex-military friends tell me that they always looked at every possibility.

[JasonBinPNW]

Why would i back Bush?

Because he's the only one of the three that is willing to do what needs doing.

Kerry wants the UN involved. Name a single place that the UN has EVER resolved a situation effectively? You can't, there are none. It took a single car bomb to drive them out of Iraq last time. Also, it is glaringly apparent that they had a direct hand in perpetuating the previous situation for thier own gain. Deny it till the cows come home, it doesn't change the reality as it exists, or is even perceived n the ME.

Right, wrong or indifferent in it's start, we have to deal with the reality that the war is happening, not that it "shouldn't have happened" and the guy who is going to do that best in my opinion is President Bush.

That is the first and last endorsement of Mr. Bush that I will ever post on this site.
_________________
Semper Fi!

Jason

Proud member of "The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy"

[mikest]

[Wondering]

Voting Bush.

He is the only one who will take on the task that needs to be done in my opinion. Also in my opinion, the current war in Iraq was part of the larger war on terror. Al Qaeda is not the only front. As for the reasons going in; just about everyone thought the WMD existed, even our non-allies. The reasons why the non-allies were against going in were for their own financial and political gains, few if any opposed it for any other reason.

I sit in the middle. I am not religious, so some of the things Bush says or does on that end bug me. But he is in office to do what he feels is right, not what the latest Gallup poll says. So you take the good with the bad. As far as I see it, Bush has done much more right then wrong. Bush comes across to me as a man of great morals, where Kerry comes off as a man with little or no morals.

Kerry seems to never take a solid stand on any issue. Just listening to his speeches you can hear him contradict himself over and over. Some of the other Democrates running would have made fine Presidents, Kerry is not one of them.

[Wondering]

[mikest]

[War Dog]

I'm voting for President Bush. I was a Democrat until the last four years of President Clinton. At that point, my fellow democrats and liberals began to sicken me with their blind defense of President Clinton. I detest the mudslinging on both sides. I detest dirty politics, and negative TV ads. I would truly like to see all candidates run on their political positions on current and future issues only. Let them leave the past in the past.

I voted for Bush in the election because I did not like, nor could I support some of the outlandish politics of Al Gore. I will vote for President Bush this November only because I believe he has the balls to do what must be done in this war on terrorism. I feel he sincerly cares about this nation, and the people in it, and deep in his heart, he is trying to do the right thing.

Has President Bush and his administration made mistakes? Yep, sure have, and I disagree with many of the policies of the Bush Administration concerning the current policy on immigration, world economy, World Trade Organization, the UN, treatment of Veterans, the current war in Iraq, among others. But, of the two candidates, I believe he is the best choice.

As for Senator John F. Kerry, I have no respect for him whatsoever. I am a Vietnam Veteran, and served one year with the 388th Security Police Squadron as a Military Dog Handler (K9) from December 71 to December 72. I did my job, I protected the base perimeter, and all the equipment, aircraft, ammo dumps, fuel farms, and Air Force personnel within my base. I handled two dogs, Sarge 617X a sentry dog, and Blackie X850 a patrol dog. I worked on post seven out of nine nights from sundown to sunup. I'm proud of what I did over there, and of my fellow Vietnam Veterans that served in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and on the US Navy ships and planes offshore. I'm proud of everybody that did their jobs in the Vietnam War Combat/Support Zones, including those that did and didn't serve in actual combat! I did not kill anyone, maim anyone, rape anyone, participate in any atrocities. I did my job!

It took everybody to get the job done, and each and everyone of us have nothing to be ashamed of. We went, we did our jobs to the best of our abilities, and the majority of us came home in one piece. Many of our fellow Vietnam Veterans did not come home at all, or came home with pieces missing. But one thing is certain, each and every one of that physically made it back to "The World" came home with mental and emotional problems. We all have our own baggage, and skeletons in our closets. The Vietnam War was hell on each and everyone of us.

I experienced the hatred, the name calling from many here back in the "good ol" USA before I went overseas to SEA, and when I returned. I saw people treated badly, disrespected, abused, refused jobs. I saw people shun them when they learned that they were Vietnam Veterans. I have been shunned, and lost a girlfriend when her parents learned I had just returned. To them, I was a potential nutcase, a crazed firecracker just waiting to go off. The picture painted by not only John F. Kerry, but others like Jane Fonda, Tom Hayden, Abbie Hoffman, General Ramsey Clark was not a pretty one, and gave a large portion of the American Public the opinion that all Vietnam Veterans killed, maimed, raped, committed atrocities, etc.

I like many other Vietnam Veterans learned to keep my mouth shut, and to not tell anyone that I had served. In 1979, I went back into the service, the US Navy this time, and served 16 years with a tour in the first Gulf War from August 1990 to April 1991 over in the Gulf. Because of my Air Force record and career, I was 'volunteered' to train the boarding party on board, and we were the first US Navy ship to do 100 merchant interdiction boardings. I retired with 20+ years of honorable service in 1995.

I have alot of problems with what John Kerry did. I do respect him and give him credit for serving in the US Navy, and in Vietnam. It's what he did after he returned to the US that I have a problem with. What he did in his anti-war years I will never forgive him for, as I will never forgive those other anti-war people above.

Many on this board have critcized those that are standing up and speaking their minds against John F. Kerry. It is their right as American's to do just that, and as Vietnam Veterans, it's something that all Vietnam Veterans should do. The years of us keeping our mouths shut is way past. It's time for all of us to stand up and speak our minds on this issue. If you believe that John F. Kerry is unfit to be Commander-in-Chief, then that is your right. If you disagree, and support John F. Kerry for President, than that is your right also.

But we all should stop the attacks on each other, the attacks on those who we disagree with. Our nation has too many problems facing us, including the war against terrorism for all of us to be fighting each other this way. Will this change any of you? Nope, it won't. But I said my piece!

War Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.

When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit."

[mikest]

Wardog

I was too young to really understand what was happening in Viet Namn. I was born in 65 and only have vague recollections of the end of that war. I have no doubt that the vast majority of the soldiers served honerably and well. I have quite a few friends that served there as well. I think that Senator Kerry overstated hsi case against the war, and he has said as much as well. But there were things done in that war, just as every war ever fought, that people needed to know. That does not take away from the fact that people like you deserved respect they never got. I asked my mother about this a few years ago when I kept hearing people say it never happened. She confirmed it and said it was disgusting when it happened. I'm sorry so many of you went through that hell and fight to make sure that never happens again.

I disagree with your point about the war on terrorism. This war will not be fought by attacking nations, especially ones without ties to terrorists like Al Queda, but will need stronger allied support. These groups are in every area of the world and are too moble to fight conventionally. And by becomming bogged down in wars like Iraq, we give them too much free reign. Had we stayed the course in Afghanistan and finished that job, we would be in a better position to take the next steps needed.

Someone upthread said that we can't think about the fact that Iraq may have been wrong. I disagree because we have to look at someones record in order to make an informed decision regarding our future. There are very few things I can find that were done well. About the only thing I see is what General Franks did. I have wanted to be wrong so badly because we are in this war and it must be won. I fear that the admin has done so many things wrong that our window is closing. Maybe kicking Chalabi out in public is a start, but I don't see cheney doing that.

Again, I am sorry you and so many others did not get the resoect you deserved. You have mine now. Thank you for your comment and the respectfull way you made it. It would be nice if we could get the whole country to act the same way.

[carpro]

Well said War Dog.

Mike, the reason you haven't heard much about Iraq in this forum is because it doesn't have anything to do with with how we feel about Kerry. We don't trust him. His history says he turned his back on the troops once before and, likely as not, he'll do it again if given a chance.

Iraq is like Vietnam in only one way. Militarily, we can't be beaten in Iraq. We can only be beaten here at home by our very own self-serving politicians. Ted Kennedy is already leading the charge, giving hope to our enemies that, if they can stall the process of freedom for the Iraqi people, we'll eventually cut and run. This endangers the life of your friend just like Kerrys actions in 1971 endangered the lives of many of us.

I hope your friend makes it.
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

[sparky]

You're not hearing much about Iraq in this forum because it's a quagmire and it's turning into a complete and utter debacle. Our former allies now fear us and according to polls, consider us a threat to world peace. Our soldiers are being shown all over the Arab world with naked stacks of Iraqis. At least one hostage has been taken.

And we're breeding legions of Al Queda terrorists who want to help Bin Ladin when they grow up.

Conservatives, who ordinarly feel the need to defend Bush, don't want to get into the nitty gritty.

[mikest]

Carpro

you are wrong. The only way we are going to get a grip on Iraq is if we have another 100,000 troops, and there is no way Bush will spend that kind of political capital. I wish you were right, but there are far too many people and places to hide.

Blame whoever you want but this admin did not listen to the people who knew what they were talking about. Instead they listened to the people who told them what they wanted to hear.